My first encounter with an Abortionist

[twiztedseraph]

paramedicgirl:

Nah, we just say eh a lot

LOL, okay.

 

[paramedicgirl]

infabilly:

Meh, I just stay in the States since I can’t afford to travel. bwahaha.
Iuno, I’m quiet.

@anti-abortion people even if it was from rape:
Well rape or not, maybe women get abortions because they’re not mature enough to handle the pregnacy/raising a child. Babies are born everyday, people die everyday (either by natural causes or something else).

By that logic, people could justify anything, and not be governed by any laws or moral standards. That is frightening.

 

[Celia]

infabilly:

Meh, I just stay in the States since I can’t afford to travel. bwahaha.
Iuno, I’m quiet.

@anti-abortion people even if it was from rape:
Well rape or not, maybe women get abortions because they’re not mature enough to handle the pregnacy/raising a child. Babies are born everyday, people die everyday (either by natural causes or something else).

And thousands of good, caring, mature people are on lists to adopt, every day…people die every day, sure, but they shouldn’t at the hands of another.

 

[puzzleannie]

in my opinion, having been involved in pro-life work since college (before RvW) one the biggest reasons for the lack of political effectiveness of the right to live movement over the last 30 years has been petty bickering and lact of cooperation and simply Christian charity among representatives of various groups and organizations who should be united in this cause. That lack of charity has been amply demonstrated in this discussion, where persons who agree in essentials are arguing in a lamentable tone about non-essentials.

Since I repeatedly encounter women who profess to have had abortions and to be proud of it, my stock answer is, “I am so sorry, I will pray for you. If in the future you ever feel the need, there is a wonderful healing ministry called Rachel’s Vineyard. Here is a card. Maybe you know someone else who might benefit from this.”

 

[MooCowSteph]

twiztedseraph:

i met a woman (upper middleclass, only two kids, husband and her both work, healthy) who had 4 abortions and…was proud of it.

So sad.

I’ve come in contact with a few women who have had abortions through pro-life work. They are all women who have become prolife because of the experience. You say this was your first encounter with a woman who had had an abortion although I’m sure you meant the first time someone admitted to it. I just found out a few weeks ago that a dear friend of mine - we go back to middle school - had two abortions in high school. Very sad. The fact is we probably know many more people who are victims of abortion that we will ever know or really care to know. With over one million babies aborted every year, those women are our neighbors, co-workers, mail carriers, bosses, grocery clerks, PTA parents, and friends. We must pray for them.

 

[MooCowSteph]

@CatholicSam & Celia:
Well if they’re not emotionally/financially ready to have a child… or if they have some internal problems and aren’t able to give birth. shrug

Meh, I just think too much about abortion and pregnancy complications, but that’s what I get for watching/read stories about them.
I’m all for abortion, but if a woman is sexually active and not thinking about the consequences then she should keep the baby.

But it’s the lady’s choice to get “about four” abortions. Maybe later she’ll break down and get help to deal with it. If you all think “she’s going to hell” for it, then yay. HAHA. Some people are sick enough to the point where an abortion wouldn’t bother them at all. People have different views, opinions, and emotions.
An acquaintence of mine knows a woman who’s had quite a few abortions because she wanted her baby to be born on Halloween.

If they are not emotionally or financially ready to have a baby then they should think about waiting to have sex. If you are not emotionally ready for a baby can you really say you’re emotionally ready for sex? And why should a baby have to pay with his life because you’re not ready? Why do you differentiate between a women having sex without thinking of consequences, saying she should keep the baby, and a women who maybe was thinking she might get pregnant?

Yes, this lady did have the legal right to make her “choice”. Legality does not make something moral.

Well, this thread will likly get closed for going off track…

 

[Ana]

MooCowSteph:

The fact is we probably know many more people who are victims of abortion that we will ever know or really care to know. With over one million babies aborted every year, those women are our neighbors, co-workers, mail carriers, bosses, grocery clerks, PTA parents, and friends. We must pray for them.

So true. (sigh) Grant us perseverance, O Lord.

 

[infabilly]

So if a woman was having sex for pleasure, oh let’s say with her husband (since premarital sex will cause a plague on us all, o noes), and she ended up getting pregnant, but wasn’t emotionally, mentally, and/or financially ready to go through a pregnancy, it would still be wrong for her to get an abortion?

A pregnancy, for some women, could possibly cause them to get panic attacks (I believe pregnancy can effect hormones in some pretty bad ways). There are women who abuse alcohol and/or drugs because they can’t handle being pregnant.

