My most recent Novus Ordo experience

[paperwight66]

I have to confess that I misread your words here. You seem to be talking about the word comedite and not accipite as I previously thought.

I do find the meaning of “eating up, consume” in my Latin-English dictionary. Even “devour” if used in context with the eyes, so you may be right on that.

However, if you look at the word “edite” which means simply “eat,” and add the prefix “com-” to “edite,” it’s hard to see an explicit “chew” or “gnaw” meaning in that. But that’s my take on the matter.

I was remembering a post from some time ago, which pointed out that the word (in Aramaic and reported in Greek) used by Our Lord was the word used in relation to eating ordinary food.

He did not speak in Latin, so dissecting a Latin text is of little use, IMO.

Either way, He did not instruct us to ‘suck the Host’, or ‘retain It in the mouth until soft’. He said ‘Eat’.

 

[malphono]

They took communion in the hand, which I have grown accustomed to seeing, but then** consumed it like a potato chip**.

The bolded portion is interesting, and prompts a question: does it mean people bit-off pieces and nibbled them, or does it mean they put it in their mouths whole and then crunched?

 

[ProVobis]

I was remembering a post from some time ago, which pointed out that the word (in Aramaic and reported in Greek) used by Our Lord was the word used in relation to eating ordinary food.

We don’t know for sure whether Christ spoke these words in Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic but could you provide at least the Greek source for this with a definite interpretation or derivation?

 

[malphono]

We don’t know for sure whether Christ spoke these words in Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic but could you provide at least the Greek source for this with a definite interpretation or derivation?

Greek was not particularly common in the Levant, and Hebrew was, by that time, more of a liturgical language than anything else, used mainly by Jewish priests. Which leaves the local dialect of Aramaic. In any case, though, the normal verb “to eat” in both Aramaic and Hebrew (and in Arabic too, for that matter) derive from the exact same Semitic root. As far as I am aware, what would have been used was that very same everyday verb, rather than some esoteric verb having a specific connotation of “chomp” or “gnaw” or “dissolve in the mouth” or anything of the sort. The context was, after all, at table, so I have to agree that what was used was the word used for humans eating normal, ordinary food. BTW, it is also the very same verb used in the various recensions of the Syriac liturgies.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

As Catholics we have a right to a properly celebrated Mass. We also have a duty to protect the Blessed Sacrament. There are several issues in this parish the most serious being the risk of desecration. When good people allow bad things to happen it hurts us all.

I have experienced similar problematic OF masses all over the US, as have many others on this forum. My experience in Sandy, Utah, last month caused me to wonder if I was even in a Catholic church! Why is it that every time an example is mentioned it becomes the OP who is at fault? The fact is that the OF is out of control at many parishes around the country and blaming the messenger isn’t going to ever correct the problem, nor will changing a few words in the Mass prayers next November?

 

[ProVobis]

Greek was not particularly common in the Levant, and Hebrew was, by that time, more of a liturgical language than anything else, used mainly by Jewish priests. Which leaves the local dialect of Aramaic.

I’ve posed this question on another forum and I might as well ask it here. Laying aside whether the Apostles had already been de facto bishops, would it have been more significant if the Last Supper were spoken in Hebrew from a worship perspective?

 

[OraLabora]

Well here is my experience of the OF Mass last week.

First on Tuesday I attended daily 7 am Mass at St. Joseph’s Oratory in Montreal, at the crypt church. I arrived about 40 min. before Mass; and the church was silent except for a ticking clock, very conducive to prayer so I was able to pray the Office of Readings and Lauds. The rubrics for Mass were followed 100%. The priest used a small amount of plainchant at the acclamation after the gospel, at the Mystery of the Faith and at the doxology . The entrance and communion antiphons were recited. The Alleluia was properly sung on a simple but pleasant tone. The priest gave an excellent short, biting homily. Communion was at a communion rail, kneeling. All in all, it took just under 30 min and was properly reverential, yet simple.

Then Sunday, at the local abbey. Propers and Ordinary in Latin Gregorian chant. The rest in French plainchant. Beautiful organ playing 10 min before Mass and at the offertory and exit procession. Incense, and bells. No EMHCs.

Remember, both cases were OF.

Why to people keep hitting on the OF, and not, instead, on those who poorly execute the OF???

 

[Ockham]

Because what you describe although beautiful is not common.

