My name is Peter. Please help

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Right. Sometimes a person has to say something to their spouse that doesn’t need to be refereed by their parents. And sometimes it needs to be said in a loud voice.

Aside from that, it’s really hard living under a divided loyalty. A married person must put their spouse and children first and in order to do that, they need to be the authority in their own home, however, they are also obligated to respect the authority of any other adults, and particularly their parents, in their own home. You can’t have too many chiefs in your tribe or you’re headed for chaos.
These are people problems–not living arrangement problems. I’ve never felt divided loyalty between my parents and my wife–my parents never put me in that situation. When we lived their my wife and I never had a hard time finding a place to talk and I can’t think of a time that we would have needed a “referee”–in 26 years I’ve never needed to say anything to my wife in a loud voice (now the kids that’s a different matter). My parents do not offer unsolicited advice butting in when it’s not their business – even when we lived there. I’m sure there have been times when they may have wanted too, but they respect us and keep appropriate boundaries. It was my parents home but they didn’t treat our living space–as theirs and respected our privacy. They didn’t treat us like kids and we didn’t treat them like parents–we treated each other like adults. We didn’t get grilled like teenagers if we were out late and we did our best to let them know we’d be late. My parents have always been there to help and really it’s no questions asked for the most part. I am having a hard time thinking of a situation where I didn’t have authority over my family while living with my parents or of where this conflicted with my parents authority. We have lived in our own house for about 23 years and I haven’t found it to be all that much different from when we lived with my parents. When you talk about authority and conflicts and divided loyalty–what kind of things are you imagining?

Disclosure Please note I am not making a universal statement intended to apply to everyone–I am simply relating my experience–and fully realize that this is not the case for most people.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
You seem to be implying that because most people want healthy boundaries between themselves and their parents they can’t enjoy time spent together
No, but I would say you are implying that you can’t have healthy boundaries if you reside with your parents–and I disagree. I think most people want healthy boundaries between themselves and their parents–I just don’t think living arrangements are what determine this. I think you can find plenty of examples of people who do not have healthy boundaries between themselves and their parents and who do not live together. We’re people with a fallen nature.

Disclosure I acknowledge that not living with parents might help those boundaries develop but I suggest it is not determinative.

The peace of Christ,
Mark****
 
I never said it would be unreasonable and in none of my posts did I ever suggest he shouldn’t move out–and my issue is not with suggesting that they do so – if it is economically possible–my issue is with the way he’s been told to move out and what’s been implied regarding the fact that he ever moved in with them in the first place.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
I think the reason so many people have responded so harshly to your idea that living with parents/in-laws is sometimes a good idea is that most people’s relationships with their in-laws is neutral/slightly above neutral at best. This is especially true for mothers-in-law and daughters-in-law, even when they’re not living together. For many young wives, mothers-in-law come along with harsh criticism, judgements about parenting styles, and a general sense of intimidation. There are plenty of young wives out there who feel overridden by their mothers-in-law…even when they are not living together. Furthermore, there are plenty of parents who have trouble cutting the apron strings, and that is only intensified if they continue to live with their adult children.

So, with the limited information the OP provided, one might take offense at the fact that he is putting most of the blame on his wife for things not going well, when there are plenty of wives out there who would crumble if they had to live with their mother-in-law. And then you implied, whether you meant to or not, that people who don’t want to live with in-laws are selfish. And from there, I think many people just went on the defense.

It’s just generally a sensitive topic for a lot of people.
 
Around the world, just about everywhere you go, there are mother-in-law jokes.
Care to take a look at the number of sitcoms we’ve had over the past two decades or longer that make husbands look like incompetent idiots, buffoons and who are the butt of jokes? What do you want to make of that?
If extended family living was usually idyllic, that wouldn’t be the case.
If married life on your own was so idyllic that wouldn’t be the case.
Also I have to add that being around in-laws can put a crimp in spousal communication. Which is why it’s especially a bad idea for newlyweds or new parents, who are adjusting to a new situation, and need to be able to have full and frank communication, without having to resort to old-time KGB type communication methods and without third and fourth parties joining in with opinions.
Take a look at the divorce rate – apparently communication and family living in general isn’t so idyllic regardless of living arrangements. Lets not give ones living arrangements more credit than they deserve.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
I think the reason so many people have responded so harshly to your idea that living with parents/in-laws is sometimes a good idea is that most people’s relationships with their in-laws is neutral/slightly above neutral at best. This is especially true for mothers-in-law and daughters-in-law, even when they’re not living together. For many young wives, mothers-in-law come along with harsh criticism, judgements about parenting styles, and a general sense of intimidation. There are plenty of young wives out there who feel overridden by their mothers-in-law…even when they are not living together. Furthermore, there are plenty of parents who have trouble cutting the apron strings, and that is only intensified if they continue to live with their adult children.

So, with the limited information the OP provided, one might take offense at the fact that he is putting most of the blame on his wife for things not going well, when there are plenty of wives out there who would crumble if they had to live with their mother-in-law. And then you implied, whether you meant to or not, that people who don’t want to live with in-laws are selfish. And from there, I think many people just went on the defense.

It’s just generally a sensitive topic for a lot of people.
Right. Again, there’s often a gender dimension to living with in-laws. A daughter-in-law is often going to feel judged and feel compelled to “look busy” all the time in a way that makes it hard to enjoy life at home.
 
Take a look at the divorce rate – apparently communication and family living in general isn’t so idyllic regardless of living arrangements. Lets not give ones living arrangements more credit than they deserve.
Mark
The more adults there are in a given situation, the harder it is to get to an agreement, and the more effort needs to be spent on just managing the relationship.

It’s often easier to love certain people from a distance.
 
The more adults there are in a given situation, the harder it is to get to an agreement, and the more effort needs to be spent on just managing the relationship.

It’s often easier to love certain people from a distance.
Yes. And it is only natural for a problem to exist if there are 2 motherly types in the same house. Not to mention the problem for males when there are two men who should be the fathers of their own house in the same house.
 
Yes. And it is only natural for a problem to exist if there are 2 motherly types in the same house. Not to mention the problem for males when there are two men who should be the fathers of their own house in the same house.
True story: MIL (a wonderful person) initially wanted to be called “mom” by our kids because she thought “grandma” sounded old.

She’s given up on that, but based on how she signs notes to me, I think she still wants me to call her “mom,” which makes my skin literally creep.
 
Yes. And it is only natural for a problem to exist if there are 2 motherly types in the same house. Not to mention the problem for males when there are two men who should be the fathers of their own house in the same house.
I am seeing this a lot–“men who should be fathers of their own house in the same house”–what kind of issues are you referring to? Where do you see the two men bumping heads and unable to be “fathers of their own house” because they reside in the same residence? Seeking to understand where the rest of your have run into issues and were prevented from being the father of your family by someone else because you resided with them. Thank you.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
I am seeing this a lot–“men who should be fathers of their own house in the same house”–what kind of issues are you referring to? Where do you see the two men bumping heads and unable to be “fathers of their own house” because they reside in the same residence? Seeking to understand where the rest of your have run into issues and were prevented from being the father of your family by someone else because you resided with them. Thank you.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
To take one more stab at it, a husband and wife/mother and father often enjoy being king and queen of their own castle.

When they are living in somebody else’s castle, it’s harder to act with the same degree of autonomy, confidence and authority.

Edited to add: Spending too much time with in-laws can be like losing your kingdom. Which I suspect is what has happened to the OP’s wife.
 
]**Mark,getting back to the OP, and also many other threads that have been posted in Family life, more often than not in these situations the man is too subject to his parents to stand up for his wife, so he only locks heads with his wife, not his parents.

So often wives have mourned the fact that the husband won’t stand up for his wife, or sides with his parents.

Some people’s experience may been different for whatever reason, maybe the spouse is very quiet and just takes whatever, just suffering a sense of hurt and possible abandonment from her husband because sons are more inclined to side with their mothers.

I never made a fuss when even living separate from my inlaws, my mother-in-law was too intrusive in a kind sort of way, but a very much I know best way, and my husband always thought his mother was perfect. I never made a fuss, but it sure hurt a lot. It was years before my husband stopped comparing me with his mother, and putting his parents first.

I behaved well, but underneath I came to resent his parents very much. Resentment does not bring out the best in people, as it doesn’t in Peter’s wife. I understand that.

I put up with it, but it caused me a lot of hurt and loneliness, because through his behavior I felt my husband didn’t really love me, and he definitely was more concerned about how his parents felt and what they wanted than he cared about my needs**

You have your good experience, and have repeatedly defended it,
but a lot of women do have the worst of the effect of living with the inlaws, or from the inlaws.
It’s about your husband really being your husband.
It’s about housekeeping and children, and that is far more involving than what a couple of men do around a house they share. Their position is more recreational, the wife’s involvement with her babies and her home are far more elemental.

