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Mom_of_one
Guest
Exactly! Which is why I said to pray and ask God. And then to do it. This isn’t about making him change. This is about fostering the best environment for change to occur, if he is so inclined to do so.
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felra
Guest
vern humphrey:
Your responses are beginning to sound like a broken record. Yes, we hear you message loud and clear:
The OP can only control her own behavior. She needs to develop a strategy to break this confrontational cycle. The best approach is love and prayer.
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I agree with this poster’s assessment:
I think vern’s idea that “love and prayer” will solve the problem is oversimplistic.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
And the idea that the problem can be solved WITHOUT love and prayer is patently false.
If this marriage is to be saved, the OP must change her tack. The change must rely heavily on love and prayer.
This is, after all, a Catholic forum – and in the Catholic church, we teach love, believe in the efficacy of prayer, and abhor divorce.
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thestickman
Guest
I suggest as much time in the Real Presence of Christ as is reasonably possible for the wife and preferrably the husband as well, if he will come.
I’ve learned bringing yourself to Christ in a Adoration Chapel and offering whatever the issue is up to him and asking for guidance if nothing else, will leave you in a less angry state of mind and assist you when you speak with your spouse.
I would also advise the woman who began this thread to forgive her husband. Tell him she forgives him. Then, and I mean this sincerely, whenever you think he’s watching porn, I GO TO HIM!!! Take him by the hand and ask him to hold you. If he won’t, stand behind him and pray a Rosary for him. I can’t imagine any man being able to continue watching porn/masturbating while a Rosary is being said.
Vern is right, love and prayer is the answer!
I’ve learned bringing yourself to Christ in a Adoration Chapel and offering whatever the issue is up to him and asking for guidance if nothing else, will leave you in a less angry state of mind and assist you when you speak with your spouse.
I would also advise the woman who began this thread to forgive her husband. Tell him she forgives him. Then, and I mean this sincerely, whenever you think he’s watching porn, I GO TO HIM!!! Take him by the hand and ask him to hold you. If he won’t, stand behind him and pray a Rosary for him. I can’t imagine any man being able to continue watching porn/masturbating while a Rosary is being said.
Vern is right, love and prayer is the answer!
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Princess_Abby
Guest
Hi Vern.
I do think that only saying “love and prayer” as the answer to the OP’s problem is overly simplistic. I did not in any way, shape or form say that the OP should avoid “love and prayer,” just that it is not concrete enough to give her an action to follow through upon.
Could you share exactly what love and prayer translates into as concrete actions?
I haven’t heard any concrete solutions from you that aren’t abstract in nature. “Abhor divorce,” “love and prayer,” “change tactics” etc.
Also, specifically what should she change her tactic to? Lying ready in her marriage bed while her husband uses pornography as foreplay and waiting to receive him “in love” as he uses her body for gratification purposes–after looking at other women to become aroused?
Could you show me in the Catechism where the Church indicates we must be stripped of dignity if our spouse needs a place to orgasm? I do know that the Church demands each sexual act in marriage to be both love-giving and life-giving. If her husband is looking at porn before coming to her, then the first criteria is automatically missing.
I do think that only saying “love and prayer” as the answer to the OP’s problem is overly simplistic. I did not in any way, shape or form say that the OP should avoid “love and prayer,” just that it is not concrete enough to give her an action to follow through upon.
Could you share exactly what love and prayer translates into as concrete actions?
I haven’t heard any concrete solutions from you that aren’t abstract in nature. “Abhor divorce,” “love and prayer,” “change tactics” etc.
Also, specifically what should she change her tactic to? Lying ready in her marriage bed while her husband uses pornography as foreplay and waiting to receive him “in love” as he uses her body for gratification purposes–after looking at other women to become aroused?
Could you show me in the Catechism where the Church indicates we must be stripped of dignity if our spouse needs a place to orgasm? I do know that the Church demands each sexual act in marriage to be both love-giving and life-giving. If her husband is looking at porn before coming to her, then the first criteria is automatically missing.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
None of us is qualified to give a detailed answer – we are not personally acquainted with either the OP or her husband. We can only make thematic suggestions. Those that have been offered fall into the following categories:
- Leave him permanently.
- Leave him temporarily.
- Keep doing what you’re doing, but do it harder.
- He has to change.
- Get counseling.
- Try love and prayer (which does not preclude Number 5, above.)
Actually, I proposed the start of an analysis:
- Determine what your goal is (I suggested "to have a long, happy marriage.)
- Determine if your present course of action is working.
- Remember you can only change your own behavior.