Watch the webcast of this parish for an idea what goes on outside your community:
stedward.org/default.aspx?url_category_id=47&v_Menu_LeftDir=Asc&site=3

St. Joseph’s is on my ‘must visit soon’ list. You are very lucky.

 

[malphono]

I’ve posed this question on another forum and I might as well ask it here. Laying aside whether the Apostles had already been de facto bishops, would it have been more significant if the Last Supper were spoken in Hebrew from a worship perspective?

To me, no. One has to keep in mind that Hebrew and Aramaic are very close, similar in their way to Polish and Ukrainian. Also, the dialect of Aramaic used at the time is often called “Palestinian Jewish Aramaic” which itself incorporates a number Hebraicisms. In its own way, it resembles Ladino (with relation to Spanish) and even Yiddish (with relation to German).

 

[michaelpoloniae]

I was raised going to the OF mass and have attended it until I found a local parish that celebrated the EF mass. I had issues with the OF mass back when I wasn’t even aware an EF mass was available to me.

I think it’s wrong and inaccurate to assume “Well, this guy was going into the thing looking for a reason to keep going to a Latin mass”. Wrong. I went to mass to fulfill an obligation. And I felt as if the parishioners impeded my efforts to do so.

I understand that COTH is allowed, and if parishioners feel that’s a respectful way to receive The Lord than so be it. But yes, as I mentioned, people were eating it like they were in a Pringles commercial. One bite. Two bites. Putting it in their mouths mid-stride, with their backs almost to the altar, halfway down the aisle back to their pew. Indeed, those might be simple annoyances rather than concerns.

What is a concern, however, is these parishioners are rude and show a lack respect. Like the young couple sitting next to me. It wasn’t until I scolded the guy that he asked his girlfriend to stop checking her blackberry for messages. Or people reclining in their pews or standing with their hands in their pockets or arms folded.

But I don’t see how anyone can defend standing during the consecration. These weren’t handicapped or elderly people that were unable to show reverence by kneeling. These were simply clueless people. One has to doubt if they are even Catholic (not because the lack of respect, but by the visible confusion on what was going on during mass). How can the priest ignore this?

I went to the OF mass because, after all, a Catholic mass is a Catholic mass regardless of the rite. But one has to wonder if SSPX and FSSP are not on to something. While I completely disapprove and denounce SSPX rejecting the Holy See and breaking communion with the church, their respect and devotion of traditional values is commendable.

 

[malphono]

But yes, as I mentioned, people were eating it like they were in a Pringles commercial. One bite. Two bites. Putting it in their mouths mid-stride, with their backs almost to the altar, halfway down the aisle back to their pew. Indeed, those might be simple annoyances rather than concerns.

I’d say it’s more of a concern than a simple annoyance. Crunching in one bite is one thing, but nibbling as if it were a crispy-crunchy in something else. Ever notice the fine dust (i.e. crumbs) from Pringles (or any other crunchy)? Now, would it make any difference to bring it up? Probably not. Personally, I’d just steer-clear of the place. Or else, if there were no other option, I’s sit in the last row, with eyes down. Better not see the circus than to get upset with what one cannot do anything about.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

Well here is my experience of the OF Mass last week.

First on Tuesday I attended daily 7 am Mass at St. Joseph’s Oratory in Montreal, at the crypt church. I arrived about 40 min. before Mass; and the church was silent except for a ticking clock, very conducive to prayer so I was able to pray the Office of Readings and Lauds. The rubrics for Mass were followed 100%. The priest used a small amount of plainchant at the acclamation after the gospel, at the Mystery of the Faith and at the doxology . The entrance and communion antiphons were recited. The Alleluia was properly sung on a simple but pleasant tone. The priest gave an excellent short, biting homily. Communion was at a communion rail, kneeling. All in all, it took just under 30 min and was properly reverential, yet simple.

Then Sunday, at the local abbey. Propers and Ordinary in Latin Gregorian chant. The rest in French plainchant. Beautiful organ playing 10 min before Mass and at the offertory and exit procession. Incense, and bells. No EMHCs.

Remember, both cases were OF.

Why to people keep hitting on the OF, and not, instead, on those who poorly execute the OF???

Wow! I sure wish we that around here, you are very fortunate indeed.