:slapfight::blessyou:

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I am seeing this a lot–“men who should be fathers of their own house in the same house”–what kind of issues are you referring to? Where do you see the two men bumping heads and unable to be “fathers of their own house” because they reside in the same residence? Seeking to understand where the rest of your have run into issues and were prevented from being the father of your family by someone else because you resided with them. Thank you.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
When you’re living with your parents in the house in which you grew up, it can be hard to assert oneself as an adult, much less as a married couple who need to set their own rules, traditions, and so on. Oftentimes, even if the relationship is genuinely excellent between the two generations, it can be hard for the child who grew up in that house not to be somewhat passive while living there because they’re his/her parents. Passivity can be excruciatingly irritating in a relationship, to put it mildly.

Here’s one very small example. DH and I get along really well with his parents. I like them very much, and wish they lived closer.

However, when we’re at their house, DH tends to revert to being a “kid.” This is probably not helped by the fact that there are still a lot of younger siblings living at home.

His parents generally offer to babysit for us while we go on a date. I would love this–nothing personal at all to my in-laws, who, as I said, I like, but DH and I don’t have a regular babysitter, so being able to go on a date is a Big Deal. DH will shrug, say “maybe,” and carry on hanging out and doing whatever his siblings are doing (gaming, watching TV, etc) while I take care of DD. I then get angrier and more resentful over the course of the stay because I’m easily doing 99% of DD’s care, and he seems to not even care enough about me to take a couple of hours to go out to dinner if hanging out with his siblings is an option. It’s almost like he forgets about being a husband when he’s home with the family, even though he’s a pretty darn good one when we’re at our place.

As another example, DH comes from a big family who tend to keep night hours and who, because of the sheer number of people there, tend to carry on most conversations at the top of their voices in order to be heard. They don’t mean it in anger–it’s just evolved to that point because there are so many people always talking all at once. I do not like yelling, even if it’s not in an argument, and it really stresses me out…especially when I’m woken up by it.

His parents make a point of giving us our own room while we’re there. I can’t, however, keep the hours that everyone else does: DD will be up by 6:30, so I can’t stay up and talk until 2 AM or later like they can. However, they’ll periodically stand right outside my door and have a conversation at the tops of their voices at 1 AM. It’s not reasonable for me to expect them to shift their schedules by several hours, but it also leads to a lot of resentment because I’m tired all day on top of being the sole caregiver for DD while everyone else has fun. (And, as Xantippe has mentioned, this house is like most American houses in that it’s just not set up for multigenerational living: all the bedrooms are off of the main living areas.)

And this, as I said, is an in-law/son-and-DIL relationship that I suspect is better than 99% of the ones out there. We all love each other very much…and living under the same roof would translate to massive resentment and irritation on a long-term basis.

ETA: from a simply practical perspective, being with in-laws carries this small but significant thing that pertains to guys but not women. It would be vastly inappropriate for me to hang out with my brothers- and father-in-law while not wearing a bra and in comfortable pjs. Guys, however, can throw on a t-shirt and a pair of cotton shorts and be quite appropriate for mixed company.
 
Mark,getting back to the OP, and also many other threads that have been posted in Family life, more often than not in these situations the man is too subject to his parents to stand up for his wife, so he only locks heads with his wife, not his parents.

So often wives have mourned the fact that the husband won’t stand up for his wife, or sides with his parents.

Some people’s experience may been different for whatever reason, maybe the spouse is very quiet and just takes whatever, just suffering a sense of hurt and possible abandonment from her husband because sons are more inclined to side with their mothers.
I never made a fuss when even living separate from my inlaws, my mother-in-law was too intrusive in a kind sort of way, but a very much I know best way, and my husband always thought his mother was perfect. I never made a fuss, but it sure hurt a lot. It was years before my husband stopped comparing me with his mother, and putting his parents first.

You have your experience, and have repeatedly defended it, but a lot of women do have the worst of the effect of living with the inlaws, or from the inlaws. It’s about housekeeping and children, and that is far more involving than what a couple of men do around a house they share. Their position is more recreational, the wife’s involvement with her babies and her home are far more elemental.
Right.

I know when we used to visit my in-laws with two little kids, being around my FIL made it really hard to ask my husband for help. See, the kids were 100% supposed to be my job, even when we were on vacation over the holidays. If I couldn’t manage them perfectly all day for a week in a strange house with no baby gates or baby-proofing and no access to transportation and with them not napping because their schedule was thrown off, that was just my incompetence. As FIL used to mutter under his breath, “Lots of women have five kids and do JUST FINE.” (FIL and MIL only raised two widely-spaced children, with lots of help from both grandmas and a nanny at one point.)