- Continue with this analysis – look at each incident. Ask, “What action triggered this incident?” If it was an act by the OP, she should ask, “What could I have done differently to prevent this from escallating?” If the OP can honestly say it was the husband’s act, she should look at her response to that act, and ask the same question.
She should make a list of the things they did before they were married, the places they went, the enjoyable times they had, and suggest to her husband they take time to revisit those places.
She should seek counseling – and as has been pointed out by others, if he husband won’t go, she should go alone.
She should pray and implement her new course of action with love in her heart and a determination to live up to her marriage vows.
And, as I have also suggested, she should realize she’s playing catch-up. The marriage must be healed before any progress can be made. This means working on their relationship with each other, and putting everythings else on the back burner for now.
This is your imagination at work – she has not said this happens.
How is she “stripped of dignity?”
How do you know that is their particular mode of sex?
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NFPfamily
Guest
vern humphrey:
Dr. Phil? Is that you?
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NFPfamily
Guest
In all seriousness, I do think love and prayer are vital- and I don’t think there is anyone here who thinks that isn’t an important part of resolving this matter. However, there is more to be done as well. Maybe the steps already taken haven’t been successful, but that’s okay. It’s time to move on and find something else to try. Praying is a good step, and God will open a door, but it is up to the OP to act on it. For any healing to be done in this marriage, it takes work on both sides. She alone cannot love and pray enough for her marriage to be miraculously fixed (although I do not underestimate that this is possible, I just believe in doing our part of the workload) without the support and effort of her husband. He has to want that change in his marriage. He needs to find out the true meaning of marriage and decide that he wants to be a part of it. Seminole, hang in there! Try to be as loving as possible and see if he is receptive to that. Ask him what his needs are (sex is probably going to be one of them) and tell him what your needs are. Tell him that it genuinely hurts you that he adulterizes instead of giving himself only to you. Tell him you need to feel that he loves and desires only you. I also think that finding a good Catholic counselor is a good idea to help you in finding ways to communicate more effectively.
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mariainman
Guest
I have been married for 28 years.My advice
- Take the new computer and put it in his car. Tell him you can not live in a house knowing their is sin going on in it.
2)Tell him it is your house and it is especially your bedroom.
3)Pray a Novena for him to over come his addiction
4)Change your behavior. Do not react to his harsh words.Instead calmly tell him Porn is not allowed in your house. - Do whatever it takes to get rid of the porn. Sell the computer, cancel the internet. Hide the moniter again.
- If he still fights you on this.Pray that you don’t fight back.Lock your bedroom door at night.
7)If he fights you.Leave the bedroom and sleep somewhere else.
8)Do not beg him for money.Tell him what you need and do not talk to him until he gives you the money you need.Be strong
9)You may have to go without sex but do not prostitute yourself.
10)When the pornograghy is out of your house let him back in your bedroom.
11)Do not let him win this one. You have God on yourside.
!2)If he continues to watch porn elsewhere. Pray but treat him as if he doesn’t.Encourage him with affection if he makes an effort.
13)Remember this is war. There is nothing more important than the sanctity of your home . Enlist the help of powerful Saints to do your battle for you.Pray consistently. Go to Mass.
14)If he becomes violent, leave.Continue to pray and expect a miracle.
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Ray_Scheel
Guest
vern humphrey:
You’ve let a few categories out (and I don’t see where anyone has actually proposed number 3 on your list).
- Start allowing herself to be used as a sex object even while her husband is witholding financial support while rubbing his porn use in her face. (Though only a couple of posters have taken a stance resembling this position)
- (Stating here the approximate position of the majority of the posters in these threads) Drop the controlling behaviors on her part (like hiding computer monitors or trying to lock him out) to try to work towards a change while preserving her dignity until such point that her husband starts to show signs that he’s no longer viewing her as just a sex object to be controlled among the other perversions in his life. (This position would really only exclude 3 and 7, while pretty much requiring numbers 5 and 6)
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Sasha
Guest
I feel sorry for the wife in this situation; however, I agree with Vern. In part, the reason I agree with him is that I could see myself doing exactly the same sort of things as Seminole Girl when I was in my early 20’s (and late 20’s probably as well) and I know first hand they don’t work. The first year or two that my husband and I were together we fought a lot (not like this, and not about porn) and I know that when I yelled, etc. we got NOWHERE. Over time, we stopped pushing each others buttons, and we have a wonderful marriage now (and again, I realize we didn’t have to deal with these same issues). The really frustrating thing was that I couldn’t seem to stop myself even though I knew it wasn’t working. The important thing, OP, if you will try to stop the cycle, is get through one incident at a time. Prayer should help a lot for this.
