My life

[KnitNut]

You can have a simple life and make big $. This is what I mean when I suggest in your situation it’s as much (if not more) an issue of mindset as it is an issue of budget shortfall.

 

[momof3inOR]

I have considered filing for bankruptcy. But, considering the nature of my job… It may not be possible. Legally you can’t be fired for filing… But boy, they sure can find other reasons in a hot minute. I’ve seen it before.

It’s just tough because I brought up the private school issue and the writing last night. My husband said if the writing starts being “too much” to just “walk away”. I said I’d love to… But we need the money. I said quitting my side jobs would be fantastic! He didn’t have any more to say… After that. When I asked him about his work he shut me down and said “I don’t want to talk about work any more”.

I will suggest sitting down and doing a budget with him today. But, I admit, I’m scared. This is the kind of position that really turns him into a child.

 

[JRKH]

First off jrkh I am SO sorry about your wife. It’s awful to hear what you have been going through. I’m very sorry.

Thank you. It’s been tough but (believe it or not) also a blessing. I’ve gotten to spend 19 + years with the love of my life…

And thanks to all of you for what you have said.

Glad you are not too upset with our posts.
It’s interesting how this thread has evolved…

Yes my husband makes 75k and I make more. But that is why I really wanted to be able to downsize and save more. Now, I know that most won’t believe this, but do you know that someone who makes 140 thousand a year, brings home 6k a month. I know that is still substantial, but after taxes and healthcare in my state … That’s a huge reduction!
The taxes and such are of no consequence to what we are trying to convey here…
6K a month is STILL - $72,000 dollars clear money per year.
And you can’t live, comfortably and easily on that???
There is something quite wrong with this picture and both you and your husband have to recognize this.

As I see it…instead of living a lifestyle that you can afford, you and your husband are trying to afford the lifestyle you (want to) live. Life does not work that way.

Our lease is 3400 a month and 2 car payments… And you can see … That’s just making ends meet. (in this current…situation). We have racked up credit card debt from the time that my husband wasn’t working. We don’t have any extra cash to spare. Maybe 3 thousand for an emergency. We can’t use that to pay off our cars.

Right off the top you are overpaying for a place to live…Growing up the rule of thumb was to pay not more than 25% for housing. Later I’ve heard the number put at not more than 33% - But paying more than 50% of your monthly income in rent is shear madness. It’s plain and simple…It’s madness.
You don’t really need more than 5 or 6 rooms in a house. Two bedrooms is fine if your children are all the same gender…otherwise - three bedrooms. An eat in kitchen, a living room and a bath/laundry area - What does a place like that go for where you live?

I wish I could just “go back home” in some ways. My mom and my sis and her family’s lifestyles are so simple. They aren’t exposed to the kind of stress that I am and I just wish sometimes… That my life were different. My job will always be stressful and come with certain expectations (nice clothes etc) but sometimes the grass isn’t always greener. They have a VERY simple life. To me… It looks pretty darn good.

Yes the grass can look greener.
And maybe the “simpler” lifestyle isn’t really for you…That really isn’t the point here anyway.

As I said above…you are working this thing backwards. Instead of living what you can afford, you are trying to afford what you live…You have overreached and are now off balance.
You are uncomfortable because you are off balance.
You are stressed because you are off balance.
And because you are off balance you can’t build a stable floor under yourself to help you regain your balance.

Get your balance back first. Live within your income - better yet, live within 80% of your income…

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

I have considered filing for bankruptcy. But, considering the nature of my job… It may not be possible. Legally you can’t be fired for filing… But boy, they sure can find other reasons in a hot minute. I’ve seen it before.

It’s just tough because I brought up the private school issue and the writing last night. My husband said if the writing starts being “too much” to just “walk away”. I said I’d love to… But we need the money. I said quitting my side jobs would be fantastic! He didn’t have any more to say… After that. When I asked him about his work he shut me down and said “I don’t want to talk about work any more”.

**I will suggest sitting down and doing a budget with him today. But, I admit, I’m scared. This is the kind of position that really turns him into a child. **

Who handles the money - pays the bills etc - in your house?

Peace
James

 

[momof3inOR]

I pay most of them. We have a joint account though. He pays his credit cards etc and never even tells me. I always have to ask because he just thinks it will always be fine.

And by my calculations our rent is 33 percent of our combined income

 

[JRKH]

I pay most of them. We have a joint account though. He pays his credit cards etc and never even tells me. I always have to ask because he just thinks it will always be fine.

Time to either appoint one person to handle all of this with each person receiving an allowance based on the agreed budget…OR…Separating the accounts and the bills…

And by my calculations our rent is 33 percent of our combined income

Did I miss something??? You said…
“Our lease is 3400 a month and 2 car payments”.
I assume you meant the house was $3400 plus (you have) two car payments on top of that. That is why you could say…
“And you can see … That’s just making ends meet”.

Now if you bring home $6000 a month…then $3400 = 56% of $6000

If I have misunderstood…I apologize…

Peace
James

 

[momof3inOR]

Yeah, I think your previous posts about needing an equal mature other half are right on

My husband is not really ready to face reality. In fact the budget suggestion has thrown him into a tizzy. Now he’s back to… “well, when your book starts selling…” etc.

As for the percentages. I make 6k a month. That’s not including his income and my current side projects. I was saying IF he loses his job, we would be in financial ruins. Does that make sense?

 

[1inICXC]

No it’s not erotica. I changed it to romance after the wonderful advice I received here.

I **guess my question is… What choice do I have? ** If I simply stop working these side jobs… We won’t make our bills. And I have been there before and he doesn’t step up to cover for me.

I know it’s a viscous cycle… But how do I simply stop if I know it will only mean more financial turmoil? Life will only be worse…

I keep daydreaming about finding a real man who would fight for his family.

I’m sorry, I haven’t had a chance to read through the whole thread but I’m seeing a lot of amaxing advice here.

I was thinking of giving you ONE concrete thing you can do to grow some backbone and get some of your life back in control: Get rid of your car, or his! Or if you have 3, get rid of 2 of them. You CAN get out of a lease! Go on leasebuster or “releaseme” site and put the car up. Get rid of one of your expenses and show him that you are serious about downsizing!

You might lose some money upfront but it’s still cheaper than going all the way through with the lease.

Doing something drastic like this will hopefully give you the courage to take the reigns and make decisions independent of your spoiled husband’s whims!

If you need tips on getting out of your lease, let me know

 

[JRKH]

Yeah, I think your previous posts about needing an equal mature other half are right on

Yup…Otherwise you are the mom and you have four children…

My husband is not really ready to face reality. In fact the budget suggestion has thrown him into a tizzy. Now he’s back to… “well, when your book starts selling…” etc.

That is to be expected. You just have to let him have is tizzy…As to his “well when the book starts selling”…The response is:
“When my book starts selling that money is already earmarked for paying off the student loans. (or something like that)…” You then continue…“The simple fact is that we can’t continue counting on money that may never materialize”

You both have decent jobs with set salaries…that is what you budget for and with. Nothing else. If other monies come in, from side jobs etc…that is great - you can then decide how best to use that money once it is in the bank account but not before.

you will have to let him be upset for awhile…but…just like he keeps nudging you about the book - you keep nudging him about the budget…

As for the percentages. I make 6k a month. That’s not including his income and my current side projects. I was saying IF he loses his job, we would be in financial ruins. Does that make sense?
No -I can’t say I do understand, but I don’t have to. What matters is that you and he get a handle on this and start working together as a team…The details are less important. Just make sure that the budget makes sense and that you both stick to it.

Peace
James

 

[Xantippe]

There’s been a lot of good advice given. Here are some more thoughts:

