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dulcissima
Guest
And Augusta, sometimes nothing puts you in the mood like actually having sex. And the lots of practice thing is good. It sounds like you both need to be willing to be vulnerable.
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DrPiano
Guest
Hey Augusta,
I’ve been following your threads and praying for you both (and working my way through Holy Sex myself). I had one question and a few seconds on suggestions for you.
It seems like there’s some debate over whether you love your husband, and I think it centers on the definition of love. I think you might have a very different definition of love than some people here do (and to me it sounds more like you equate love with sexual desire). So… maybe you could help clear this up. How do you define love, particularly in this context? How are others defining it?
My suggestions (mostly an “I agree with the other posters”).
I’ve been following your threads and praying for you both (and working my way through Holy Sex myself). I had one question and a few seconds on suggestions for you.
It seems like there’s some debate over whether you love your husband, and I think it centers on the definition of love. I think you might have a very different definition of love than some people here do (and to me it sounds more like you equate love with sexual desire). So… maybe you could help clear this up. How do you define love, particularly in this context? How are others defining it?
My suggestions (mostly an “I agree with the other posters”).
- Read Holy Sex TOGETHER. Perhaps not out loud (although that might work too), but at least keep pace and discuss at regular intervals. If you’ve already finished it, go back and do it again with him. There are so many activities and exercises in there and a lot of them are designed to get you both talking. Maybe it would provide an opportunity for you to not only express how you’d like him to seduce you AND begin to teach him ways to do that.
- Go out and have fun. Really date each other again. Find an activity you both already enjoy or try out something new. Is there an activity he’s been hankering to try out? One maybe you’ve been looking at? Look for some cheap dancing lessons, go out and play in the snow, go ice skating, try a local museum… Maybe you can sit down together and each make a list of “activities [in our financial reach] that I’d like to try” and then take turns picking one from each list.
- See if you can get your hands on a copy of “For Better Forever” - also by Greg Popcak. Since you like Holy Sex so much, there may be some other good advice in there (as well as some good teaching on what marriage is, and what you can/can’t expect). Read that one TOGETHER too.
- DEFINITELY get that game! Open a bottle of wine, put on something sexy, and try it out. I struggle with having that sort of desire with my husband a LOT but there’s nothing like playing a good warm up game while wearing lingere to get me more in the mood.
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GoBison
Guest
There’s some half rate hockey team coming to town this weekend that you might want to watch. Might be a good time to just hang out and watch the game on tv. If not I’ll take your husband out drinking.
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Augusta_Sans
Guest
LOL. More like THE BEST HOCKEY TEAM IN THE WORLD. You are just jealous your college’s hockey team is a joke.
I seriously might actually put you in touch with him anyway–he could use a drinking buddy who understands what he’s been through.
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Liberanosamalo
Guest
What you did took courage.
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FrenchGwen
Guest
Hello Augusta
I read this update carefully and I will just add a few points…
To me it seems very promising !
Of course I understand your disheartenment : you expected very much from Retrouvaille, and you got it. BUT not like you expected : you thought it would solve the problems… and it didn’t. Yet the point of Retrouvaille was of showing you that problems, whatever they are, can be solved. You’ll need TIME.
) said: you need to relax.
I can perfectly understand you, because I would be the one to be impatient too, especially regarding our “progresses” in the sexual field. Since I have really accepted that we have YEARS ahead of us to become the best lovers ever
, and that, in 20 years, the time we will have needed won’t seem so much, it has taken such a stress from me !!
Take it easy, allow for some (much) time !
You’re on the way, Augusta. Just because right now the climb is a bit hard and the sun keeps hiding doesn’t mind the whole pilgrimage is not worth it !!
I read this update carefully and I will just add a few points…
To me it seems very promising !
Of course I understand your disheartenment : you expected very much from Retrouvaille, and you got it. BUT not like you expected : you thought it would solve the problems… and it didn’t. Yet the point of Retrouvaille was of showing you that problems, whatever they are, can be solved. You’ll need TIME.
