My First 4 Months of marriage

[vern_humphrey]

felra:

This simply begs the question, WHY WAS SHE REFUSING HER HUSBAND in good and prudent judgment?

You need to look up “begging the question.”

Begging the Question

Also Known as: Circular Reasoning, Reasoning in a Circle, Petitio Principii. Description of Begging the Question

Begging the Question is a fallacy in which the premises include the claim that the conclusion is true or (directly or indirectly) assume that the conclusion is true. This sort of “reasoning” typically has the following form.

1. 
   *]Premises in which the truth of the conclusion is claimed or the truth of the conclusion is assumed (either directly or indirectly).
   *]Claim C (the conclusion) is true.

1. 
   This sort of “reasoning” is fallacious because simply assuming that the conclusion is true (directly or indirectly) in the premises does not constitute evidence for that conclusion. Obviously, simply assuming a claim is true does not serve as evidence for that claim. This is especially clear in particularly blatant cases: “X is true. The evidence for this claim is that X is true.”
   When you say:
   

   WHY WAS SHE REFUSING HER HUSBAND in good and prudent judgment?

   That is begging the question. Your question is phrased so as to get us to accept that what she did was “good and prudent judgement.”
   
   And that is why I say this problem would exist if the porn problem never happened. The fighting is about who dominates who, and any excuse will serve.
   
   The solution is as I have outlined several times above.

 

[NFPfamily]

vern humphrey:

You need to look up “begging the question.”

When you say:

That is begging the question. Your question is phrased so as to get us to accept that what she did was “good and prudent judgement.”

And that is why I say this problem would exist if the porn problem never happened. The fighting is about who dominates who, and any excuse will serve.

The solution is as I have outlined several times above.

Respectfully, in your opinion, of course!

 

[vern_humphrey]

NFPfamily:

Respectfully, in your opinion, of course!

There is a list of possible solutions on this thread. Many of them seem calculated to destroy this marriage.

What I have listed is a coherent process by which it can be saved.

 

[wcknight]

NFPfamily:

You implied in your earlier post that the OP would be to blame if he strayed elsewhere. That is where I have a major problem with your viewpoint.

No I would never imply or say that someone who cheats is pushed into doing so, I merely indicated that this IS a possibility.

Anyone who cheats is still responsible for their own actions.

 

[char34]

Well if you’re not convinced it’s adultery, how about LUST? You didn’t care that that person was made in the image and likeness of God? You didn’t care that the person has human dignity? Sorry, but there is NO justification for pornography.

I am not justifying it, I already said it was sinful to look at and should be avoided. I do agree it involves lust. Yet I think it is different to get aroused by something you see or read than to actually fantasize about or desire someone else. Porn is not about being attracted to others, at least in my opinion. Many men (and women) do not even consider the actors particularly attractive. It is more like a drug which gives you a temporary high.

 

[felra]

vern humphrey:

You need to look up “begging the question.”

When you say:

That is begging the question. Your question is phrased so as to get us to accept that what she did was “good and prudent judgement.”

And that is why I say this problem would exist if the porn problem never happened. The fighting is about who dominates who, and any excuse will serve.

The solution is as I have outlined several times above.

Your avoidance of answering my question speaks more loudly than your circular reasoning.

 

[vern_humphrey]

felra:

Your avoidance of answering my question speaks more loudly than your circular reasoning.

1. You asked a loaded question:

This simply begs the question, WHY WAS SHE REFUSING HER HUSBAND in good and prudent judgment?

1. I answered it before you asked it:

In actuality, the way the OP presented it was refusal that came first, and the economic issue was a response, not a cause.

 

[NFPfamily]

Well if you’re not convinced it’s adultery, how about LUST? You didn’t care that that person was made in the image and likeness of God? You didn’t care that the person has human dignity? Sorry, but there is NO justification for pornography.

I am not justifying it, I already said it was sinful to look at and should be avoided. I do agree it involves lust. Yet I think it is different to get aroused by something you see or read than to actually fantasize about or desire someone else. Porn is not about being attracted to others, at least in my opinion. Many men (and women) do not even consider the actors particularly attractive. It is more like a drug which gives you a temporary high.

Would you not say that is looking at someone *lustfully? * That is exactly what the Bible says adultery is, hence my quote earlier. Besides, your point about porn not being about attraction to others, how many non-silicone barbie dolls do you hear about or see in porn? It’s all about attraction- physical only, and taking something as sacred as sex and making it animalistic and repulsive. The Church does view this as committing adultery.

 

[NFPfamily]

vern humphrey:

There is a list of possible solutions on this thread. Many of them seem calculated to destroy this marriage.

What I have listed is a coherent process by which it can be saved.

