My religion is better than your religion

  • Thread starter Thread starter DelScorcho
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DelScorcho said:
I see it as a church is the house of God and one must behave there.

I know that you will not agree with me, so let’s agree to disagree.
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It doesn’t matter so much what I or you think, but what Paul thought the Church was when he wrote that
 
DelScorcho said:
I don’t believe that the Catholic church is the only way to follow Christ and I also do not believe that interpretations of the Bible by Popes and Bishops are any better than any other scholar (men).

Like I said, we can agree to disagree.
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Why don’t you believe the Catholic Church to be the Church founded by Christ?
 
jam070406 said:
I’m not gonna waste time looking it up. It was written by the Magisterium, the teaching authority of the Church. Founded by Christ and His Apostles and guided by the Holy Spirit.
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It was written by men of the Catholic church, probably not that long ago. It is a Catholic church rule… and that is fine.
 
DelScorcho said:
It was written by men of the Catholic church, probably not that long ago. It is a Catholic church rule… and that is fine.
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The bible was also written by men of the Catholic Church.
It’s not a Catholic Church rule, it’s Divine law.
 
jam070406 said:
Why don’t you believe the Catholic Church to be the Church founded by Christ?
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It depends on what you mean by Catholic:

Catholic is an adjective derived from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning “whole” or “complete”.[1] In the context of Christian ecclesiology, it has a rich history and several usages. For Roman Catholics, the term “Catholic Church” refers to the Church, both Western and Eastern, in full communion with the Bishop of Rome. Protestants use it to refer to the entire body of believers in Jesus Christ. Catholicity is one of Four Marks of the Church, the others being unity, sanctity, and apostolicity.[2] according to the Nicene Creed of 381: “I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.”
 
DelScorcho said:
OK, as an example please show me where it is a sin for me to have a vasectomy?
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If you mean, “from the Bible,” we can’t show you that, just as we cannot show you the word “Trinity” in the Bible, nor the phrase “personal Lord and Savior” or indeed, the word “Bible.”

How’s this: If Jesus Christ was/is Who He said He was/is, then every last thing He said is of serious and wonderful and dreadful importance. Among the things He said, we find this: “Blessed art thou, Simon bar Jona, for flesh and blood hath not revealed this unto thee, but my Father which is in Heaven; and I say unto thee, thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build My Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it; and whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven and whatsoever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven.” And also this, “When He, the Spirit of Truth shall come, He shall lead thee into all Truth.”

The Church which Jesus Christ founded upon the Rock of Peter, the Church which holds the charism to bind and to loose, guided by the Holy Spirit Who leads into all truth, says that you cannot have a vasectomy without incurring grave sin (if you knew it ahead of time), just as She articulated the relationship between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and which relationship She named “Trinity” (and which Protestants, in the main, have never questioned).

Let me ask you: by what authority would you claim that a vasectomy is not a sin? See, that’s the rub, “by what authority.” It was a fair question when the Jews asked it of Jesus and it’s a fair question now.
 
jam070406 said:
The bible was also written by men of the Catholic Church.
It’s not a Catholic Church rule, it’s Divine law.
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The Bible was not written exclusively by Catholics.

And I did not know that men could write “Divine Law”
 
DelScorcho said:
It depends on what you mean by Catholic:

Catholic is an adjective derived from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning “whole” or “complete”.[1] In the context of Christian ecclesiology, it has a rich history and several usages. For Roman Catholics, the term “Catholic Church” refers to the Church, both Western and Eastern, in full communion with the Bishop of Rome. Protestants use it to refer to the entire body of believers in Jesus Christ. Catholicity is one of Four Marks of the Church, the others being unity, sanctity, and apostolicity.[2] according to the Nicene Creed of 381: “I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.”
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Problem is, Protestants rebelled against the Church and placed themselves outside it. And led millions upon millions into error.
 
