My Opinion: No Piercing At Jesus' Side

[Ben_Masada]

I answered him. Jesus did not die from the stab wound. Jesus was a dead man when he was being stabbed.

How do you know if you were not there? And don’t tell me that John was because the beloved disciple who was there was not John but Mary Magdalene. Of 12 disciples, Jesus would never call one his beloved one if she was not his own wife Mary Magdalene. This is one reason.

The other reason is that as an Orthodox Jew that Jesus was, he would never, as a matter of Jewish decorum, recommend his mother to a male disciple and vice-versa, a male disciple to his mother. I live this life and I know what I am talking about if you forgive my lack of modesty.

I am sorry, but the guy who wrote the fourth gospel had almost zero knowledge of what is to be an observant Jew. The truth of the
matter is that Jesus recommended the daughter-in-law to her mother-in-law and vice-versa, the mother-in-law to her daughter-in-law. Thus yes, it makes much more sense within the context of being Jewish.

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben Masada;4851063:

adrift;4850985:

How would Jesus was not there? Are you saying that the guards were guarding an empty tomb? Do you think the soldiers left Jesus away after the crucifixion because of the speculation that Joseph bribed the soldiers and fool Pilate?? It is too intelligent to be true.

Too intelligent to be true? If it’s Jewish. Therefore, it’s true. I would give my kingdom for a minute to stare at the faces of those Romans after they found out they had been watching an empty tomb that Saturday. I would not wonder if they
didn’t think about killing themselves for having been made fools by a Jewish trick. He, he, he…

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ho ho ho… Ben. That is the proof that those soldiers really saw something awe and wonder. Do you think those Roman soldiers were chickens and afraid of the apostle of the Jesus? Do you think the Roman soldiers all fell to sleep during in their duty? If those Roman soldiers really were not that dicipline, they would not be able to destroy your temple in 70 AD.

I said “If you believe…” No, I don’t think they were afraid of the disciples. None came. They were too cowards to approach. Joseph of Arimathea was aware of this and came when there was no soldies around, Friday evening, and removed Jesus from there.

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

Amazing Ben. For the first time in history Dawn comes just before Sunset. Its a miracle.

Heres the sequence:
Sunset Friday; Dawn Saturday; Morning Saturday; Afternoon Saturday; Evening Saturday; Dawn Sunday; Sunset Saturday.

1 And in the end of the sabbath, when it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalen and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre. 2 And behold there was a great earthquake. For an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and coming, rolled back the stone, and sat upon it.

Oops Thing, what was that again?..

…when it began to dawn towards the first day of the week,…

Dawn Equals Sky Getting Bright As The Sun Rises On A New Day.

Sadly it is the other way around, - are you sure you should be lying to me - as it breaks one of the Ten Commandments.
I have done a little research on the subject for you, for your benefit, and I find that bearing false witness if forbidden in the Ten Commandment given to Moses by God. Now it is not my place to tell you, as a jew, how to live your religion, but I think this is for your own benefit.

From Genesis, indeed the angels could be described, they could also talk, wash, eat, etc, etc.

1 And the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of the city. And seeing them, he rose up and went to meet them: and worshipped prostrate to the ground, 2 And said: I beseech you, my lords, turn in to the house of your servant, and lodge there: wash your feet, and in the morning you shall go on your way. And they said: No, but we will abide in the street. 3 He pressed them very much to turn in unto him: and when they were come into his house, he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread and they ate:

And the Angel said to Mary at the sepulchre:
6 He is not here, for he is risen, as he said. Come, and see the place where the Lord was laid.

Do you know the meaning of the word “Anthropomorphy?” That’s how you relate yourself with the Daity: Anthropomophically. And this is just a long word for idolatry.

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

Are you saying that Zachariah was not a Jew?

Zechariah never wrote a gospel.

Ben:

 

[Bill_Pick]

There is another part to the story that you folks are ignoring.

Why was Jesus crucified? Because some Jewish leaders forced Pilot into it by making it look like a riot was at hand if he was not. Now, is it totally illogical for those same people, since they already had the mob assembled, to make it seem like leaving the bodies on the cross would cause another riot?

Now, let’s say that is true. Pilot would have ordered the men to make sure they were dead. Breathing on a cross is next to impossible the longer you are up there. Jesus was not moving anymore, so they could assume that he was dead. The spear was shoved into him, and the resulting blood and water were separate, proving he was dead.

And, on a more personal note, I am SICK AND TIRED of people on here calling the early Christians liers. You people disgust me with your willingness to degrade the fore-fathers of my faith so you can embrace heresy and follow heathens. Peter, John, Jesus’s mother Mary have all been called LIERS by you people. You have no respect for them at all. Over and over we see that you people HATE those who loved Jesus. That is all I am going to say on the matter.