I’m sure others, including myself, feel the same about their posts. I think your solution of love and prayer is good, but there also needs to be some accountablilty on his part to save the marriage. Some action needs to be taken, and I don’t see how the multiple suggestions of Catholic marriage counseling could be calculated to destroy the marriage.

 

[felra]

1. You asked a loaded question:

1. I answered it before you asked it:

… you may want to concede on this one Vern that “I sunk your battle ship!”. :ehh:

 

[felra]

vern humphrey:

There is a list of possible solutions on this thread. Many of them seem calculated to destroy this marriage.

What I have listed is a coherent process by which it can be saved.

Unfortunately your formulated “coherent process” for creating change is missing a few key variables that left unattended will only demise the hope of this marriage getting established on the sure Rock foundation of Jesus Christ. Hint: Has to do with a lewd, pervasive, self-absorbing, addictive behavior and attitude.

Though, to your credit, the saving grace of your proposed process is this:

She should seek counseling – and as has been pointed out by others, if he husband won’t go, she should go alone.

 

[vern_humphrey]

NFPfamily:

I’m sure others, including myself, feel the same about their posts. I think your solution of love and prayer is good, but there also needs to be some accountablilty on his part to save the marriage.

Of course. Unfortunately, he isn’t posting here.

Therefore the only way to convey that to him is through the OP. Yet all the evidence indicates the relationship is highly confrontational – for her to simply say AT THIS TIME to him what you just said would almost certainly be counter-productive.

That’s why I keep saying love and prayer is the answer, and pointing out the marriage needs to be healed before progress can be made.

NFPfamily:

Some action needs to be taken, and I don’t see how the multiple suggestions of Catholic marriage counseling could be calculated to destroy the marriage.

I haven’t said suggestions of counseling are calculated to destroy the marriage – in fact, I’ve suggested it myself.

 

[vern_humphrey]

felra:

Unfortunately your formulated “coherent process” for creating change is missing a few key variables that left unattended will only demise the hope of this marriage getting established on the sure Rock foundation of Jesus Christ. Hint: Has to do with a lewd, pervasive, self-absorbing, addictive behavior and attitude.

This behavior analysis is only speculative, not proven. The husband isn’t posting here.

And even if your assessment were correct, you have no workable solution to dealing with his behavior.

 

[vern_humphrey]

felra:

… you may want to concede on this one Vern that “I sunk your battle ship!”.

Quite the contrary. Although in reinforcing the OP’s tendency to confrontation, you may have sunk here battleship and her marriage.

 

[felra]

This behavior analysis is only speculative, not proven. The husband isn’t posting here.

But, I am confident that I have (along with other posters) identified, first things first, in a heirarchy of issues that this husband brought into the marriage that have prevented this new marriage from getting firmly established on the foundation of Jesus Christ.

And even if your assessment were correct, you have no workable solution to dealing with his behavior.

I am not pretentious to offer “solutions” to a complex problem. I offer take it or leave it next step practical suggestions and interpretations.

 

[felra]

vern humphrey:

Quite the contrary. Although in reinforcing the OP’s tendency to confrontation, you may have sunk here battleship and her marriage.

Ouch! That was a below the belt punch. :tsktsk:

Time for the two of us to hang it up Vern and call it a day?

 

[vern_humphrey]

felra:

But, I am confident that I have (along with other posters) identified, first things first, in a heirarchy of issues that this husband brought into the marriage that have prevented this new marriage from getting firmly established on the foundation of Jesus Christ.

Without more evidence, you confidence is only speculation.

felra:

I am not pretentious to offer “solutions” to a complex problem. I offer take it or leave it next step practical suggestions and interpretations.

Then why post anything at all?

 

[NFPfamily]

vern humphrey:

Quite the contrary. Although in reinforcing the OP’s tendency to confrontation, you may have sunk here battleship and her marriage.

:nope: :tsktsk:
That’s not a nice thing to say! Everyone here has the intent to help- sorry, but it’s not your call as far as who is right and who isn’t. The OP can discern for herself what will work for her. I think it’s time for you to take a time-out!

 

[vern_humphrey]

NFPfamily:

That’s not a nice thing to say! Everyone here has the intent to help- sorry, but it’s not your call as far as who is right and who isn’t. The OP can discern for herself what will work for her. I think it’s time for you to take a time-out!

Given the context – and the unkind original comment to which I was referring – it seemed appropriate.

After all, we ARE talking about saving a marriage, and that’s not a subject for such flippant comments.

 

[NFPfamily]

vern humphrey:

Given the context – and the unkind original comment to which I was referring – it seemed appropriate.

After all, we ARE talking about saving a marriage, and that’s not a subject for such flippant comments.

I found her battleship comment to be adding light-heartedness to the growing tense bickering. Maybe your pride is getting in the way of seeing it how it was intended. Nevertheless, you crossed the line. Please reconsider your rhetoric- maybe an apology is in order? :yup: