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h1478971
Guest
Many reverent Novus Ordos??? Where is there a Novus ordo Mass where communion in the hand is banned and women are barred from the sanctuary? If that somewhere exists I want to know where these reverent Masses are.
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zab
Guest
I doubt that anyone who thinks that they are more revernt than the pope will find one.
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Bbigam
Guest
I believe ones like what you describe above do exist… but are those your only measures of reverence? I’ve been to plenty of Masses that were reverent even though Communion in the hand was an option (a licit option that I do not exercise but many do) and with female altar servers (which I don’t prefer but are a licit option).
I’d be more concerned with whether people are actually quiet before and after Mass, genuflect and kneel at the appropriate times, participate appropriately*, and teach children to do the same.
*Lest anyone misunderstand me - I don’t mean participate by being part of a huge team of Extraordinary Ministers and the Liturgical Dance Team. I mean by making the responses, gestures, and postures appropriate to the congregation, and being attentive.
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John_of_Woking
Guest
I go to an OF mass. Communion rails. Kneeling…communion on the tongue. Excellent and challenging homiles. I acknowledge I am very blessed. 
I would say that about 50% - 75% of OF Masses I have been to in various parts of the UK are reverently celebrated here.
In my limited experience the EF does seem more reverently celebrated than most OF Masses. This is just my experience. I also beleive Latin is a unifying force and as a convert I beleive that many OF masses do seem to be protestant-ised.
I wish the EF was celebrated more regularly in the UK.
That being said I go to Mass to get receive the Body, Blood, Soul & Divinity of Christ and I can go to an OF Mass to communicate reverently and worship.
I just find it hard to beleive that anyone out there can really deny that the EF is beautiful. Also Can anyone hand on heart really say that the OF is more reverent than the EF. Equally…maybe but more? Really?
I would say that about 50% - 75% of OF Masses I have been to in various parts of the UK are reverently celebrated here.
In my limited experience the EF does seem more reverently celebrated than most OF Masses. This is just my experience. I also beleive Latin is a unifying force and as a convert I beleive that many OF masses do seem to be protestant-ised.
I wish the EF was celebrated more regularly in the UK.
That being said I go to Mass to get receive the Body, Blood, Soul & Divinity of Christ and I can go to an OF Mass to communicate reverently and worship.
I just find it hard to beleive that anyone out there can really deny that the EF is beautiful. Also Can anyone hand on heart really say that the OF is more reverent than the EF. Equally…maybe but more? Really?
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zab
Guest
Our church had the Communion rails removed in the early 70’s so we do stand for reception of Communion with the exception of the EF Mass when the prie dieu are put up front. And we do have women that serve as EMHC and as lectors at the OF Masses. They respectfully follow the directives set by our pastor. Our Masses are very reverently celebrated. We do sing Latin (and Greek for the Kyrie) and for various parts of the Mass. Incense is used quite often. We have a large number of altar servers, all boys that are well trained by our pastor. And our pastor gives excellent homilies. (However, we do do experience occassional problems with certain substitute priests.) While I do think there is a certain mysteriousness with the celebration of the EF, I do not believe or feel that it is more reverent than the OF. The Mass is the Mass no matter if it is celebrated in the OF or the EF. The reverence of the Mass can often be associated with how reverent the priest celebrates it.
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Ockham
Guest
It’s surprising how many people here claim their Novus Ordo is as reverent as any TLM. If this is true then I wonder why the Pope and senior clergy keep talking about a ‘reform of the reform’.
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ProVobis
Guest
IMO, if the liturgy doesn’t follow Vatican II’s “reforms” (Latin, Gregorian Chant, organ, etc.) it can definitely be made more reverent. Clearly the Church wants to move in this direction.
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zab
Guest
Do you think that the pope’s Mass in OF is less reverent that a TLM by my pastor?
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Ockham
Guest
There is less reverence in the NO than the TLM. It’s common here to see posts claiming their NO is just as reverent as any TLM.
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zab
Guest
I have only seen your posts that say this “as any TLM”. Others have said that the Mass in OF can be just as reverent as the TLM. Here is one example:
youtube.com/watch?v=CAf7nlRfOtA
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Layman
Guest
One does not exclude the other.
No, that does not follow. But funnily enough, all White Americans speak English, anyway. Very uniting.
Should minorities dictate what the majority do? But again, funnily enough, all American minorities speak English … because it unifies them with other Americans.
Ah yes, the old ‘what would Jesus do?’ and ‘Can’t we all get along?’ arguments. Which ignore the refinements in our worship since the year 1AD and the practicalities of worshipping our Master after his Ascension.
Roman Catholic Church
Latin Mass.
Simple.
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estesbob
Guest
It is in my parish. I’m sorry you do not have the opportunity to attend a reverent NO in your area. I suspect I could start a thread for old altar boys like myself to report the irreverence we often encountered at TLM masses in the late 50s early 60s. I can recall vividly Msgr. , for instance, throwing the towel in my face after drying his hands because I presented it to him wrong. Of course it was 6:20 in the morning and none of us were in a very good moods
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Ockham
Guest
And I suppose he was drunk yet still said the Mass in fifteen minutes, right?
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Layman
Guest
What does reverence mean in the context of a Mass?
I propose that it means addressing the object of worship with as much grandeur, sacrifice and humility as you can muster.
So harshly editing the text, stripping out fittings, dropping the sacred language, letting unvested laypeople in the sanctuary, replacing COTT, kneeling with CITH, standing, replacing ancient hymns with simple-minded folky ones and the priest facing the congregation, instead of the object of worship, make no sense.
Thus, fans of the N.O. have to make the argument that it’s internal reverence that counts. Because the outer reverence has been stripped away.
I propose that it means addressing the object of worship with as much grandeur, sacrifice and humility as you can muster.
So harshly editing the text, stripping out fittings, dropping the sacred language, letting unvested laypeople in the sanctuary, replacing COTT, kneeling with CITH, standing, replacing ancient hymns with simple-minded folky ones and the priest facing the congregation, instead of the object of worship, make no sense.
Thus, fans of the N.O. have to make the argument that it’s internal reverence that counts. Because the outer reverence has been stripped away.
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estesbob
Guest
No-why would you say that? Is it normal for the Priest to say the Tridentine Latin Mass drunk???
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Ockham
Guest
I doubt it. Those are the two TLM liturgical abuses cited by Novus Ordo proponents.
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estesbob
Guest
Actually the fans of the Tridentine Latin Mass have to make the argument that theirs and only their way of showing reverence is correct. For instance there is nothing fundamentally ireverent about a priest facing the congregation or receiving communion in the hand. Just because you consider it ireverent does not make it so
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Ockham
Guest
Actually, it is.
With the priest facing the people saying Mass on a table the focus is removed from where it is intended. If CITH was as reverent as COTT why do the rubics call for additional actions to be performed?
Also, when the laity is walking in and around the sanctuary, focus leaves God and is put on man.
Just for the record, the NO is valid and licit.
The Novus Ordo can be said properly but it’s very structure is a simplified and relaxed liturgy - not exactly components of reverence.
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ProVobis
Guest
You mean putting more cooks into the kitchen doesn’t make the food taste better?
I shouldn’t laugh. I actually heard that in defense of all the laity surrounding the altar.
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estesbob
Guest
In your opinion. In my opinion having the priest turn his back on you and sticking your tongue out at him when you recieve communion is irrelevant. Fortunately each of us can attend mass in the way we find most reverent
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