I do agree that the husband is doing some things here that are very wrong - any porn is terrible. However, I really do believe that the OP has made things much worse by locking him out of his house, hiding his monitor, and trying to control him. She is treating him like a child and he will rebel against that. We really don’t know if this man IS addicted to porn; I think there is a reasonable chance that he simply will not change because of the way she has reacted. I agree with Vern that she has to change tactics because this is NOT working. That doesn’t mean that I am certain that he will change if she does, but we know that her current actions aren’t changing him.
Also, for those who are saying that he is harming her by withholding money, we don’t know that. He may very well be providing ample money for food, etc. and we know he has provided a house. Perhaps she wants more money to go shoe shopping with her friends. We simply don’t know. I do know that when she originally posted, many people assumed he was physically abusing her, which was not true (her words). It is possible that he is starving her, but I think we are assuming way too much here.
I do agree that the husband is doing some things here that are very wrong - any porn is terrible. However, I really do believe that the OP has made things much worse by locking him out of his house, hiding his monitor, and trying to control him. She is treating him like a child and he will rebel against that. We really don’t know if this man IS addicted to porn; I think there is a reasonable chance that he simply will not change because of the way she has reacted. I agree with Vern that she has to change tactics because this is NOT working. That doesn’t mean that I am certain that he will change if she does, but we know that her current actions aren’t changing him.
Also, for those who are saying that he is harming her by withholding money, we don’t know that. He may very well be providing ample money for food, etc. and we know he has provided a house. Perhaps she wants more money to go shoe shopping with her friends. We simply don’t know. I do know that when she originally posted, many people assumed he was physically abusing her, which was not true (her words). It is possible that he is starving her, but I think we are assuming way too much here.
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StratusRose
Guest
Does anyone else feel that this thread is spiraling downward? I see a lot of bickering going on, but no real words of encouragement for the OP. She will discern whose advice to take from this post. Be it love and prayer, or hiding computer screens. The ball is in her court, she knows WAY more about the situation that we do. Lets stop speculating about what may or may not be going on, and try to support our friend. 
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mariainman
Guest
People , this is a respect issue not a control issue. Any woman must demand respect in her house. No one deserves to be degraded this way. For examle: If your husband wanted to have an affair , Are you going to allow him to bring another woman into your house? I think not. Are you going to be pleasant and ask him to go to conseling with you.Not your first thought. If my husband brought another woman into my house I would throw her out bodily. If he objected I would throw him out too.
Again, I have been married 28yrs. There are many things I let my husband be in control of(money for one).But in marriage , when two become one, the one who is morally stronger has to bring the other one up in any way she(he) can.She has the right to claim him as her husband and not share him with other woman real or cyber.
Again, I have been married 28yrs. There are many things I let my husband be in control of(money for one).But in marriage , when two become one, the one who is morally stronger has to bring the other one up in any way she(he) can.She has the right to claim him as her husband and not share him with other woman real or cyber.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
This is a** marriage** issue. Marriages are held together with love and prayer.
If you’ve been following the thread, you note that confrontation and demanding isn’t working.
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mariainman
Guest
vern humphrey:
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mariainman
Guest
vern humphrey:
I’ve been married a long time and I’ve raised 4 children to be good practising Catholics(save 1). I’ve been known to get the smut out of my house no matter who brings it in.I’ve tossed Cd’s and DVD’s into the garbage. I’ve erased programs on computers that are morally dangerous. I’ve not allowed movies on my TV that are over PG13. My teenage daughter follows suit and wacks her dad on the head if he is looking at the bra section of a magazine.We know how men are. My 21 year old son says"Mom you run a tight ship"And by the grace of God we haven’t gone off course yet.My mom ran her house the same way.She is 85 and my dad is 89,married 57 years. I can only advise what I know from my experience.
I don’t believe she should confront him anymore.I don’t think she should demand anything anymore. He knows what she wants. You are right. she should pray that she can love him and give the problem to God. But if she hears God telling her to get rid of the porn.She should.
I’ve been married a long time and I’ve raised 4 children to be good practising Catholics(save 1). I’ve been known to get the smut out of my house no matter who brings it in.I’ve tossed Cd’s and DVD’s into the garbage. I’ve erased programs on computers that are morally dangerous. I’ve not allowed movies on my TV that are over PG13. My teenage daughter follows suit and wacks her dad on the head if he is looking at the bra section of a magazine.We know how men are. My 21 year old son says"Mom you run a tight ship"And by the grace of God we haven’t gone off course yet.My mom ran her house the same way.She is 85 and my dad is 89,married 57 years. I can only advise what I know from my experience.