1. Momof3, I think you mentioned Dave Ramsey. That’s very good. Do you think you could get your husband to do the new Financial Peace University course with you? It’s only 9 weeks. Or maybe get him to go to a Dave Ramsey live show? Bribe him as needed to get him to go. (That sounds terrible as a way of dealing with an adult man, but your options at this point are limited.) Try to get him on board to try the Dave Ramsey baby steps (for six months? a year?).
2. If you do eventually get your husband to sit down with you and do a monthly spending plan (let’s not say “budget”), be generous with allowing each of you some no-questions-asked allowance/fun money/blow money. (My husband and I each get around $43 a month, but I think your husband will need more to avoid feeling pinched.)
3. Think about your dreams with your husband. Make a list of the things you’d each like, and a list of what is standing in your way. I expect you’ll (and hopefully he will) discover that the main thing standing between you and your big dreams is your current lifestyle.
4. As people have mentioned, it is possible to get out of a car lease, perhaps with the help of a credit union (they could give you a loan for the underwater balance).
5. Don’t file bankruptcy. At least as you’ve described it, your problem is current spending, not debt. There’s no point in wrecking your credit and perhaps your career if you’re not going to turn over a new leaf financially. And if you turn over a new leaf, with your excellent income, you can easily deal with your financial problems in a few years.
6. Definitely pull the kids out of Catholic school. Putting them back in could be one of your #3 dreams, something to work toward.
7. Do you think your husband might have some sort of mental issues, for instance ADHD or bipolar? He seems to have a lot of problems with impulsiveness and unrealistic expectations of the future.
8. You need cheaper housing as soon as possible. I wouldn’t freak out about it right this minute (as long as your husband still has his job), but be planning your escape. For your next lease, plan to spend half as much or less.
9. The basic problem I see with your lifestyle is that you and your husband are trying to have everything right now: the really nice rental, the nice cars, the private school, the nanny, student loans, etc. The truth is, that even people with excellent incomes such as you enjoy have to choose only a few of these things. My husband and I have an income in the same category as you (just barely six figures), but it’s probably more or less equivalent as we are probably in a lower cost area and have fewer expenses as I am a SAHM. Our lifestyle contains the following: $1450 a month rental, $1000 a month private school, no debt (except credit cards paid off in full every month), 10% charitable giving, one paid-off car (value probably around $3000), and substantial monthly savings (we’re buying a house next year). There are some big ticket items in there (the school, the rental and charity), but we compensate by controlling other expenses. We started doing Dave Ramsey’s plan seriously in 2007 and have had over a $100k shift in net worth over that time span. I have a history as a reformed spender, so I understand where your husband is coming from. I used to love mochas and lunch at Starbucks and Baby Gap and ordering as much stuff from Amazon as I wanted. But you know what? I still enjoy a lot of that stuff (just much more moderately) and I don’t miss a thing. It’s worth much more to me to know that we will be able to do a 20% downpayment on a very nice house near my husband’s work next year, that we have substantial emergency savings, we have good insurance, we are able to help those less fortunate than ourselves and we’re able to send our kids to the best private school in town.

 

[momof3inOR]

OK-- SO I took the advice on here. I sat down and took the blinders off. We are in extreme financial trouble. I did the budget. We are barely breaking even - with OUT the private school.

I have talked to my husband. I told him that I can’t continue treading water and doing all these side projects anymore. I told him that I am about to crack/burn out.

He has lost it. He is very upset and is making threats about how he will have to “go sweep floors overnights at Walgreens and go straight to his day job” if I chose not to do the side projects anymore. He’s being very passive aggressive.

He’s mad, but he’s just shutting down. He doesn’t want to face the music (who does) and he is making huge threats about how he will just never see his family - working overnights…but “it’s OK - he’ll do it.”

I just don’t know what to do. I think it’s time that I seperate from him. I can’t live like this. Our poor kid – he’s going to have to move AGAIN – am I going to totally screw him up? God, I just feel like a terrible mother - I can’t afford to keep him in that house –

It’s just all fallen on my shoulders and I don’t know what else to do.

 

[JRKH]

OK-- SO I took the advice on here. I sat down and took the blinders off. We are in extreme financial trouble. I did the budget. We are barely breaking even - with OUT the private school.

I have talked to my husband. I told him that I can’t continue treading water and doing all these side projects anymore. I told him that I am about to crack/burn out.

Good for you. I know this took a huge amount of courage.

He has lost it. He is very upset and is making threats about how he will have to “go sweep floors overnights at Walgreens and go straight to his day job” if I chose not to do the side projects anymore. He’s being very passive aggressive.

He’s mad, but he’s just shutting down. He doesn’t want to face the music (who does) and he is making huge threats about how he will just never see his family - working overnights…but “it’s OK - he’ll do it.”