That’s why I wanted to highlight this: it’s ONLY been a month, Augusta ! What is a month compared to the 2 whole years you’ve been apart ?! Its taking time is perfectly normal, so, yes, as… ??? (I forgot who
) said: you need to relax.I can perfectly understand you, because I would be the one to be impatient too, especially regarding our “progresses” in the sexual field. Since I have really accepted that we have YEARS ahead of us to become the best lovers ever
, and that, in 20 years, the time we will have needed won’t seem so much, it has taken such a stress from me !!Take it easy, allow for some (much) time !
Augusta… he’s a man. Here again I fully understand you. I’ve needed soooo much time to accept that DH wouldn’t guess what I needed, that he would’nt take hints (because he’s a man), but that he needed
- a checklist
- frequent reminders of the different items figuring on said checklist
It’s really difficult to accept, especially when it concerns intimacy matters, because it asks so much simplicity and truth, and you have to “unveil” yourself and be vulnerable. But it’s necessary… and fruitful !!
I second this one, too ! Enjoy time together ! Go walking, bowling, to the movies, visit expositions, museums, go to the theater, the opera, do things you’ve never done !First: SO true. Second: LOL.
GoBison: I agree that the “failed relationship” talk is always on the tip of our tongues. It’d be good to do some activities where we could just have fun. We’ve started going to dinner and movies together again, and those are always good nights. I hate to say it, but maybe we need to deplete the bottles of wine gathering dust on the wine rack and just see where things go.
You’re on the way, Augusta. Just because right now the climb is a bit hard and the sun keeps hiding doesn’t mind the whole pilgrimage is not worth it !!
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MtnDwellar
Guest
A lot of people are trying to help. That is great. I sat down this morning and skimmed the post. Is one of the top recommendations like the Jimmy Buffet song, “Why don’t we get drunk and screw?”
Hard to believe.
Can we say that your relationship is lacking intimacy? Sex is not intimacy. Drunken sex is definitely not intimacy. Not to say that I have never tried to find intimacy that way - from the tests that I have conducted, the feeling afterward is worse. I think that patience is the key. Things will happen without “alcohol lubrication” or they will not.
Good men are not easy to find. It sounds like you have found a good man.
Hard to believe.
Can we say that your relationship is lacking intimacy? Sex is not intimacy. Drunken sex is definitely not intimacy. Not to say that I have never tried to find intimacy that way - from the tests that I have conducted, the feeling afterward is worse. I think that patience is the key. Things will happen without “alcohol lubrication” or they will not.
Good men are not easy to find. It sounds like you have found a good man.
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zz912
Guest
Augusta, have you offered to let him read this or your previous thread? It seems you open up more with the online community that with him. It may be a good way for him to see it from your perspective. I would suggest you be as open with him as you are with this online forum.
As for him, there comes a point when he need to shake off the hurt and get back in the saddle. He’s a man and needs to act like it. To be fair, he may not have had great role models. But it seems to me like he needs to use some of his God-given testosterone and take the lead here.
As for him, there comes a point when he need to shake off the hurt and get back in the saddle. He’s a man and needs to act like it. To be fair, he may not have had great role models. But it seems to me like he needs to use some of his God-given testosterone and take the lead here.
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whatevergirl
Guest
*Men have emotional needs also…they can get hurt too.
It’s not ‘‘unmanly’’ for Augusta’s husband to be a little skittish right now…I agree that if he wants it to work, he needs to step up, but it seems like he has been, at least from my vantage point here. It sounds like he is very patient and willing to make things work, but he has been hurt, and he is right to have concerns and feel a little guarded. I don’t blame him for that, but if Augusta and he wish to make things work, yes it will take two.I agree with Mt Dwellar’s comments to you, Augusta–and Liberano’s suggestions. I might be hesitant to show your husband some of these comments, because there is an implication of needing alcohol in order to have sex with him
… Wine definitely helps us to relax, but reading it from his vantage point, he might take that in the wrong way.Again, you and he are in my prayers…I hope you both can reconcile.*
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Liberanosamalo
Guest
There is a difference between drunken sex and a few glasses of wine to unlock years of built up inhibitions and awkwardness. In vino veritas.