DelScorcho said:
True… and that is not known.
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Well of course it is. St. Paul wrote explicitly about the Church. St. Paul laid on hands and taught students, who laid on hands and taught students, all the way to today. The “succession of the Apostles” its called. St. Augustine took pains to point out its an unbroken line. My point? The Church continues today with all the same teachings. Those who teach other things in the name of the Church, can that be considered the Church? When we have such a preserved history?
 
DelScorcho said:
The Bible was not written exclusively by Catholics.

And I did not know that men could write “Divine Law”
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Sorry, the New Testament was written by Catholics.
God gives us Divine law, through Jesus and His Church.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
If you mean, “from the Bible,” we can’t show you that, just as we cannot show you the word “Trinity” in the Bible, nor the phrase “personal Lord and Savior” or indeed, the word “Bible.”

How’s this: If Jesus Christ was/is Who He said He was/is, then every last thing He said is of serious and wonderful and dreadful importance. Among the things He said, we find this: “Blessed art thou, Simon bar Jona, for flesh and blood hath not revealed this unto thee, but my Father which is in Heaven; and I say unto thee, thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build My Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it; and whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven and whatsoever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven.” And also this, “When He, the Spirit of Truth shall come, He shall lead thee into all Truth.”

The Church which Jesus Christ founded upon the Rock of Peter, the Church which holds the charism to bind and to loose, guided by the Holy Spirit Who leads into all truth, says that you cannot have a vasectomy without incurring grave sin (if you knew it ahead of time), just as She articulated the relationship between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and which relationship She named “Trinity” (and which Protestants, in the main, have never questioned).

Let me ask you: by what authority would you claim that a vasectomy is not a sin? See, that’s the rub, “by what authority.” It was a fair question when the Jews asked it of Jesus and it’s a fair question now.
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If I’m correct, you said that there is nothing prohibiting vasectomies in the Bible… not even close, only a rule made up but the Catholic church?

Let’s cut to the chase, who decided and when was it decided that vasectomies (birth control) is a sin in the Catholic church?
 
DelScorcho said:
The Bible was not written exclusively by Catholics.

And I did not know that men could write “Divine Law”
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On the contrary, the Apostles were the first bishops and our bishops today are their descendents in a direct line imposed in the laying on of hands. What the Catholic Church believes today is what the Church believed in the time of the Didache, written about 100 years after Christ’s birth. Saint Polycarp, Bishop of Smyrna, was a disciple of Saint John the Beloved. The Bible WAS written by Catholics, though not necessarily Catholics of the Latin Rite, as the Church had not delineated into rites at that point.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
On the contrary, the Apostles were the first bishops and our bishops today are their descendents in a direct line imposed in the laying on of hands. What the Catholic Church believes today is what the Church believed in the time of the Didache, written about 100 years after Christ’s birth. Saint Polycarp, Bishop of Smyrna, was a disciple of Saint John the Beloved. The Bible WAS written by Catholics, though not necessarily Catholics of the Latin Rite, as the Church had not delineated into rites at that point.
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Thanks for that explanation… I see bishops today as men, not supernatural.

The truth is, Divine Laws are written by men and really only pertain to Catholics… which is fine. In my religion having a vasectomy is not a sin.
 
DelScorcho said:
If I’m correct, you said that there is nothing prohibiting vasectomies in the Bible… not even close, only a rule made up but the Catholic church?

Let’s cut to the chase, who decided and when was it decided that vasectomies (birth control) is a sin in the Catholic church?
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Understand it like this. We see half-darkly. The Church, because of Christ’s promise “I have much more to tell you, when the Spirit of Truth comes He will lead you into all the truth,” the Church sees life in the fullness of light and truth. It is the Pillar and Ground of the Truth. We may not understand at first why a teaching seems unreasonable or hard because we see half-truths, half darkly.

Marriage is sacred. Man and woman in love hold nothing back from each other including the chance to bring life into the world. Marriage is not for pleasure, but for love, sacrifice and children. The pleasure that comes from sex is an added gift from God. Arch Bishop Fulton Sheen said Man and Woman are not complete in each other until they have a third (a child)
 
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