My husband has been silenced by his pastor

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Keep a couple of things in mind.

Even though it is slow, we are seeing a turn towards orthodoxy. It will never be as fast as one would have it, but the turn has been made.

People are not dumb. Undoubtedly there are some in your parish who delight in the new pastor. Just as undoubtedly, there are others who can see through what he is doing, are aware of what is going on, and do not approve.

There are many avenues of witness. It sounds as if your husbasnd is very gifted in homiletics. I suspect he has other gifts also; it may be the time for him to polish up some of them.

Others (including other priests) are aware of his gift and will bring it to the front.

His obedience is part of the charism of deacons: service. In a world that relishes the rebel, the witness of obedience is like a beacon.

We assume that martyrdom means death; however, there are different types of martyrs; and the world needs more martyrs. Allow him his.
 
Dear Sue,

I noticed something, and I’m surprised no one else has said anything. I don’t like saying this, but your husband being deacon at this parish seems to be tearing away at your marriage.

Though the demands are enormous and unending, I do not believe when your husband signed the contract to be deacon he agreed to throw away his entire Sacrament of Marriage for the sake of the parish.

Something else I noticed. When the previous pastor left, did your husband discuss signing a new contract with the new pastor? Did you husband ask how the new pastor wanted to utilize his talents with the parish?

It seems from your posting this wasn’t done. Since neither of you thought to obtain a new contract with him when he became pastor nor sought his vision and future plans for the parish, he may believe you both do not value his opinion and respect his leadership position within the parish as pastor. I mean, your husband discussed a contract with the previous pastor. Why not this newer pastor?

Also, having your husband assume he would be speaking the Homily at the parish may be viewed as a threat to the pastor’s authority; having the pastor state he is doing the Homily in his own parish is having him reassert his authority with your husband.

Why not have your husband state the obvious to the new pastor in his obedient way: ‘It seems that you are coming along fine here. And though some of my talents are used here, others that used to be used here you are now handling. Let’s sit down and work out an arrangement where I can work here and help you and our parish, and utilize my overlapping talents with the other parishes that are in need?’

One more thing, this does not seem like an Orthodox vs Progressive arguement.

The new associate priest challenged the newer pastor on controlling the parish. He wanted it ran ‘rigid’; and the new pastor did, did not, did not like the new associate priest’s leadershpi style. Whatever. The point is there was not at ‘fit’ between the two. In the newer pastor’s mind, your husband already is challenging/questioning/ignoring his authority. And now another person wants to challenge/question it as well? It makes sense to move the new associate priest onward to a parish that would make better use of his talents and ‘rigid’ style. Here is another example where the newer pastor made a decision, you are questioning his authority.

I do not know all the details. I am not a marriage counselor, an expert ‘whatever’, nor am I all for this Progressive stuff (ugly churches, touching each other seems to mean you are more holy, no kneelers!-but I still kneel, etc). But I am an outsider looking in, and this is what I see.

I will pray things go smoother for you, your husband, and his parish.

Thank you.
Mrs. C.
 
Mrs. C -

Thank you for your concern, but this is not affecting our marriage from any other angle than we do not worship together. On those rare occasions he does preach (3 times since the new priest has been here), I do attend Mass at that parish, because I love to hear his homilies.

He wasn’t “assuming” any responsibility here. There was a meeting with the priests of the 5 parishes, and those priests were all in favor of my husband offering the homily. After the 4th service, which my husband’s pastor attended to hear individual confessions, he was advised that he would NOT be preaching at his assigned parish.

Progressive vs. Orthodoxy is a battle being waged here. The liturgical abuses are awful, this priests openly supports a married clergy and women priests, and many of the devotions have been tossed by the wayside. If you think orthodoxy is “rigid,” then you might not be as orthodox as you think you are. My husband has been able to put a stop to a lot of the abuses of the Sacrament at Communion, such as: an EMHC (who still call themselves EMs) standing AT the altar during the Fraction Rite, having the EMHCs just stroll up to the Tablenacle to remove the Hosts, and having them purify the vessels. He’s working closely with the altar servers (yes, there are girls, too sigh) to be more reverent at the Mass. When he first got to this parish, every Tom, Dick & Harry would walk across the Sanctuary to get to the other side of the church. They never even acknowledged the Tabernacle. Thankfully, that has eased up considerably, as the servers now know to direct people around and thru the aisles.

The new pastor said he would honor the old pastor’s contract with my husband. So far, nothing has been honored.

There is so much more that I really am not comfortable about divulging, but I am much happier at my parish, and my husband is happy making baby steps of progress at his. As a matter of fact, it’s better because I don’t complain to him about things I see there. God is good. He will sustain us throughout the duration of this contract.
 
Sue,

I had a chance to hear your DH homilize today.

All my brothers and sisters went to the parish school your DH is assigned to. Even though they attend a nearby parish, my brother and his wife got married at DH’s parish and have had their children baptized there (they met at the High School)

We had the Baptism of my niece today at 10:00 Mass and your DH gave a fantastic homily

( it was on how secularism is the modern day Herod, trying to destroy Christ in our lives)

I did mention to the pastor what a wonderful homily it was 😉

After Mass, I could not help but notice the quite service your husband performed, tyding up here, organizing there. The very model of diakona 👍
 
Brendan -

Thank you! He was delighted to meet you, too! He said you have a lovely family. 🙂

Thank you for saying what a good homily it was. He never gets any feedback at all from the pastor.

God bless you in your journey through Diaconate Formation. You sound like you will be an awesome deacon, too!