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Sure
Guest
First off, you are in my prayers.
I also support the posters who have called on you both to have a few drinks and allow your bodies to communicate. Many good relationships are assisted by wine.
However, I think the only way that works - the only way he will allow that level of intimacy, is if he knows you are back for good, forever, and that you will love him until the day you die. A man (I would know) needs to know that his wife is totally committed. He probably needs to hear you say that you will never, ever leave him no matter what. I think if I was in his shoes I would be waaay too scared to physically (sexually) say “I am totally yours, forever” if there was a chance that 2 weeks later you would say “it’s just not working.” Don’t have sex with him unless you are his forever, otherwise you are lying to him.
If you love him (not feel like you love him), it’s time for you to go all in. If you don’t love him and cannot make a life-long, 100% commitment, walk away and never speak to him or see him again.
Of course, that’s just my internet guy opinion.
God bless you
I also support the posters who have called on you both to have a few drinks and allow your bodies to communicate. Many good relationships are assisted by wine.
However, I think the only way that works - the only way he will allow that level of intimacy, is if he knows you are back for good, forever, and that you will love him until the day you die. A man (I would know) needs to know that his wife is totally committed. He probably needs to hear you say that you will never, ever leave him no matter what. I think if I was in his shoes I would be waaay too scared to physically (sexually) say “I am totally yours, forever” if there was a chance that 2 weeks later you would say “it’s just not working.” Don’t have sex with him unless you are his forever, otherwise you are lying to him.
If you love him (not feel like you love him), it’s time for you to go all in. If you don’t love him and cannot make a life-long, 100% commitment, walk away and never speak to him or see him again.
Of course, that’s just my internet guy opinion.
God bless you
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zz912
Guest
I didn’t say he couldn’t get hurt. What I said was at some point he needs to pick himself up, shake the dust off, and start taking some initiative to win and woo his wife. She has let him know that she is open and available to him, and at this point, he needs to be a man and be willing to be hurt again and try to win her back. She has let him know in blunt terms that he will not be rejected. Now’s the time for the young man to find his inner John Wayne.*Men have emotional needs also…they can get hurt too.
I agree with Mt Dwellar’s comments to you, Augusta–and Liberano’s suggestions. I might be hesitant to show your husband some of these comments, because there is an implication of needing alcohol in order to have sex with him
Again, you and he are in my prayers…I hope you both can reconcile.*
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Augusta_Sans
Guest
Honesty in a relationship is key. But full disclosure of every thought that passes through my mind is not healthy. Sometimes that level of disclosure is unnecessary and plants seeds of doubt that are more harmful than remaining a little under-informed.
An example: the first time we attended church with his family, his mother made a comment to her daughter about how inappropriate it was that he and I held hands during mass, the daughter repeated the comment to Dan, who repeated it to me. Now I cannot attend mass with them without feeling constantly insecure about her passing judgment on me. It was open/honest of him to share his mother’s comment with me, but I really wish he had kept it to himself.
Sharing this forum with him would open him up to a lot of unnecessary hurt. Does he need to know that my sex with the other man was incredible? Does he need to see the suggestions that we use “alcohol lubrication” to loosen up a little? (Though, I don’t see it as “get drunk and screw,” I see it as deciding (soberly) that we’re ready for sex, but “medicating” with a moderate amount of alcohol to take the edge off.)
“He’s a man and needs to act like it.” Men are not invincible and, the pain and rejection that I have put him through, I don’t think he’s being unmanly. If a guy gets kicked in the groin, it’s not unmanly for him to protect his groin from future kicks.
An example: the first time we attended church with his family, his mother made a comment to her daughter about how inappropriate it was that he and I held hands during mass, the daughter repeated the comment to Dan, who repeated it to me. Now I cannot attend mass with them without feeling constantly insecure about her passing judgment on me. It was open/honest of him to share his mother’s comment with me, but I really wish he had kept it to himself.