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wcknight
Guest
Folks who advocate withholding sex as a solution have to be wary of an additional problem. IF the husband is not having sex with his wife, he may turn to outside sources. So far she is dealing with porn and self gratification. That is bad enough. Toss in an affair or two and this marriage is essentially over.
Making love within a marriage is NOT using your partner as a sex object. Jesus instituted marriage as a sacrament, and making love is the major part of that sacrament. One of the main problem with this couple is that they are NOT making love enough. Five times within the first 4 months is a ridiculously low number.
If he is not getting good loving at home, pretty soon you can bet your house that he will be looking elsewhere at his first opportunity. Sex is a PRIMARY need like food or drink, and being isolated is similar to being starved to death. IF you want to run the risk of pushing your spouse into someone else’s arms, all you need to do is keep isolating him further.
You can be hard nosed from day one and if your spouse responds to that great, but this relationship needs repairs before it can move anywhere.
I think it is a huge mistake for any couple to use sex to get your way. It may have worked in your case and in your parents, but ask couples who break up or why some cheat, and you will find that many of them were not happy in their relationship with their former spouse.
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NFPfamily
Guest
If her husband chooses to commit adultery (which he already has with his mind) then that has nothing to do with Seminole Girl.For a woman to have to feel such emptiness and disgust, knowing she is easily replaced with a computer screen image, is terrible. I have never been in her shoes, but there is no way I could renew my marriage covenant with my husband if he treated me that way. When sex is just reduced to sex, then it is easily accessed by any means to gain selfish pleasure. When sex is a renewal of the marriage covenant, it is fulfilling to both spouses, which is what God intends. God doesn’t want SG to feel cheap and used. I don’t assume from reading her posts that she is dangling sex over his head- I take it as he is threatening her with it (if you don’t give it to me I’ll take care of it myself…etc.). It is difficult to see how the situation truly is in this type of forum, but she is here for support, so I think that is what she should get. The couple should get involved in counseling to help them pick this apart…oh yeah…and love and prayer
.
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Princess_Abby
Guest
Wow. IMO, this post utterly ignores the emotional and physical needs of the wife.
How can you call what this husband is asking his wife to do, “making love”? How is bartering for food and money in exchange for sex termed “making love”? How can a husband who commits adultery of his heart be “making love” to his wife after looking at porn? (And I don’t care if it was two minutes or two hours or two days before the marital act–if it is unconfessed and planned to be repeated, it is ongoing unfaithfulness.)
She asks for money. He says, only if you sleep with me. She replies, only if you stop masturbating to porn. He says, nevermind, I’ll go take care of it myself.
She has very reasonable and simple requests. His requests and refusals are outrageous.
Why is she out of line for requesting her husband stop looking at porn and participating in solitary sin, before she shares her body with him??? What woman should be expected to be merely a place for his orgasm? What woman in a Catholic marriage should come second to her husband’s porn addiction, all so she can exchange sex for money?
He chooses not to have “good loving at home” (sorry, that expression sort of makes me sick) because he refuses to stop using porn as his “PRIMARY” means of sexual release. If he wants regular sex with his wife, he needs to stop looking at porn and then maybe his desire to love and please her will be so great that he will only turn to her when in need. The implication that he is turning to porn because of something SHE has done is ridiculous. He chooses all of this and has the ability to choose HER over pornography. Seminole posted in her previous thread that he was doing this long before they were married and because pornography is a VERY SERIOUS SEXUAL ADDICTION, it continues after marriage as well, with him now believing it’s his right to have access to it.
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rayne89
Guest
Amen Abby!
A) he is not asking his wife to “make love” he asking his wife to prostitute herself -“I will give you money only if you sleep with me.”
B) He continues to look at porn. Maybe some guys really truly do not understand how devastating that can be to women. I have a friend who literally started vomiting immediately when she discovered he husband has used porn. Porn may not be a big deal to some guys but it HUGE to many women. It makes you feel ugly, unwanted and like just another whore to your husband.
This makes me so angry I could spit. Now it’s her fault if you porn using, masturbating husband cheats on her because she can’t bring herself to used as an outlet for his sexual gratification. MEN DO NOT DIE FROM NOT HAVING SEX. Guys in the military often are seperated from their spouses for long periods of time- you don’t see them all keeling over from blue b****. (Sorry-I know that’s kind of crass.) What about all the unmarried Catholic men called to chastity?
This couple needs major marriage counseling there is no doubt. And I’m sure both sides are partially responsible for this escalating to this point. But to claim she should just sacrifice what dignity she has left to be treated as a prostitute is absolutely offensive.
Ok I’m taking a deep breath now… sorry for the rant.
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