Sue
 
Chickamauga said:
* *
And your source for this rather inflammatory accusation is…?
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Try, for starters, the National Catholic Register (Hardly a flaming liberal paper) and their review of his book; his reponse, and their response to his response. There are also other reviews which have pointed out sloppy research, failure to document, and polemical style.
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Chickamauga:
You would rather we listen to a “trained investigate journalist” like, oh, Dan Rather? {/QUOTE] No, you silly goose, someone who can write without foaming at the mouth.
Chickamagua:
There is nothing “soothing” about Goodbye, Good Men
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.

It is soothing to the twits who cluck their tongues, shake their heads, and utter murmurs of delicious dismay.

The book is just plain poorly written and researched. If you want to read a well written book on the status of the Church, read Wiegel’s writing. He doesn’t pander.
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Detroit Sue:
Mrs. C -

My husband has been able to put a stop to a lot of the abuses of the Sacrament at Communion, such as: having them purify the vessels.
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There is a three year indult allowing EMHCs to purify the vessels. Whether or not it will be continued is unknown. I presume the indult is nation-wide; I do not know if it also requires the permission of the bishop. Given the indult, however, I would question that it could legitimately be called an abuse unless it required the permission of the bishop and that was not given.
Detroit Sue:
The new pastor said he would honor the old pastor’s contract with my husband. So far, nothing has been honored.
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If it was an employment contract and your husband is still employed there, then it is being honored. I suspect that the details were never written down as to what exactly he would be doing.
 
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otm:
If it was an employment contract and your husband is still employed there, then it is being honored. I suspect that the details were never written down as to what exactly he would be doing.
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There were details. :rolleyes:
 
Detroit Sue:
My husband was invited by one of the priests in the vicariate to preach the Homily for a series of Communal Penances. This schedule was published among the parishes he was invited to, the last one (December 19) to take place at his assignment. He has done 3 so far.
…
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Homilies or sermons should never be given by a lay person.
Redemptionis Sacramentum, para 64:

[64.] The homily, which is given in the course of the celebration of Holy Mass and is a part of the Liturgy itself, “should ordinarily be given by the Priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating Priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to a Deacon, but never to a layperson.In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a Priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate”.

Canon Law, para 767 states:

Can. 767 §1 The most important form of preaching is the homily, which is part of the liturgy, and is reserved to a priest or deacon…
 
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bob:
Homilies or sermons should never be given by a lay person.
Redemptionis Sacramentum, para 64:

[64.] The homily, which is given in the course of the celebration of Holy Mass and is a part of the Liturgy itself, “should ordinarily be given by the Priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating Priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to a Deacon, but never to a layperson.In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a Priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate”.

Canon Law, para 767 states:

Can. 767 §1 The most important form of preaching is the homily, which is part of the liturgy, and is reserved to a priest or deacon…
Click to expand...
He’s a deacon.
 
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otm:
If it was an employment contract and your husband is still employed there, then it is being honored. I suspect that the details were never written down as to what exactly he would be doing.
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A deacon serves at the pleasure of the Bishop, not the Pastor. Therefore, the assignment of a deacon to a parish is a function of the Ordinary.

A Pastor has no standing to dismiss a deacon or to deny the deacon their rightful place at Mass.

Now the homily itself is the responsibilty of the celebrant priest, who may choose to delegate it to a concelebrating priest or to the deacon as they see fit.

The deacon, should however, by right, have the opportunity to preach on occassion; as they are ordained to that ministry by the Bishop.
 
This is a tricky debate aside from the obvious problem with the pastor and his faith issues. The bishop assigns the deacon, but obviously the canonical pastor has all the authority that comes with being a canonical pastor. In my diocese permanent deacons are expected to preach once a month, although I suspect they often preach somewhat less.

The CONTENT of a homily is something else. We have one priest “in residence” who preaches strongly against abortion, and I know some people are less than thrilled with his choice of words on occasion even when they agree with the thrust of his message. What authority does a pastor have in situations like this? The deacon has the faculty to preach based on his ordination; he is publicly trusted by the Church herself to deliver a homily. Can a pastor demand the homily be written out in advance for his approval? What if the deacon likes to preach extemporaneously or from outlines? I’ve heard of the Vatican “silencing” priests and telling them not to preach publicly, but I have never heard of it done within a single parish.
 
Detroit Sue,

A person after my own heart. One that is willing to stand up for the Orthodox way. We need to hear that we are sinners. I had to be reminded of that recently by two wonderful people at one of my post about an annulment by Cyprian and Itsjustdave.

Somehow people want to be all lovey-dovey and have that warm fuzzy feeling. It is good to be accepted, but we need to hear that we are sinners first and foremost. When I hear homilies with that message, I am often called to repentance. Therefore, I believe your husband is a wonderful person for what he is doing. I guess I would privately talk with the priest, too, and find out what the underlying problem might be.

What is wrong with wanting a traditional type of worship? So many people get angry when you mention things that are contradictory to scripture such as women priests. I also find it wrong for women to administer the Eucharist, but gosh knows, I don’t want to start a debate on it. My point in even mentioning it, is to let you know that I agree with you about going back to the old way of a more traditional worship. I’ll probably get an angry response against what I believe are abuses in the church.

I will pray for your husband, Sue. Say a prayer for me medical lady. If I recall correctly, you work in the medical field with your husband. The doctor that I worked for, for the last five years, had to take an unexpected early retirement after a stroke he had in February. We thought he would be back next month, but he did not pass his last neurological evaluation. So, I am having to search frantically for a job, because my severance pay will only last until January the 15th.

Tell your husband to be strong and pray for guidance. And I see nothing wrong with you being at a different parish if you two find it o.k., because I am sure that you support him everyday.

God bless,
 
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