Sharing this forum with him would open him up to a lot of unnecessary hurt. Does he need to know that my sex with the other man was incredible? Does he need to see the suggestions that we use “alcohol lubrication” to loosen up a little? (Though, I don’t see it as “get drunk and screw,” I see it as deciding (soberly) that we’re ready for sex, but “medicating” with a moderate amount of alcohol to take the edge off.)
“He’s a man and needs to act like it.” Men are not invincible and, the pain and rejection that I have put him through, I don’t think he’s being unmanly. If a guy gets kicked in the groin, it’s not unmanly for him to protect his groin from future kicks.
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whatevergirl
Guest
*But, he didn’t leave her. She left him, and he has been willing to make it work, seeing that she wants to revive the marriage. If he walked out on her, yes, then he’d have to ‘‘woo’’ her. But, he does have to let his guard down a bit, because if it remains up, then it won’t work, that is something I agree with…but I don’t see how he needs to prove his love for her, he didn’t leave, and he seems willing to work on their marriage to get it back. The proof of his love is that he never stopped loving her, and seems willing to work on things with Augusta.
Ever feel Augusta like you’re standing in a room of people who are talking in and around you, ABOUT you? :ehh:
*
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whatevergirl
Guest
Honesty in a relationship is key. But full disclosure of every thought that passes through my mind is not healthy. Sometimes that level of disclosure is unnecessary and plants seeds of doubt that are more harmful than remaining a little under-informed.
An example: the first time we attended church with his family, his mother made a comment to her daughter about how inappropriate it was that he and I held hands during mass, the daughter repeated the comment to Dan, who repeated it to me. Now I cannot attend mass with them without feeling constantly insecure about her passing judgment on me. It was open/honest of him to share his mother’s comment with me, but I really wish he had kept it to himself.
Sharing this forum with him would open him up to a lot of unnecessary hurt. Does he need to know that my sex with the other man was incredible? Does he need to see the suggestions that we use “alcohol lubrication” to loosen up a little? (Though, I don’t see it as “get drunk and screw,” I see it as deciding (soberly) that we’re ready for sex, but “medicating” with a moderate amount of alcohol to take the edge off.)
“He’s a man and needs to act like it.” Men are not invincible and, the pain and rejection that I have put him through, I don’t think he’s being unmanly. If a guy gets kicked in the groin, it’s not unmanly for him to protect his groin from future kicks.
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Augusta_Sans
Guest
LOL, yes–but that’s what I came here for!*But, he didn’t leave her. She left him, and he has been willing to make it work, seeing that she wants to revive the marriage. If he walked out on her, yes, then he’d have to ‘‘woo’’ her. But, he does have to let his guard down a bit, because if it remains up, then it won’t work, that is something I agree with…but I don’t see how he needs to prove his love for her, he didn’t leave, and he seems willing to work on their marriage to get it back. The proof of his love is that he never stopped loving her, and seems willing to work on things with Augusta.
Ever feel Augusta like you’re standing in a room of people who are talking in and around you, ABOUT you? :ehh:
Even the comments that I disagree with force me to look at the situation from another perspective. I am even grateful for the people who say “there is no hope!” If not for those, I’d feel like the community was a Catholic conspiracy to keep bad marriages together.
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GoBison
Guest
So you hurt him before and he is unsure of what is going to happen in the future. Does anyone know what is going to happen tomorrow? Deep down you want him to act like a man and quit the poor me you hurt me in the past. Yeah he wants reassuarance that you won’t do it again. You can’t truthfully tell him that and even if you did he probably wouldn’t believe you.
How would you explain your husband a little insecure, shy, reserved. Probably the complete opposite of the guy that you described any girl would want to be with. Until he shows you qualities that you truly desire in a man not the ones that you feel you should desire (good guy) you will not feel attracted to him. You may love him and respect him but it will always be that brotherly love you described.