What if a girl/woman is pregnant and has genital herpes? What if she didn’t want to pass a permanent STD on to her child, what if there were other health problems involved for either her and/or the child?
I’m only looking from the other side of the table. I’ve read quite a few stories where a pregnant woman would get an abortion because she could not go through the pregnancy, mentally, physically, or emotionally.

The Bible teaches that forgiveness for abortion is available and attainable, does it not?

 

[Island_Oak]

LSK:

The OP was overwhelmed by a seemingly callous sharing of information by a woman who told him she had had ‘about four’ abortions. He could not fathom someone having had four abortions, and another poster referred to someone who had had four abortions as ‘cruel and disgusting’.

I know it is difficult to believe that a woman could have had that many abortions and seemingly share that information as though it does not bother her. What I will tell you is that many times someone who is deeply hurt, depressed, guilt ridden and scarred by an experience - any experience - will act as though it did not affect them in order to appear ok in the face of what they perceive as negative personal judgement from another person. Now this perception may be incorrect. However, if one is going to be an effective pro-life advocate it is important to understand how a woman may feel if she has had an abortion and she ‘hears’ anger, cruelty, judgement and derision - especially from a man. She is less likely to say, “You are right. I had four abortions. It was the worst thing I ever did. I felt abandonned, abused, raped, discarded by society and less than a person. I felt that God had left me and I had no where to turn, and the only people who were nice to me were in a building marked “Planned Parenthood”. They told me this was a choice…and that I would be better off if I did this…I wish I had never done it. What do I do now?”

If, … she sees a face that is shocked, angry and looks at her with disgust what she is likely to say in response to that face is “Yeah. I had four abortions. No one else was around to help me…so what’s it to you, buster?”.

Now, we all know, as Catholics, what our DUTY is…it is to spread the GOSPEL…the question is…do you want to spread it in such a way that it is heard or in such a way that it is out right rejected?

:bowdown: :bowdown:

 

[twiztedseraph]

infabilly:

So if a woman was having sex for pleasure, oh let’s say with her husband (since premarital sex will cause a plague on us all, o noes), and she ended up getting pregnant, but wasn’t emotionally, mentally, and/or financially ready to go through a pregnancy, it would still be wrong for her to get an abortion?

A pregnancy, for some women, could possibly cause them to get panic attacks (I believe pregnancy can effect hormones in some pretty bad ways). There are women who abuse alcohol and/or drugs because they can’t handle being pregnant.

What if a girl/woman is pregnant and has genital herpes? What if she didn’t want to pass a permanent STD on to her child, what if there were other health problems involved for either her and/or the child?
I’m only looking from the other side of the table. I’ve read quite a few stories where a pregnant woman would get an abortion because she could not go through the pregnancy, mentally, physically, or emotionally.

The Bible teaches that forgiveness for abortion is available and attainable, does it not?

Firstly, yes noone is beyond forgiveness. But we cannot abide abortion because it degrades human life to the statues of a “blood clot”. The parts about a woman not “being able to” cope with pregnancy. I’m tempted to dismiss that as poppycock. I mean honestly, the entirety of human history really tends to disagree with you. What about the poverty stricken women in Africa, South America and Asia who have dozens of kids, but cope? Now okay, I feel kinda harsh so some women may not feel able to cope with having a kid, even then it is not the child’s fault. And if we compare it to people who feel they can’t cope with a job, or studies, we don’t tell them to quit do we? No, we tell them to keep on trucking. Women who are pregnant should be provided with every possible support, and that support is out there, so I think its a superfluous argument to say one does not feel ready for a child, considering the fact that most women tend to handle it even after feelings of vast inaddequacy, and the variety of support ministries out there.

Even if we consider the women who feel they can’t handle a child, statistics show that the vast majority of abortions are for trivial reasons like “Oh, I can’t afford my mercedes and my child at the same time.” Or “Me and my hubby wanted some time to ourselves first.” While one can sympathise to a limited extent one still feels alot of pity for the children we shall never see. THEY HAVE THEIR HEADS TORN OFF WITH FORCEPS!

So most abortions are done not for the reasons pro choicers like to put up like “Rape, incest, inaddequacy, inaffordability, ill health” no its for more trivial reasons.

Okay, I’m usually more articulate, this post will probably come back to haunt me but honestly, my head hurts when I think of all those kids that have died out of selfishness on behalf of the parents. I sympathise with women that feel inadequate and pray they find the strength and support they need, but still I can’t see any reason that qualifies abortion as a good alternative.

 

[infabilly]

So if you were a pregnant woman with genital herpes, you’d still give birth to your child knowing your STD will be passed on?