Very good answer and it is about time Christian like you are tell ing these people the FACTS i think we are all SICK AND TIRED of the bashing.

 

[Thing]

Do you know the meaning of the word “Anthropomorphy?” That’s how you relate yourself with the Daity: Anthropomophically. And this is just a long word for idolatry.

Ben:

You mean the furry cartoon animals; you have finally gone insane and I’m not surprised. And thats not how you spell Deity either.

Or do you mean that God created us in His image and likeness, God relates Himself with/to us, He became flesh and dwelt among us.

 

[Ben_Masada]

You mean the furry cartoon animals; you have finally gone insane and I’m not surprised. And thats not how you spell Deity either.

Or do you mean that God created us in His image and likeness, God relates Himself with/to us, He became flesh and dwelt among us.

Oh! I beg your pardon Professor for mispelling Daity for Deity; it was a lapse of the finger.

We were created in God’s likeness of attributes, not in form. God has no form. God is incorporeal. And what became flesh as Immanuel was the Word of God when it was granted to Israel only and to no other People on earth. Read Psalm 147:19,20. But please, read it in order not to say that I am making up things.

Ben:

 

[Thing]

Oh! I beg your pardon Professor for mispelling Daity for Deity; it was a lapse of the finger.

We were created in God’s likeness of attributes, not in form. God has no form. God is incorporeal. And what became flesh as Immanuel was the Word of God when it was granted to Israel only and to no other People on earth. Read Psalm 147:19,20. But please, read it in order not to say that I am making up things.

Ben:

americancatholictruthsociety.com/sheen/05LineuptheClaimants.mp3

Listen

 

[planten]

You believe that Jesus did not die, so you better answer your own question of the doctor who brought medicine to Jesus?

**I am thankful to some friend who answered my question about the doctor. It was Nicodemus alright.

Now the question remains to be answered: Was Jesus removed from tomb and taken to another place quickly for further safety?**

 

[Valke2]

Do you really believe that Jesus was whipped, scourged, nailed to a cross and THEN scurried to safety???

 

[MHalsey]

Amazing Ben. For the first time in history Dawn comes just before Sunset. Its a miracle.

–snip–

For those who refuse to believe in the Life, Death. and Resurrection of The Lord, and who make stories up out of whole cloth, yes, dawn does come before sunset.

This whole thread is based on the delusional rantings of someone how refuses to believe. Fine, they do not believe what is written in the Bible.

I have a healthy respect for the Jews that post here. But I have no respect for anyone who makes up stories that have absolutely no basis in reality, and then claims we need to remove the “patches of faith” from our eyes.

Coming soon from Ben, the story of how Jesus wasn’t really scourged. That was only thrown in there to validate the scripture from Isaiah:

Isaiah 53 5-8
5 But he was pierced for our offenses, crushed for our sins, Upon him was the chastisement that makes us whole, by his stripes we were healed.
6 We had all gone astray like sheep, each following his own way; But the LORD laid upon him the guilt of us all.
7 Though he was harshly treated, he submitted and opened not his mouth; Like a lamb led to the slaughter or a sheep before the shearers, he was silent and opened not his mouth.
8 Oppressed and condemned, he was taken away, and who would have thought any more of his destiny? When he was cut off from the land of the living, and smitten for the sin of his people,

 

[Ben_Masada]

Do you really believe that Jesus was whipped, scourged, nailed to a cross and THEN scurried to safety???

Yes, I do. It’s perfectly possible.

Ben:

 

[Robert_in_SD]

Especially from Flavius Josephus. Why don’t you go to a good Library and check it out? Then there are many other good authors in Roman History. I have read a few of them. Cicero is a good one. But the best is Josephus for having been very actual.

Thanks I’ll check those out. But for the readers, can you provide some specific discussion from the works of these men? That might provide a more practical method of determining the validity of your claim from these sources.
Ben Masada:

All you have to do is to be a little more malicious in your analises of these things. The writers of the NT and the Fathers of the Church needed to document their Church and dug the Tanach for anything that could serve as a prophecy to fit the Christ of Paul in. Therefore, for the spear-piecing they found Zechariah 12:10 and just inserted it in by creating a fictitious custom, which the Romans never had. Read about “The Revolt of the Roman Slaves.” They crucified thousands for days non-stop. There was not even one mention of spear-piercing. Let’s think a little more with our minds and not with our hearts.