For some reason, I haven’t visited my in-laws’ house for quite a while. I find it more restful to send my husband with the two oldest and stay home with the baby.
 
To take one more stab at it, a husband and wife/mother and father often enjoy being king and queen of their own castle.

When they are living in somebody else’s castle, it’s harder to act with the same degree of autonomy, confidence and authority.

Edited to add: Spending too much time with in-laws can be like losing your kingdom. Which I suspect is what has happened to the OP’s wife.
That is a very good comparison-being king or queen of your castle. The economic conditions have been pretty bad the past 7 years and many people have lost their homes or lost their jobs so I think it is good that families pull together in times like this and offer a hand. It is better than seeing a beloved family member homeless or living out of their car. Also knowing a situation is temporary and not permanent.
Did the OP ever return?
 
I’m in agreement with Ubi.

I enjoy my FIL and at certain times…my MIL as well.

I know my husband loves my parents and my sister and BIL.

We went on a trip to Florida with my whole family last year.

Once again…my husband loves his in-laws who treat him like another son…but that trip was too much.
We were at the starting point of having some serious financial issues and my husband reluctantly agreed to the trip despite not wanting to go (which sounds very familiar to a lot of situations that result in families living with in-laws).

It was a disaster. A total disaster that resulted in some of the worst fights my husband and I ever had in the course of our entire relationship…all 7 years we had been together.
It brought out the worst in us both.

I sided with my parents and sister…because, well…they are my family and it’s hard to tell them what is up…especially when we are under the same roof.
My husband was isolated and felt like he was coerced into something he didn’t want to do.

We fought the entire duration of that trip and continued to fight about for weeks after it ended. I seriously thought we would need Marriage counseling to sort through the mess.

It’s hard to explain…I really wish I could put my finger on what went so wrong. I felt like the OP in this instance. It was my family…a family I loved and still love for my whole life. A family I know has quirks but still love them all the same.
But…it only took a week for my husband to start really breaking down over it.

Our routines were suddenly different, he had nothing in common with my sister and BIL and felt emasculated whenever my dad tried to interfere and do things like drive, pay for meals, decide on what to do and where to go.

He felt trapped and what went from being a nice family vacation…one that I had taken so many times with my family and had great memories from…turned into the biggest marriage crisis my husband and I had encountered up until that point.
 
That is a very good comparison-being king or queen of your castle. The economic conditions have been pretty bad the past 7 years and many people have lost their homes or lost their jobs so I think it is good that families pull together in times like this and offer a hand. It is better than seeing a beloved family member homeless or living out of their car. Also knowing a situation is temporary and not permanent.
Did the OP ever return?
I think he headed for the hills. Too many of us saying the same thing. Only a couple poor guys standing in his place.

Peace 7S. Nice to see you. Hope you’re having a great day! 🙂

-Trident
 
I think he headed for the hills. Too many of us saying the same thing. Only a couple poor guys standing in his place.

Peace 7S. Nice to see you. Hope you’re having a great day! 🙂

-Trident
Still to early in the morning to tell yet, but thanks for the good wishes! hope you will have a good day as well! 🙂
 
Once again…my husband loves his in-laws who treat him like another son…
I think that can actually be part of the problem, at least on longer visits or trips.

What if the son-in-law or daughter-in-law doesn’t want to be treated like one of the children in the family, but would like to be treated as a responsible adult who just happens to be married to one of the children in the family?
 
It’s also hard to assert oneself with one’s parents when that person is financially dependent on the parents. As a young adult, my parents paid completely for my education throughout all my years of college. I was reminded quite frequently that they were the ones paying for everything, so I’d better do what they said. By this I mean, I wasn’t allowed out of the dorm after a certain hour, I couldn’t get in a car with anyone until my parents (not just me) knew and trusted them, and things like that. Therefore I had very little of a social life and didn’t develop much self-confidence or ability to trust my own judgment in making my own decisions. But what could I do? How could I stand up for myself? I meekly obeyed them because they were paying the bill. I’m grateful I could go to college and not have to worry about how I was going to pay for things and just focus on my studies without having to get a part-time job. But I also feel that I didn’t exactly get to spread my wings as a young adult. I felt like I was living under my parents’ roof even though I was 100 miles away from them.

So, I can only imagine how things would be if my husband and I were financially dependent on my parents and living with them. I can only imagine how it would be if I tried to stick up for my husband and put him first with my parents reminding us who was paying for everything and who could stop paying for everything at any time. I haven’t actually experienced it, but I have a feeling it would be a nightmare.
 
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