A lot of people have mental problems, I find it easy to understand why a depressed/suicidal woman would get an abortion. I watched on the news once, a pregnant woman stabbed her stomach with a fork because she didn’t want a baby, she said she wasn’t ready to go through the pregnacy/birth-giving.
Or maybe it was just her hormones driving her mad, who knows?
There’s sick people out there, yes. I’m sure if abortions were illegal, women would do something dangerous like getting back-alley abortions.

Poverty-stricken women… maybe they wanted that many kids? Or can’t afford to get an abortion (unless they sell their bodies, but even then it’s usually just to feed their children).
A fetus’ heart doesn’t start beating until it’s 18-25 days old, so would it still count as murder if a woman got an abortion before then?

I can understand why people would be against partial birth abortion, because that’s disgusting and actually makes me want to vomit. But if the fetus is giving no signs of life, doesn’t have a beating heart, the abortion in that case should be alright (but then, that’s usually classified as a miscarrige, ehh).

 

[mlchance]

infabilly:

…it would still be wrong for her to get an abortion?

While this is obviously a very radical position to take, some people believe that there really is never a good reason to deliberately kill a child.

infabilly:

A fetus’ heart doesn’t start beating until it’s 18-25 days old, so would it still count as murder if a woman got an abortion before then?

Well, since a beating heart is the single defining characteristic of being alive…

infabilly:

I can understand why people would be against partial birth abortion, because that’s disgusting and actually makes me want to vomit.

Ah, yes. The “it’s disgusting to me so it’s wrong” school of moral theology.

infabilly:

But if the fetus is giving no signs of life…

Then the fetus is already dead. One cannot abort a dead fetus.

OTOH, to take a living fetus and render it lifeless, which is what all abortions intend to do, is an entirely different matter.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Celia]

infabilly:

So if you were a pregnant woman with genital herpes, you’d still give birth to your child knowing your STD will be passed on?

A lot of people have mental problems, I find it easy to understand why a depressed/suicidal woman would get an abortion. I watched on the news once, a pregnant woman stabbed her stomach with a fork because she didn’t want a baby, she said she wasn’t ready to go through the pregnacy/birth-giving.
Or maybe it was just her hormones driving her mad, who knows?
There’s sick people out there, yes. I’m sure if abortions were illegal, women would do something dangerous like getting back-alley abortions.

Poverty-stricken women… maybe they wanted that many kids? Or can’t afford to get an abortion (unless they sell their bodies, but even then it’s usually just to feed their children).
A fetus’ heart doesn’t start beating until it’s 18-25 days old, so would it still count as murder if a woman got an abortion before then?

I can understand why people would be against partial birth abortion, because that’s disgusting and actually makes me want to vomit. But if the fetus is giving no signs of life, doesn’t have a beating heart, the abortion in that case should be alright (but then, that’s usually classified as a miscarrige, ehh).

If the woman has an STD it doesn’t mean she should abort the child. I think it’d be better to have an STD than be dead!

Hey, there’s crazy people out there. One would hope that they would gain the strength to get the help they need (or that a friend/family member could help) and make the right decision, which for them the best thing may be giving the child up for adoption. Obviously this doesn’t always happen. But it in no way justifies murdering a baby because the mother is mentally ill??

A life is still a life, even if it’s heart isn’t beating yet. It is still alive. Therefore having an purposeful abortion - (a miscarriage is when it happens through no fault of the mother, it is not abortion) - at ANY stage -one month pregnant or four - is still killing. It doesn’t matter how small or new the life is, it is still a life.

 

[MooCowSteph]

infabilly:

So if a woman was having sex for pleasure, oh let’s say with her husband (since premarital sex will cause a plague on us all, o noes), and she ended up getting pregnant, but wasn’t emotionally, mentally, and/or financially ready to go through a pregnancy, it would still be wrong for her to get an abortion?

A pregnancy, for some women, could possibly cause them to get panic attacks (I believe pregnancy can effect hormones in some pretty bad ways). There are women who abuse alcohol and/or drugs because they can’t handle being pregnant.

What if a girl/woman is pregnant and has genital herpes? What if she didn’t want to pass a permanent STD on to her child, what if there were other health problems involved for either her and/or the child?
I’m only looking from the other side of the table. I’ve read quite a few stories where a pregnant woman would get an abortion because she could not go through the pregnancy, mentally, physically, or emotionally.

The Bible teaches that forgiveness for abortion is available and attainable, does it not?

Most of us on these boards are Catholic. It is the Catholic position that there is no justifiable reason for abortion. No reason at all. A human is a human no matter what. Nothing makes murder of the innocent OK.

