My neice is playing online games with occult themes?

[Steadfast_love]

How about this article???
newswithviews.com/BeritKjos/kjos80.htm

It’s unintentionaly hillarious. Perhaps you are unaware that you have linked an anti-Catholic screed? Catholics have the communion of saints, and sacrements that depend on right form and intention. All that Berit Kjos asserts is that Harry Potter acts Catholic so he must be in league with the devil.

(from the conclusion)

From an occult perspective, he was a relatively “good” wizard, but his life and associations model the dark evil forces arrayed against God from the beginning of time His powerful magic is an extension of his own will – exercised not by faith in God, but by willful projection of an occult power usually channeled through a magical object.

That “will projected through a magic object” is what anti-Catholics call a sacrament with right form and intention. And do I really need to spell out how the slander about the communion of saints and necromancy?

These encounters illustrate necromancy – the forbidden act of communicating with the dead. Can authors who commend what God abhors be followers of Christ?

Personaly, I hope that my kids DO pray to saints and martyrs. And do I even need to remind you that all of the best saints and martyrs died?

 

[Steadfast_love]

Did you even follow the link to the website of the former occult temple master??? He sounds pretty objective to me. He even defines “occult” for you.
crossroad.to/ask-peter/index.htm

If the website of the former occult temple master told you to jump of a bridge would you do it?

 

[brgregmack]

It’s unintentionaly hillarious. Perhaps you are unaware that you have linked an anti-Catholic screed? Catholics have the communion of saints, and sacrements that depend on right form and intention. All that Berit Kjos asserts is that Harry Potter acts Catholic so he must be in league with the devil.

That “will projected through a magic object” is what anti-Catholics call a sacrament with right form and intention. And do I really need to spell out how the slander about the communion of saints and necromancy?

Personaly, I hope that my kids DO pray to saints and martyrs. And do I even need to remind you that all of the best saints and martyrs died?

How??? A Sacrament is by the power of the Holy Spirit, NOT ours. And there’s a HUGE difference between necromancy and the communion of saints. When we pray to the Saints, we ask for they’re intercession. Necromancy seeks to communicate with the dead specifically, often trying to predict the future.

 

[brgregmack]

Continuing to argue with you guys is pointless, fore we are getting nowhere.
Here’s what I suggest you do: pray a Rosary novena asking to know the truth. Then, and only then, will I even consider what you say.

This is my last post on this thread.

Christ’s peace be with you all.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Did you even follow the link to the website of the former occult temple master??? He sounds pretty objective to me. He even defines “occult” for you.
crossroad.to/ask-peter/index.htm

Actually, only one of those definitions comes close to Church teaching:

2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.

I say comes close because the Church here does not define occult as the things found in fantasy. Also, following the definitions of your link, Lord of the Rings is occult because it has characters that possess “both human and non-human traits” (e.g. elves, dwarves, wizards like Gandalf).

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Here’s what I suggest you do: pray a Rosary novena asking to know the truth. Then, and only then, will I even consider what you say.

I’m sorry but the Catholic Church does not say the Rosary is the guide to truth. It does not even make up a huge bulk of the Sacred Deposit of Faith.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to go lest I be late for my Theology class (Church and Sacraments).

(Hopefully I’ll be able to beat the secret boss in that bonus lava dungeon during my long commute down. Oh yeah and I also have to return Eragon to the library soon. sighs)

Continuing to argue with you guys is pointless, fore we are getting nowhere.

This is my last post on this thread.

Christ’s peace be with you all.

Thank you for being a fine example of how much intellectual respect should be given to the religious anti-Fantasy crowd.

 

[adstrinity]

Get her out of it now. Even if it’s not occultish (and I don’t know one way or the other), if it has Harry Potter themes about it, get her out of it.

While I do know and have heard of persons getting involved with the occult because of Harry Potter, I’m saying get her out of it for other reasons.

1. Harry Potter is Protestant in nature.
2. Harry Potter is subtlely seductive and takes time away from God. I can assure you, she knows a whole bunch of trivia about the books and the movies. This is not important; this takes time and energy away from God.
3. Harry Potter CAN lead to worse things, not just wicca and such, but, other fantasy and roll playing things, which, again, are distractive from God.
4. Your niece is at an influential age. She will retain a lot of what she sees now into the rest of her life. Trust me.

Tell her parents, if they don’t do anything about her soul/spiritual well being, start praying for her EVERY DAY. And make it clear that you will not discuss her games or those subjects in a positive manner and you do not want her to talk to you about them. Expand her knowledge, because, again, the Harry Potter world (and, I have not seen these games, so, I don’t know if they really do have a lot based on Harry Potter, as much as they can, anyway, without a copyright) has lots and lots of nuances, subtleties, and trivia, in which one can imerse onesself. Please make sure to it she doesn’t drown.

 

[Steadfast_love]

How??? A Sacrament is by the power of the Holy Spirit, NOT ours. And there’s a HUGE difference between necromancy and the communion of saints. When we pray to the Saints, we ask for they’re intercession. Necromancy seeks to communicate with the dead specifically, often trying to predict the future.

I’m Catholic so I agree with you. But the Berit Kjos’ article you linked condemns our faith as devil worship. It condemns every communication with dead persons, so you and I and the Pope and Harry Potter are all judged and condemned by the the same un-Catholic criteria.

I mean look, carefuly at what you linked. Did the article you link have an imprimur? Is Berit Kjos even a Catholic? Think carefuly about the hundreds and hundreds of warnings against educating children with non-Catholic materials on this very website. Remember your responsibity to bring up your children in the Faith. Think very carefuly before you abdicate that God-given responsibility to an anti-Catholic screed writer and a self-avowed former occultist!

As for me, I will ask for the intersession of St. Hilary of Poiters – the patron saint of miseducated children.

 

[brgregmack]

alright… this really IS my LAST post… and must admit that some earlier sources weren’t the best:blush:
a sober essay on Harry Potter from a Catholic source.
decentfilms.com/articles/magic.html

Christ’s peace

 

[Steadfast_love]

alright… this really IS my LAST post… and must admit that some earlier sources weren’t the best:blush:
a sober essay on Harry Potter from a Catholic source.
decentfilms.com/articles/magic.html

Christ’s peace

No imprimatur but the author, Steven D. Greydanus, knows his Tolkien!

Actualy, I like what he has to say alot. I agree that Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings is a much better work of fiction than Harry Potter. And I’m so very glad that my toddlers are smitten by Shadowfax Lord of all Horses, and not by a flying broom.

Oh, I should mention that the official Lord of the Rings Online game is now free to play. I haven’t played it myself but perhaps following the advice of the article you linked to you might try to steer your niece away from the occult game and towards a nice Tolkien based video game?

www.lotro.com

Edit: Although word is that Turbine the Lord of the Rings Online developer, which is owned by Time Warner, is secretly working on a Harry Potter game. Or at least, it appears that way from job postings.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

alright… this really IS my LAST post… and must admit that some earlier sources weren’t the best:blush:
a sober essay on Harry Potter from a Catholic source.
decentfilms.com/articles/magic.html

Christ’s peace

Okay now this is much better and in fact, so far I have skimmed and found nothing in contrary to what I’ve already stated.

Your others sources though… well, let’s just call it a lesson learned mmkay?

 

[mdrummer5]

also, it must be remembered that it’s not necessarily the presence of magic that makes something to be avoided, but rather how magic is portrayed. HP is to be avoided because it portrays magic as something to be used for good as well as pushing the myth of white and black magic. Narnia and LOTR are fine because magic is portrayed as the evil it really is.

You do know that the “good guys” in those books use magic too right?

Please explain the logic here…

 

[mdrummer5]

Oh, I should mention that the official Lord of the Rings Online game is now free to play. I haven’t played it myself but perhaps following the advice of the article you linked to you might try to steer your niece away from the occult game and towards a nice Tolkien based video game?

www.lotro.com

I love the fact that the champions of LOTR and Narnia want to condemn HP for it’s use of magic and then want to recommend LOTRO without really knowing anything about it.

Fact: as a good guy in LOTRO you do have the ability to cast magic spells, the description for the rune-keeper class…

"Mystical linguists and masters of true names, Rune-keepers can heal in one battle and hurl destructive magic in the next using an innovative attunement system. Unleash the Fury of the Storm and call down lightning upon the enemy! Recite Words of Grace and heal your fellowship. The choice is yours… "

Better tell your kids to steer clear of this one too.

 

[brgregmack]

Okay now this is much better and in fact, so far I have skimmed and found nothing in contrary to what I’ve already stated.

Your others sources though… well, let’s just call it a lesson learned mmkay?

… then you haven’t read the whole thing. Read on, and you just might change your mind on HP…

(Truly, truly, I say to you, this really is my last post. :yup

 

[nickybr38]

You do know that the “good guys” in those books use magic too right?

Please explain the logic here…

I pointed that out too.

Sometimes I wonder if these people have even READ these books they profess are so evil.

 

[brgregmack]

I pointed that out too.

Sometimes I wonder if these people have even READ these books they profess are so evil.

not a prudential post… or well written. In previous posts I’ve displayed my weakness of letting passion on subjects I’m not well versed take over. Read the sober essay I linked to. While I’ve been humbled by it myself, I also feel vindicated about my dislike of Harry Potter. I personally think that this particular essay will bring both sides on this subject closer to the center.

Here’s the link again so you don’t have to scroll back up:
decentfilms.com/articles/magic.html

 

[nickybr38]

not a prudential post… or well written. In previous posts I’ve displayed my weakness of letting passion on subjects I’m not well versed take over. Read the sober essay I linked to. While I’ve been humbled by it myself, I also feel vindicated about my dislike of Harry Potter. I personally think that this particular essay will bring both sides on this subject closer to the center.

Here’s the link again so you don’t have to scroll back up:
decentfilms.com/articles/magic.html

I saw it. I just don’t agree.

 

[brgregmack]

I saw it. I just don’t agree.

Did you read all of it, though?

 

[nickybr38]

Did you read all of it, though?

I stopped halfway through. Just seemed like he was looking for things to pick on to me. You can find something bad in everything if you look hard enough.

 

[brgregmack]

I stopped halfway through. Just seemed like he was looking for things to pick on to me. You can find something bad in everything if you look hard enough.

Read the whole thing. He goes on to say that while he doesn’t endorse, he doesn’t condemn. He outlines and explains the difference between the presentation of fantasy magic in Tolkein and Lewis compared to the fantasy magic of Rowling. Basically, he concludes that whether or not you let your kids read them requires prudence on a case by case basis.