My personal experience with once saved always saved

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Indifferently said:
RCs simply have not grasped the severity and deadliness of sin if they think they can get through the gate without stain of “mortal” sin keeping them from God.

Jesus makes it clear in the Sermon on the Mount that even a bad word against your brother merits your being cast into hell-fire.

The doctrine of perseverance (once in grace, always in grace) makes one humble to the fact that he is fallen and never adequate to receive God’s mercy, yet trusting in Christ’s cross, and the power of God’s grace alone for sanctification and eventual glorification with the saints on the last day.

God’s covenant with Moses was one that could be and was severed and broken by the people’s obstinacy and disobedience - but his new covenant (Jer. 31:31-34) is not a conditional covenant on our side, but the one-way promise from God to men that Jesus Christ poured out his blood for the forgiveness of our sins (Matt. 26:28).
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No quite the contrary. Are you kidding?

We trust unconditionally in Christ’s cross. We penitentially ask his forgiveness in every mass. We go to the sacrament of reconciliation to seek forgiveness and he is always faithful to forgive. We align our hearts to his. We choose a narrow path.

We live our lives intimately woven with Christ as disciples.

It is a different matter than saying, “I’m good he forgives me, I will sin, it’s of no consequence though. I will try to be nice…when it suits my earthly endeavors.” Which is the position you hold and advocate.

Every time we sin , we drive the nail further into his hands. I think you best repent of such an action.
 
Yes: until I started my journey home to be Catholic.

As a transplant into the South …everyone is Baptist or Non-Denominational. I never fit in and I could never feel at home. The best way I could describe it was it was the worse feeling in the world to know I was bound to the gates of hell parking my car in their parking lot.

If I hear "God is good, and once saved always saved one more time–have a blessed day and you only get to heaven by being saved NOT anything else " I think I might vomit.
 
Jon_S said:
No quite the contrary. Are you kidding?

We trust unconditionally in Christ’s cross. We penitentially ask his forgiveness in every mass. We go to the sacrament of reconciliation to seek forgiveness and he is always faithful to forgive. We align our hearts to his. We choose a narrow path.

We live our lives intimately woven with Christ as disciples.

It is a different matter than saying, “I’m good he forgives me, I will sin, it’s of no consequence though. I will try to be nice…when it suits my earthly endeavors.” Which is the position you hold and advocate.

Every time we sin , we drive the nail further into his hands. I think you best repent of such an action.
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Sounds like Christ’s cross is a background-part of your salvation of yourself.
 
“Once saved always saved” and the perseverance of the saints are not the same doctrine.

OSAS is most often linked to “sinner’s prayer” and altar call churches which have Arminian theology. Just ask Jesus into your heart and he will be faithful and save you.

Those who believe in perseverance believe that Christ took the sins of the elect to the cross and therefore they will not be punished for their own sins and will therefore be saved and be preserved by God til the end.

Whereas the reprobate will have to pay for their own sins eternally.
 
Indifferently said:
Sounds like Christ’s cross is a background-part of your salvation of yourself.
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Not at all, and saying such a statement shows how little you understand Catholic teaching.

If a person was lost in the middle of the ocean and the coast guard came and through him a life preserver and hoisted him in a helicopter and flew him home and healed his injuries. Would you say the coast guard was a background part of the story because they asked the man to grab the life ring they provided?

How ludicrous
 
Jon_S said:
It is a different matter than saying, “I’m good he forgives me, I will sin, it’s of no consequence though. I will try to be nice…when it suits my earthly endeavors.” Which is the position you hold and advocate.
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I don’t advocate antinomianism. Could you point to where I advocate that? Do you have any acquaintance with Reformed theology?

Antinomianism is dealt with in Romans 6,beginning:

“What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning, so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?” (6:1-2)

After explaining that we are justified by faith apart from works, the apostle then expects the people to ask, What is the need of obedience? But he carefully explains in chapter 6 that God’s people should give up sinning and follow God’s law of obedience because that is what God has set them apart to do - once spiritually dead, they are now alive in Christ to do good works.

But their good works have absolutely no part in their standing before God, nor anything to do with whether they are in a state of grace or not.

(It may be a sign that you are not in fact saved if you continue in unrepentant sin.)
 
Jon_S said:
Not at all, and saying such a statement shows how little you understand Catholic teaching.

If a person was lost in the middle of the ocean and the coast guard came and through him a life preserver and hoisted him in a helicopter and flew him home and healed his injuries. Would you say the coast guard was a background part of the story because they asked the man to grab the life ring they provided?