Just about what we expected right? Nothing in his behavior is a surprise here. In fact - with you being a writer - you could probably have almost “scripted” his response ahead of time…right?
The most important thing in this is not to get sucked in by his “threats” which are nothing but bluster and hot air anyway…and the thing that he does not realize at this point is that you now know that it is just bluster and hot air…Believe it or not this gives you a huge advantage.
He will flip and flop and flounder and threaten and cajole and shut down and all of the other things that have worked for him in the past and allowed him to avoid reality, but YOU have the hard numbers. YOU have the facts - the reality - the truth that cannot be denied…He will either come to see this eventually or not…It’s up to him, not you…
You just stick to your guns, to the reality of the situation, it’s the most loving thing you can do…for him - for you and for your kids.
After all your making this fight for him as much as for you. You are fighting for your family. So - it’s up to him whether the family stays together or not…He either accepts reality…or finds himself in a “new” reality…alone.

I just don’t know what to do. I think it’s time that I seperate from him. I can’t live like this. Our poor kid – he’s going to have to move AGAIN – am I going to totally screw him up? God, I just feel like a terrible mother - I can’t afford to keep him in that house –

It’s just all fallen on my shoulders and I don’t know what else to do.

You are NOT a terrible mother. Keep loving your child and if you need to move out - well that is just what has to be - at least for the time being.
You are a strong woman…Stronger than you realize…And God is very near to you now even though it probably does not feel like it.
May God continue to guide you and wrap you in his loving arms.

Peace
James

 

[Ms_Manners]

He has lost it. He is very upset and is making threats about how he will have to “go sweep floors overnights at Walgreens and go straight to his day job” if I chose not to do the side projects anymore. He’s being very passive aggressive.

He’s mad, but he’s just shutting down. He doesn’t want to face the music (who does) and he is making huge threats about how he will just never see his family - working overnights…but “it’s OK - he’ll do it.”

At the risk of sounding horrible here - so what?
He is a grown up and grown ups need to realize that in such a situation they either need to spend less or make more.
He would maybe even get that job, just to show you, but he would also soon give up.
Maybe then he would be more open to saving money.

And something that comes to my mind when reading your story…

In marriage I would hope to have a husband who would be open to conversation on this subject and who would respect what we agreed, as I would always do. I would prefer to have joint accounts and open access to both salaries in such a situation.
But if I couldn’t count on him, I would try to protect at least some of our budget, the part I make.

Can you do that? Can you maybe curb his spending by denying him access to your salary? He would still have a credit card, but sometimes there are things you can do to make sure your spouse’s spending doesn’t ruin you.
I don’t know how it works for you, but where I live it’s very simple to direct your money to another account, and even to cut someone’s limit.
For example, we get a certain limit on the cards which we have together based on our joint budget. If our budgets were separate, that would affect the limits on the cards. If I had to, I could just notify the card company of the change and they would cut the limit to the other card as well, so he couldn’t spend as much anymore.
Just a note - I don’t think these measures are friendly or good and it would take me a lot to decide to go for it, but in a dire situation…

Also, I am not saying what you should do concerning your marriage, just that you should maybe think about your financial separation first if you decide to leave, to make sure you cannot be held responsible for his bad habits after that and that he cannot continue to take your money to get back at you and to ensure his lifestyle for at least a little longer.

 

[Xantippe]

Here’s another facet that has probably occurred to you already–your burning out on a lot of side projects could endanger your ability to perform at your day job and hold on to it. Keeping your day job is priority #1, I think.

You’re doing as well as you can right now. Your husband sounds like he’s in a really volatile condition, so it sounds like a good idea to follow the previous poster’s advice and leave him alone right now to either put up or shut up about sweeping floors at night at Walgreens. (And really, who is going to work 24/7 just to keep up a stupid car lease?) The only major financial things that are readily doable right now is to 1) get the kids out of Catholic school and 2) work on getting out of your car lease and into a cash car.

I’m getting more concerned that your husband may be bipolar (bipolar people often have terrible money management problems). I understand the almost insurmountable challenge of getting him evaluated, but if I’m right and you’re able to get him onto the right medication, it could save your family.

 

[Xantippe]

I think this has been mentioned before, but it’s really important to limit your routine expenses (rent, cars, food, etc.) to what your day jobs can cover. You should not take on any large recurring expenses in the expectation that side jobs will cover them. In your current situation, use side job money for paying off debt and building savings.

I also would not go for the separate finances idea. You’re in a single boat, and if he’s drilling holes on his side, you’re all going down, even if you put up a divider between his side of the deck and yours. There’s no way to wall yourself off from his financial immaturity, short of separation or divorce, and even then, you’ll be feeling the repercussions for decades to come, as it will affect his ability to support his children or hold down a job. The last thing you want is to separate finances and then discover a couple years later that he’s run up five-figure credit card debt.