So, if I assign a malicious motive to the authors, it supports your conclusion, but if I support a positive motive, it supports mine? Why, then, did most of those credited with instituting Christianity willingly die before recanting what you say they “manufactured” to support their allegedly false religion?
Ben Masada:

If my theory does not support the conclusion that Jesus did not die on the cross, the NT is more crowded with contradictions than I thought it was. Luke says that Jesus spent 40 days before saying goodbye to his disciples and leave. Forty days was pretty much a fair time to recover, considering VIP treatment under the money power of a very rich man in Israel. Don’t forget that Joseph of Arimathea was taking care of tab.I think you are reading too many facts into the NT that simply are not there. Joseph of A. requested the body, which was stabbed through the heart with a spear to avoid just the scenario you are claiming. And while it is true that Jesus stayed with the Apostles for a period of time before His ascension, it is also clear from the NT that he needed no medical care. He was restored, healthy, and able to walk, fish, cook, and apparently perform the normal tasks of everyday living… not the condition of a man recovering from significant and - by all acounts - horrific scourging, massive blood and tissue loss, and mutilation of the hands and feet.
Ben Masada:

And about being scourged by the Romans prior to crucifixion, Jesus was not the only one. That was a matter-of-course in the Roman agenda, if you read John 19:1.

I wasn’t saying that he was the only one scourged. I’m suggesting that because he was scourged, your theory that he was able to be up and about three days later holds little weight.
Ben Masada:

That’s not true. I accept 20 percent of the NT as historically true and as legitimately coming from the lips of Jesus. I mean, those things in turne with his Faith, which was Judaism.

So, you accept the NT to the extent it does not contradict traditional judaism? How is that not just a tacit rejection of the NT?
Ben Masada:

What I cannot accept is that he would contradict his own Faith.

This is your underlying presumption when you approach the NT. That’s why you come to the conclusion you do. What you should be asking yourself is why you see christianity as a contradiction of your faith?

Peace,
Robert

 

[PaRappa]

The Council of Nicene theory has already been dis-missed long time ago LOL! The first ever Christian miracle is recorded to be as early as 40A.D. and archaeology has now found a peice of the Gospel according to John what dates back to 100A.D. and on top of that the Gospel of Mark dates back to 60A.D. and Christian Mosaic paintings date back to 135A.D. which have the spear, hands, and feet wounds and the writings of the early church fathers date back to 80A.D. - 300A.D… But personally, I don’t care how Jesus was crucified because it dont matter how he died but it does’ matter that he did die if ofcourse your going to take the Christian perspective on these things.

Your brother in Christ; Neeraj.

 

[Valke2]

Yes, I do. It’s perfectly possible.

Ben:

It’s also possible that that almost no one was ever crucified. There’s very little physical evidence for it. In fact, I believe there is only one skeleton that was discovered to have suffered crucifixion. Does that mean that we should believe almost no jews or anyone else was ever crucified by the Romans?

 

[swariffin]

How do you know if you were not there? And don’t tell me that John was because the beloved disciple who was there was not John but Mary Magdalene. Of 12 disciples, Jesus would never call one his beloved one if she was not his own wife Mary Magdalene. This is one reason.

The other reason is that as an Orthodox Jew that Jesus was, he would never, as a matter of Jewish decorum, recommend his mother to a male disciple and vice-versa, a male disciple to his mother. I live this life and I know what I am talking about if you forgive my lack of modesty.

I am sorry, but the guy who wrote the fourth gospel had almost zero knowledge of what is to be an observant Jew. The truth of the
matter is that Jesus recommended the daughter-in-law to her mother-in-law and vice-versa, the mother-in-law to her daughter-in-law. Thus yes, it makes much more sense within the context of being Jewish.

Ben:

That is why Jesus was against the rule of the Jewish tradition at that time. Observing man-made rule and regulations, but sacrificing the love to other human.

 

[swariffin]

It’s also possible that that almost no one was ever crucified. There’s very little physical evidence for it. In fact, I believe there is only one skeleton that was discovered to have suffered crucifixion. Does that mean that we should believe almost no jews or

Are you saying during Jesus time, the death penalty was the electric chair?

 

[swariffin]

swariffin;4856870:

Ben Masada;4851063:

adrift;4850985:

Too intelligent to be true? If it’s Jewish. Therefore, it’s true. I would give my kingdom for a minute to stare at the faces of those Romans after they found out they had been watching an empty tomb that Saturday. I would not wonder if they
didn’t think about killing themselves for having been made fools by a Jewish trick. He, he, he…

Ben:

Then how come the Jewish trick failed to save the temple in 70AD?

 

[swariffin]

I said “If you believe…” No, I don’t think they were afraid of the disciples. None came. They were too cowards to approach. Joseph of Arimathea was aware of this and came when there was no soldies around, Friday evening, and removed Jesus from there.

Ben:

You told me that the soldiers were guarding the tomb, even by quoting Matthew, did you not? Don’t tell the story of bribery that the soldiers agreed to take some bribe money at the risk of their own stake.