How ludicrous
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But that’s not it. The fact you had to reach out and grab it is suggesting that you choose whether you are saved or not, and since God hands the life preserver to everyone, they are the determining factor in whether they are saved, rather than God.

In fact, a more accurate analogy is that you are dead at the bottom of the ocean. See Romans chapter 3 - “There is no one who seeks God”. And Ephesians chapter 2 - “dead in trespasses and sins”. We are not on spiritual life support, we are not spiritually drowning,we are spiritually dead, until God makes us alive by his Spirit (if he chooses to do so).
 
It has been in my experience that OSAS people don’t really know how it works, but they’re certain it’s true…

They believe that “Everyone who confesses, etc.” Is eternally secure; however, if they do fall away then they obviously never truly, truly meant it… Even if they did at the time.

I can’t wrap my head around certain Church’s insistence on this doctrine. I don’t know why some think it’s Biblical or beneficial, but in the end it’s similar to Catholic doctrine if you really think about it.

Catholics believe that one can lose one’s salvation, while OSAS people believe one can’t, but if it looks like you did then you were never truly “saved.” Either way the results are the same.
 
Indifferently said:
But that’s not it. The fact you had to reach out and grab it is suggesting that you choose whether you are saved or not, and since God hands the life preserver to everyone, they are the determining factor in whether they are saved, rather than God.

In fact, a more accurate analogy is that you are dead at the bottom of the ocean. See Romans chapter 3 - “There is no one who seeks God”. And Ephesians chapter 2 - “dead in trespasses and sins”. We are not on spiritual life support, we are not spiritually drowning,we are spiritually dead, until God makes us alive by his Spirit (if he chooses to do so).
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I get why you think that but it means there is no free will. Calvin teaches that no one can know if they are saved. You just play the game and hopefully you are one of the ones God saved but who knows. How hopeless and ridiculous.

Yes you must choose to be saved. You must grab hold and hold on. If you ever let go then Jesus is always faithfully holding the life preserver alongside you.

Revelation 3:20

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

Wait? You must choose to open the door and invite him in?
 
Yes, but I’d rather not share details. I wouldn’t say that ‘Once saved always saved’ was really taught outright in my church, but looking back, it was an undercurrent. There was also little to no teaching about sin in my church - just forgiveness, mercy and self-sacrifice. Basically, you just have to be a ‘good person’. As we all know, today that means very little.
 
Jon_S said:
I get why you think that but it means there is no free will. Calvin teaches that no one can know if they are saved. You just play the game and hopefully you are one of the ones God saved but who knows. How hopeless and ridiculous.

Yes you must choose to be saved. You must grab hold and hold on. If you ever let go then Jesus is always faithfully holding the life preserver alongside you.

Revelation 3:20

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

Wait? You must choose to open the door and invite him in?
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Revelation 3:20 is not an evangelistic text. The apostle John is writing to a church at Laodicea which has been ignorant to the commands of Christ. He is not talking to unbelievers. Jesus does not stand at the door and knock on unbelievers’ hearts. The pattern of evangelism in Acts is that the gospel story is told, and those who repent and believe it (the elect) are then formally initiated by baptism, with their children (also belonging to the covenant) also being baptized.

There are many who hear the gospel and are not “cut to the heart” by it, these people are not elect. See also the sower parable - only God knows what type of soil he has predestined us to be, and the elect have assurance through the Word and sacraments.

The reprobate have no assurance of election because they are not elect.
 
Indifferently said:
Revelation 3:20 is not an evangelistic text. The apostle John is writing to a church at Laodicea which has been ignorant to the commands of Christ. He is not talking to unbelievers. Jesus does not stand at the door and knock on unbelievers’ hearts. The pattern of evangelism in Acts is that the gospel story is told, and those who repent and believe it (the elect) are then formally initiated by baptism, with their children (also belonging to the covenant) also being baptized.

There are many who hear the gospel and are not “cut to the heart” by it, these people are not elect. See also the sower parable - only God knows what type of soil he has predestined us to be, and the elect have assurance through the Word and sacraments.

The reprobate have no assurance of election because they are not elect.
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Of course Calvin would say even those who answer the call would not know they are saved. That was partly how he controlled the masses. “Surely if I’m super holy then I must be of the elect”.
 
Why are we having a theological debate on a thread that is about people’s personal experiences? Indifferently - why don’t you start your own thread?
 
dronald said:
It has been in my experience that OSAS people don’t really know how it works, but they’re certain it’s true…

They believe that “Everyone who confesses, etc.” Is eternally secure; however, if they do fall away then they obviously never truly, truly meant it… Even if they did at the time.