When things cool down a bit, maybe you could make a wall chart showing your debts from smallest to largest and make a family ritual of updating the chart as you pay stuff off? (Feel free to discontinue this idea if your husband starts adding stuff to the list.) You could make another chart for emergency savings and for house downpayment savings, taking (name removed by moderator)ut from your husband as to how nice a house he wants next time. The nicer the house, the more you need to save.

 

[Ms_Manners]

The last thing you want is to separate finances and then discover a couple years later that he’s run up five-figure credit card debt.

I’m sorry, I don’t know how it works for her, where I live there are different ways of protecting yourself from your (ex) spouses financial irresponsibility. Also, the card companies would not allow you to run up that much debt, you’d be blocked and black-listed way before that could ever happen. When you’re black-listed, which happens very soon if you don’t pay everything on time, you can’t take out new credit cards, none at all, or take out more money than you have in your account. And, like I mentioned, there are ways of limiting his spending so he doesn’t even get the chance to get into that much debt.

I am sorry if that’s how it came out, I meant separate finances only in case of separation, because I knew people whose spiteful ex-es took their salaries from joint accounts and left them with nothing, literally, and while they are still together a separate account in case he spends more than he himself makes, as a way of ensuring that he cannot take her salary and do as he pleases. Not to let him off the hook and forget about his part in the family budget or never to ask about his bills anymore. (Which he is secretive about already.)
Again, here we don’t even have joint accounts anymore, they are in one person’s name and the other has an additional card for the same account, but you can always go to the bank and cancel it. I don’t know all the options available in other countries, obviously.

I was just thinking about ways OP can protect herself and the kids from his irresponsibility if he doesn’t change his ways.

If I were in his position, and I spent the money I make, and then took from the money my husband makes, and he never did anything to stop me, why should I change my habits? He could talk all he wants, but without any real consequences…

 

[momof3inOR]

Thanks for these helpful replies. I just don’t know how to live with a man like this.

He just told me that he wants to use our son’s savings to pay for the private school. There’s not even enough! He is desperate.

 

[The_Bucket]

Thanks for these helpful replies. I just don’t know how to live with a man like this.

He just told me that he wants to use our son’s savings to pay for the private school. There’s not even enough! He is desperate.

Just tell him that you’re not going to do it, that it’s not a big deal that the kids go to public school and to get over it. If he flips out, he flips out. Then tell him his reaction is far from manly and if he wants to act like a kid he’ll get treated like a kid and have the decisions taken away from him.

Until the dude wants to grow up he should indeed be treated like a child. I also wonder if something more nefarious is at play. I know in my life when I’ve been dealing with persistent sin, I become terrified at everything, immature and alternatively, angry. I certainly hope nothing like that is going on, though I guess it could be easier to address than pure immaturity. Ripping out the sin has radically changed my life and how I deal with basically everything.

 

[momof3inOR]

I am considering going and talking with a bankruptcy attorney. At the very least, trying to find a cash car and let our car get repo’d. Unfortunately, he will NEVER go for that. I think I need to do this on my own. I can’t tell him or world war 3 will break out.

Also… It’s been awhile, but he has threatened suicide before.

 

[The_Bucket]

Dude’s got problems and I wish I could provide better advice. You really need to talk to a priest about the situation and what you can do to protect yourself and your kids financially and possibly physically since in your OP you said he’s been “aggressive.”

Sadly, I know all about emotional abuse and it’s because I was that guy. I never berated my wife or anything like that, but it was real passive-aggressive stuff that did some emotional damage. It all stemmed from self-hatred due to a sinful addiction and while it’s only been a few months since I did a 180 turn on all that, things are way, way better. I’m happier and more peaceful. She’s happier. The kids are acting better. I’m not as worried about money as I used to be. Still cautious of course because we’re not wealthy by any means, but not freaking out every second of the day over dumb things.

Again, I truly hope nothing like that is going down, but if it is, I can say that being forced to address it and tear it out of your life can and does work. But you can’t threaten. You can’t cajole. You can’t say “I’m going to leave if you don’t do X.” You just do what you have to in terms of protecting yourself and your kids and he can choose to stop the insanity or spiral into it by himself.