Of course the person can be forgiven, assuming they are sorry for their sin.

There are medical ways to keep STDs from being passed on to the baby.

There is adoption for the women who isn’t ready for children. And the stuff about not being able to handle pregnancy is bunk.

 

[infabilly]

Well I’m not Catholic and I don’t push my beliefs on anyone, only try to get them to see the other side of things, other possibilities, reasons (that others believe are good enough reasons, despite your own), etc. It’s great to be open to other peoples’ views and opinions instead of thinking only one is the right one.

@Celia: I heard STDs aren’t fun to have. Technically the baby isn’t alive if its heart hasn’t started to beat.

MooCowSteph: So a woman ends up pregnant, though she doesn’t want a child at all. She cannot even support herself, so she should just keep the baby anyway?

 

[MooCowSteph]

infabilly:

Well I’m not Catholic and I don’t push my beliefs on anyone, only try to get them to see the other side of things, other possibilities, reasons (that others believe are good enough reasons, despite your own), etc. It’s great to be open to other peoples’ views and opinions instead of thinking only one is the right one.

@Celia: I heard STDs aren’t fun to have. Technically the baby isn’t alive if its heart hasn’t started to beat.

MooCowSteph: So a woman ends up pregnant, though she doesn’t want a child at all. She cannot even support herself, so she should just keep the baby anyway?

There is always adoption.

And if it’s your view that the baby is alive when the heart beats (which is, BTW, around day 14) then why is it OK to have an abortion after that point?

 

[Celia]

infabilly:

Well I’m not Catholic and I don’t push my beliefs on anyone, only try to get them to see the other side of things, other possibilities, reasons (that others believe are good enough reasons, despite your own), etc. It’s great to be open to other peoples’ views and opinions instead of thinking only one is the right one.

@Celia: I heard STDs aren’t fun to have. Technically the baby isn’t alive if its heart hasn’t started to beat.

MooCowSteph: So a woman ends up pregnant, though she doesn’t want a child at all. She cannot even support herself, so she should just keep the baby anyway?

I’ve heard being murdered isn’t the bees knees either.

And yes, it is still a life even if there is no heart beat. It is a life from conception onwards.

 

[infabilly]

MooCowSteph:

There is always adoption.

And if it’s your view that the baby is alive when the heart beats (which is, BTW, around day 14) then why is it OK to have an abortion after that point?

Because it’s the woman’s choice, even if you think it’s a heartless thing to do. But this is the real world, not everybody believes in the same God or even a God at all, and if you have a problem with the whole thing, then I’m sorry.
Some women are just not ready, in any way, to go through 9 months of pregnancy, and that is something millions of people have been dealing with, since it’s not their choice at all.
It’s fine and peachykeen that you wouldn’t consider getting an abortion, and that you think it’s wrong, but a woman who considers getting one thinks her reason is right enough for her. And she can always get help if it comes back to haunt her.

And since a woman has the choice to get an abortion (wow, freedom of choice in America), we really can’t do jackcrap about it because if it suddenly became illegal to get an abortion, women will still get them, just in a more dangerous way.
Either way, it’s pretty dumb to tell somebody they’re wrong for doing something if it’s something they really want or even need (for whatever reason I wouldn’t really know of because I’m not pregnant and never have been) to do.

 

[oldfogey]

Infabilly, you have my prayers. Not only that you may rethink your positions (which seem somewhat ill informed and sometimes contradictory) but also for calling those on this forum dumb.

Remember, we also have a choice, and that is to be pro-life, and it is our right to believe as we do without having our intelligence questioned.

 

[infabilly]

oldfogey:

Infabilly, you have my prayers. Not only that you may rethink your positions (which seem somewhat ill informed and sometimes contradictory) but also for calling those on this forum dumb.

Remember, we also have a choice, and that is to be pro-life, and it is our right to believe as we do without having our intelligence questioned.

Nice.
I know how I meant my words to come out, and I know that I didn’t call anybody on here dumb. Only the fact that a lot of people are suprisingly close-minded, and don’t accept the fact that others have the right to choose to do something anybody on here wouldn’t do (ie, get an abortion) is dumb.

Yes, you have the right to be pro-life, but it’s ignorant to force your beliefs and views on those who have differing ones, instead of simply just accepting the fact that not everybody is going to think, believe, and view things the same things as you do.
It’s a big world, and there are so many different people who reside in it, not accepting the fact that people believe different things and forcing yours on them only makes things worse, and makes your religion seem brainwashed and pushy (of course, I don’t think this. I’ve only witnessed and heard it).