I bet you would wish that your husband would take the lead in getting you back to were you should be. Giving him a list of what he needs to do and telling him how he should clean his house doesn’t make him feel like a man.
Make him feel like a man. Let him lead you. Be submissive to him. Once he starts feeling manly again his instincts will take over and so will your attraction. I bet he hasn’t felt like a real man in a long time. Just because the last 50 years guys were told that they need to be more caring and show their feelings doesn’t mean that is what you really want. It has been thousands of years that women have looked for the man to lead them and take care of their family (not in the emotional way that is the wife) that basic instinct won’t go away in 50 years of the media telling you different.
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FrenchGwen
Guest
I do agree here
she found it inappropriate that you held hands in church ???!!! OMG…
Well, I will gladly confess that DH and I often do that, and that I see that as a gesture of love which is very appropriate. I even heard it as a counsel from a priest that was conjugal conselor, too: he said Catholic couples would greatly benefit from holding hands during the homily… and from keeping holding them even after leaving church.
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manualman
Guest
Wow, what a tough story. I admire your sincere repentence for the things you’ve done in the past that you know were sinful and wrong. Another poster touched on this, but got no comments, so I don’t know if you noticed.
Do you recognize why premarital sex is wrong in the first place? Many seem to presume it is just an activity on an arbitrary list of things christians aren’t allowed to do. NOT TRUE!!! Sins are sins because they DAMAGE you! Sins, by definition, damage our ability to give and receive love. Sound familiar? From your post, it sounds like you are sincerely repentent for your sexual sins and presumably you’ve been to confession to be forgiven for them. That’s a great start and gives you the grace to begin healing. But it isn’t an instant magic wand. Sex isn’t just pleasureable, its a binding of two people. You left a little of yourself with those guys and THEY left a little of themselves with you. That’s a problem because it DOES interfere with your ability to have a healthy sexual relationship with a good husband.
But let me be even more blunt. You will NEVER be truly happy if you go off and find the kind of guy that turns you on right now. He will always be a loser in the end that brings you far more pain than pleasure. You have to focus on getting healed of your self-inflicted wounds. Only then will you be able to have a healthy sexual relationship with a decent man. Until you get your soul healed, you won’t be able to have that with either your husband or ANY decent man. God have mercy on him, he’s a patient and forgiving man. Don’t waste any time, there comes a place where he will have to conclude that you don’t have any intention of overcoming your problems and that those problems were a defect that prevented you from giving valid consent in the first place.
Do you recognize why premarital sex is wrong in the first place? Many seem to presume it is just an activity on an arbitrary list of things christians aren’t allowed to do. NOT TRUE!!! Sins are sins because they DAMAGE you! Sins, by definition, damage our ability to give and receive love. Sound familiar? From your post, it sounds like you are sincerely repentent for your sexual sins and presumably you’ve been to confession to be forgiven for them. That’s a great start and gives you the grace to begin healing. But it isn’t an instant magic wand. Sex isn’t just pleasureable, its a binding of two people. You left a little of yourself with those guys and THEY left a little of themselves with you. That’s a problem because it DOES interfere with your ability to have a healthy sexual relationship with a good husband.
But let me be even more blunt. You will NEVER be truly happy if you go off and find the kind of guy that turns you on right now. He will always be a loser in the end that brings you far more pain than pleasure. You have to focus on getting healed of your self-inflicted wounds. Only then will you be able to have a healthy sexual relationship with a decent man. Until you get your soul healed, you won’t be able to have that with either your husband or ANY decent man. God have mercy on him, he’s a patient and forgiving man. Don’t waste any time, there comes a place where he will have to conclude that you don’t have any intention of overcoming your problems and that those problems were a defect that prevented you from giving valid consent in the first place.
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Augusta_Sans
Guest
Yes, now I do. I always knew it was harmful in some way, but reading Holy Sex! helped me understand the specifics (not just morally/emotionally but the actual chemical reactions that happened/didn’t happen.) I wish that I had read Holy Sex! as a teenager (in fact, there are pages that I will have my children read when we do the “sex talk.”)
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