The Church has included corrupt individuals throughout it’s history. This will not change as long as it is populated by human beings.
That’s interesting… but I wish we could have a conversation without you trying to convert me.
I’m trying to support my position and belief that the Catholic Church of today holds the same beliefs and doctrines as the early Christians adhered to.
I would not equate gravity with the Catholic church. Theology and gravity are apples and oranges.
Fair enough… but I don’t see things that way.I’m trying to support my position and belief that the Catholic Church of today holds the same beliefs and doctrines as the early Christians adhered to.
If historical analysis is moving you toward conversion, it has nothing to do with me.
I’m disputing your claim that all Christian churches are equally true and valid.
I’m disputing your claim that there is no such thing as a true Church.
I believe that Christianity is superior to other religions and that Christianity is most fully expressed in the Catholic Church.
Fair enough?
Of course, it is your option to not believe in gravity. It doesn’t mean you are not subject to it, nor that if you jump off of a building, you won’t fall to your death. Obviously, a lot of people are going to try to prevent you jumping, no matter how much you say you don’t believe in gravity.Fair enough… but I don’t see things that way.
Which is my option.
Not really - it’s simply a matter of observing principles at work, in both cases, and then believing what the experts - people who have made it their life’s work to study these things - have to say about it (or not, as the case may be).
Fair enough.Fair enough… but I don’t see things that way.
Which is my option.
Like I said, theology (the abstract) is not the same as nature (the concrete). The analogy that the Catholic church is the same as gravity and that I am a subject of it is laughable to me, and I reject that concept.
Which is the entire point of this thread.
The same God gave us both sets of laws. I think the rarity of miracles in the cases we can see tells us something about the level of their frequency in the cases that we cannot see.
When I read the Old Testament through the first time, it seemed to me that God was picking people at random, to speak through – that anybody might be a Prophet of God, and that (as a consequence) anybody might falsely claim to be a prophet of God, because, who would ever know? I wondered how God could blame the Kings and the people for not listening to the Prophets - how were they supposed to know that the Prophets were speaking His Word, or discern between false and true Prophets?
And that is great… I truly am glad you honestly believe that.The same God gave us both sets of laws. I think the rarity of miracles in the cases we can see tells us something about the level of their frequency in the cases that we cannot see.
When I read the Old Testament through the first time, it seemed to me that God was picking people at random, to speak through – that anybody might be a Prophet of God, and that (as a consequence) anybody might falsely claim to be a prophet of God, because, who would ever know? I wondered how God could blame the Kings and the people for not listening to the Prophets - how were they supposed to know that the Prophets were speaking His Word, or discern between false and true Prophets?
Then, I read more closely, and I realized that there was actually a formal ceremony that the prophets went through with the King, in public, where they were formally identified and placed in office - which means that the King and the people knew who they were, and had no excuses for not listening to them.
God doesn’t change His ways - He still appoints His spokespersons in a formal manner that everyone can see, rather than (or perhaps in addition to) coming to unknown persons and giving them His word directly into their hearts.
I’ve also noticed that the appointments of Popes are known throughout the whole civilized world at pretty much the moment they happen, whereas the appointment of leaders of other religions happens in obscurity.
I put all of this information together in one place, and I notice kind of a pattern emerging …
That is interesting because **science **also proves that the planet earth is millions and millions of years old and that evolution is occuring.
This is vastly oversimplified. It’s a bit like saying that Stephen Hawking “tells physicists what to think” because he is the the head of the Academy of Physics. In reality, they all do the research together, and then Dr. Hawking evaluates the results and presents the findings to the whole world.
We actually don’t. We just notice that those who don’t believe still tend to suffer the same consequences for their actions as those who do - for example, not believing that premarital sex leads to pregnancy and forced marriage didn’t prevent one of my nephews from experiencing these consequences.
Science hypothesizes this (since apart from time travel, there is no way to prove such a thing) and the Church actually doesn’t comment on it one way or the other.
Interesting example… I also do not think there is anything wrong with premaritial sex. Actually my wife and I lived together for four years before we were married (in a Catholic church).We actually don’t. We just notice that those who don’t believe still tend to suffer the same consequences for their actions as those who do - for example, not believing that premarital sex leads to pregnancy and forced marriage didn’t prevent one of my nephews from experiencing these consequences.
It’s true that sometimes people get lucky - but he didn’t, and this is in spite of the fact that he isn’t a Christian, and doesn’t believe there is anything the matter with pre-marital sex. Based on Catholic principles, it wasn’t very hard to predict his subsequent divorce, either, but, being an unbeliever, he also pshawed at the idea that he would ever get a divorce, too.
I sometimes think that if I were to say that it is a Catholic doctrine that pointy things hurt, he’d probably prick himself with a needle and be all surprised at the blood coming out.
Does the church ever “hypothesize”???