I can’t wrap my head around certain Church’s insistence on this doctrine. I don’t know why some think it’s Biblical or beneficial, but in the end it’s similar to Catholic doctrine if you really think about it.

Catholics believe that one can lose one’s salvation, while OSAS people believe one can’t, but if it looks like you did then you were never truly “saved.” Either way the results are the same.
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Yes this is the belief system that sent me spiraling into a deep depression because I couldn’t figure out how to change my actions and I had no one to tell because if you weren’t saved you were not part of the in group. So when I found catholic doctrine I felt comfortable being able to talk to a priest about where I was falling short and he gave me tools such as a suggestion to attend daily mass that helped very quickly. Without the confidential nature of confession and the admittance that one is sinning I think is would be very hard to have spiritual growth
 
Adamski said:
Yes this is the belief system that sent me spiraling into a deep depression because I couldn’t figure out how to change my actions and I had no one to tell because if you weren’t saved you were not part of the in group. So when I found catholic doctrine I felt comfortable being able to talk to a priest about where I was falling short and he gave me tools such as a suggestion to attend daily mass that helped very quickly. Without the confidential nature of confession and the admittance that one is sinning I think is would be very hard to have spiritual growth
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So true! I can attest to this!👍
 
Adamski said:
Yes this is the belief system that sent me spiraling into a deep depression because I couldn’t figure out how to change my actions and I had no one to tell because if you weren’t saved you were not part of the in group. So when I found catholic doctrine I felt comfortable being able to talk to a priest about where I was falling short and he gave me tools such as a suggestion to attend daily mass that helped very quickly. Without the confidential nature of confession and the admittance that one is sinning I think is would be very hard to have spiritual growth
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I can’t touch on your personal experience and how it has affected you. I can say it’s very likely that because God saw how depressed you were He took you somewhere better for yourself. He cares for you, and would want you in a Church that helps you through depression rather than harm you.

However, OSAS people that I’ve dealt with never tell a person that they’re “Not saved.” They just assume that if someone believed in Jesus then rejected Him, then they could never have truly believed in the first place.

The idea that someone is “not saved” because they’re having troubles with sin I feel is absent from OSAS groups. They’re certainly caring for a person struggling with sin in my experience; but again, I can’t speak for yours.
 
I’m not sure that your experience is the same for a lot of people. I have a relative of the OSAS variety who frequents the “non-denominational” denomination, who quite clearly told me she knows all of her immediate family are hell-bound, therefore she must make the most out of the time they have together until they are dead. I asked, incredulously, how she knew they were hell-bound, since that would require knowing their very soul and where they stand with God. She replied, quite non-emotionally, something to the effect of, well they aren’t believing such-and-such and they don’t care to study it further, they are more involved with day-to-day than spiritual concerns, etc. Then quoted some Bible verse justifying that position. It didn’t phase her. I told her clearly, I do not know who’s going to hell, and that it’s quite judgmental for her to state that she knows so; in addition, it would destroy me mentally/emotionally/physically if I truly believed such a thing, and would not be able to function day-to-day.
 
dronald said:
I can’t touch on your personal experience and how it has affected you. I can say it’s very likely that because God saw how depressed you were He took you somewhere better for yourself. He cares for you, and would want you in a Church that helps you through depression rather than harm you.

However, OSAS people that I’ve dealt with never tell a person that they’re “Not saved.” They just assume that if someone believed in Jesus then rejected Him, then they could never have truly believed in the first place.

The idea that someone is “not saved” because they’re having troubles with sin I feel is absent from OSAS groups. They’re certainly caring for a person struggling with sin in my experience; but again, I can’t speak for yours.
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Well I was happier being an agnostic than an Evangelical because I was completely blind to my actions

Also I think there are two groups that are both damaging in osas one being were I was the other being “we’ll I’ve made the altar call” and I can go back to adultery, unethical business, jump to my third marriage and so on. And yes I have seen this with the vast majority of osos people

Also aren’t you playing God to presume auntie so and so is in heaven I find it completely crazy home many evangelicals presume who is in heaven and who isn’t
 
Adamski said:
Well I was happier being an agnostic than an Evangelical because I was completely blind to my actions but know as a catholic I have a lot of peace really the only thing that brings me sadness is when people choose not to be close to jesus

Also I think there are two groups that are both damaging in osas one being were I was the other being “we’ll I’ve made the altar call” and I can go back to adultery, unethical business, jump to my third marriage and so on. And yes I have seen this with the vast majority of osos people

Also aren’t you playing God to presume auntie so and so is in heaven I find it completely crazy home many evangelicals presume who is in heaven and who isn’t
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