 

[laszlo]

Why to people keep hitting on the OF, and not, instead, on those who poorly execute the OF???

I concur with the question, adding that I lived before the New Mass was established, and there were badly executed masses in that time too, including drunk priest, mass hastened in less that 20 minutes, improper clothing,

The problems come not from the Mass itself, that can be celebrated in very proper and reverent way; the problem comes that liberty was given to the lower clergy and to the laity, and people are not mature enough.

 

[ConstantineTG]

But I don’t see how anyone can defend standing during the consecration. These weren’t handicapped or elderly people that were unable to show reverence by kneeling. These were simply clueless people. One has to doubt if they are even Catholic (not because the lack of respect, but by the visible confusion on what was going on during mass). How can the priest ignore this?

Eastern Catholics stand for Consecration. Maybe they’re visiting?

 

[thistle]

I was raised going to the OF mass and have attended it until I found a local parish that celebrated the EF mass. I had issues with the OF mass back when I wasn’t even aware an EF mass was available to me.

I think it’s wrong and inaccurate to assume “Well, this guy was going into the thing looking for a reason to keep going to a Latin mass”. Wrong. I went to mass to fulfill an obligation. And I felt as if the parishioners impeded my efforts to do so.

I understand that COTH is allowed, and if parishioners feel that’s a respectful way to receive The Lord than so be it. But yes, as I mentioned, people were eating it like they were in a Pringles commercial. One bite. Two bites. Putting it in their mouths mid-stride, with their backs almost to the altar, halfway down the aisle back to their pew. Indeed, those might be simple annoyances rather than concerns.

What is a concern, however, is these parishioners are rude and show a lack respect. Like the young couple sitting next to me. It wasn’t until I scolded the guy that he asked his girlfriend to stop checking her blackberry for messages. Or people reclining in their pews or standing with their hands in their pockets or arms folded.

But I don’t see how anyone can defend standing during the consecration. These weren’t handicapped or elderly people that were unable to show reverence by kneeling. These were simply clueless people. One has to doubt if they are even Catholic (not because the lack of respect, but by the visible confusion on what was going on during mass). How can the priest ignore this?

I went to the OF mass because, after all, a Catholic mass is a Catholic mass regardless of the rite. But one has to wonder if SSPX and FSSP are not on to something. While I completely disapprove and denounce SSPX rejecting the Holy See and breaking communion with the church, their respect and devotion of traditional values is commendable.

St John of the Cross has a description of people like you.

QUOTE

Some souls suffer from another kind of spiritual anger. They watch over others with a kind of restless fervor, perpetually annoyed by the transgressions they perceive. The impulse arises to reprove the other souls in an angry way. Sometimes they indulge this nasty urge, elevating themselves as masters of virtue. This is all quite contrary to spiritual meekness.

UNQUOTE

 

[zab]

After attending two Latin Masses, my most recent Novus Ordo experience was having a new appreciation for hearing all of the prayers and readings in English, my native tongue.

 

[Ockham]

St John of the Cross has a description of people like you.

QUOTE

Some souls suffer from another kind of spiritual anger. They watch over others with a kind of restless fervor, perpetually annoyed by the transgressions they perceive. The impulse arises to reprove the other souls in an angry way. Sometimes they indulge this nasty urge, elevating themselves as masters of virtue. This is all quite contrary to spiritual meekness.

UNQUOTE

Are you saying that we must turn a blind eye to liturgical abuse and the risk of desecration?

 

[Ockham]

After attending two Latin Masses, my most recent Novus Ordo experience was having a new appreciation for hearing all of the prayers and readings in English, my native tongue.

That’s how Martin Luther felt too.

 

[ProVobis]

St John of the Cross has a description of people like you.

QUOTE

Some souls suffer from another kind of spiritual anger. They watch over others with a kind of restless fervor, perpetually annoyed by the transgressions they perceive. The impulse arises to reprove the other souls in an angry way. Sometimes they indulge this nasty urge, elevating themselves as masters of virtue. This is all quite contrary to spiritual meekness.

UNQUOTE

Perhaps because they themselves never got away with these transgressions?

No one is as critical of another going one mile over the speed limit than one who just got a ticket for doing the same.

 

[ProVobis]

After attending two Latin Masses, my most recent Novus Ordo experience was having a new appreciation for hearing all of the prayers and readings in English, my native tongue.

Ouch!