My sister is having an abortion

[CaliLobo]

They do under the 10 Commandments.

Have you ever heard of Thou Shalt not Kill?

Here’s a few others:

"Did not He who made me in the womb make him, And the same one fashion us in the womb? (Job 31:15)

Yet Thou art He who didst bring me forth from the womb; Thou didst make me trust when upon my mother’s breasts. Upon Thee I was cast from birth; Thou hast been my God from my mother’s womb. (Psalm 22:9-10)

For Thou didst form my inward parts; Thou didst weave me in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to Thee, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Thy works, And my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from Thee, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth. Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Thy book they were all written, The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them. (Psalm 139:13-16)

Thus says the LORD who made you And formed you from the womb, who will help you, `Do not fear, O Jacob My servant; And you Jeshurun whom I have chosen. (Isaiah 44:2)

Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone, (Isaiah 44:24)
…
1 Corinthians 6:19-20
Don’t you know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and who was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourselves but to God; 20he bought you for a price. So use your bodies for God’s glory.

Exactly! My point is proven. God might be our God from the time we were in the womb. He may know us from the time we were in the womb. But these verses do not forbid abortion per se.

Furthermore, the Bible says that you shall not “murder”, not “kill”…

It’s a common tactic of pro-choicers to blame these pictures on pro-lifers. We’re not the ones who caused these “grotesque” pictures my friend. That would be the handiwork of your side. We’re just informing women. It’s your side that is attempting to hide the truth of the horrors and brutality of abortion. Apparently you hate that something that you admit is “grotesque” is allowed to be shown women. What’s the matter Cali Lobo, surely you would want a woman to make an INFORMED choice? What better way then by showing her the truth? You are pro-CHOICE, am I correct? You mention that it makes a jury vote “the wrong way for the wrong reasons”. I can understand why your side likes to keep your pictures hidden. You’re afraid of people growing a conscience.

No the grotesque pictures distract from the main issue, which is, “What is best for women?”

Many surgeries are grotesque. Many people refuse to be medical doctors because of the blood and the gore. It doesn’t take away the necessity of the medical procedure, however.

Can you concede that there are times when women honestly feel that an abortion is a regrettable, but best choice?

 

[Evania]

Exactly! My point is proven. God might be our God from the time we were in the womb. He may know us from the time we were in the womb. But these verses do not forbid abortion per se.

Furthermore, the Bible says that you shall not “murder”, not “kill”…

No the grotesque pictures distract from the main issue, which is, “What is best for women?”

Many surgeries are grotesque. Many people refuse to be medical doctors because of the blood and the gore. It doesn’t take away the necessity of the medical procedure, however.

Can you concede that there are times when women honestly feel that an abortion is a regrettable, but best choice?

I will concede nothing.

God said Thou Shalt not Kill. He didn’t say, “Except in the case of pregnancy.” Your argument of comparison isn’t applicable to this discussion because the abortion pics show the actual photographic evidence of murder, not of a gruesome surgery . I think women deserve the TRUTH, not a lie, a cover up or a half truth. Letting a person kill your child is not what’s “best” for women. I think it’s sad that you think so little of women that you think they should have the right to kill their own offspring. I think women have a higher calling.

 

[Genevieve_II]

No the grotesque pictures distract from the main issue, which is, “What is best for women?”

Many surgeries are grotesque. Many people refuse to be medical doctors because of the blood and the gore. It doesn’t take away the necessity of the medical procedure, however.

That’s the problem - our society is so geared to answering the question of, “what’s best for me”, that we forget that we’re called to love and serve one another. This includes the precious life that was created in the womb. How can one justify destroying an innocent life in order to make her life more comfortable? Before we knew exactly what abortion entailed, before ultrasound and videos, before evidence of the fetus being able to feel pain, I can see that women may have just not been aware. That’s not reality today. Also, if you go to silentnomoreawareness.org/, you can see testimonies of women who thought they knew what was best for them and then, lived to regret it.

I’m not sure that you can prove medical “necessity” for elective abortions.

I realize that I’ve gone off track here and I apologize to Hicup for making this an abortion debate rather than giving him the support he needs. Hicup, I hope that things are getting better. You and your sister are still in my thoughts and prayers! Blessings to all!

 

[CaliLobo]

I will concede nothing.

God said Thou Shalt not Kill. He didn’t say, “Except in the case of pregnancy.” Your argument of comparison isn’t applicable to this discussion because the abortion pics show the actual photographic evidence of murder, not of a gruesome surgery . I think women deserve the TRUTH, not a lie, a cover up or a half truth. Letting a person kill your child is not what’s “best” for women. I think it’s sad that you think so little of women that you think they should have the right to kill their own offspring. I think women have a higher calling.

Your interpretation of the Bible is much too mechanical, and it is from the old King James version. If it were true that the Bible says “You shall not kill,” then the Bible contradicts itself because God has killed people throughout history. See this link: carm.org/questions/you-shall-not-kill-yet-god-kills

First of all, there is no contradiction. “Thou shalt not kill” is from the old King James Bible. Modern translations (ESV, NASB, NCV, NIV, NKJV, NLT, NRSV) have it as “You shall not murder.” The word in the Hebrew for “kill” here in Exodus 20:13 is תִּרְצָח (ratsach). It is translated into the English many different ways, depending on the context: “slayer 16, murderer 14, kill 5, murder 3, slain 3, manslayer 2, killing 1, slayer + 310 1, slayeth 1, death 1.” 1

Murder is the unlawful taking of life. Killing is the lawful taking of life. God has said, “You shall not murder,” not “You shall not kill.” After all, God says killing in self defense is justifiable. Exodus 22:2, “If the thief is caught while breaking in, and is struck so that he dies, there will be no bloodguiltiness on his account.” If mere killing of any kind was the issue, then why would God saying killing in self defense is permissible? He wouldn’t. This is another reason that modern translations say, “You shall not murder.”

Second of all, abortion is a surgical medical procedure that is done to benefit the woman’s health. Please concede that pregnancy is very burdensome to a woman’s physical and emotional health, and that therefore abortion must remain an option albeit a tragic one.

Please also concede that abortion, if done for the health of the mother, is an act of self-defense, a justified killing.

Pro-choicers are not hiding the truth. It is the Catholic Church that is shaming people into thinking that such necessary options are sins, when there is no Biblical basis for believing so.

I think it’s sad that you think so little of women that they must suffer the physical, emotional, and financial consequences of unwanted pregnancy and child-rearing, and that you even support legislative bans that force women into such a fate. I think women have higher callings (how about careers?) than to be saddled with unwanted babies.

 

[SpidersfromMars]

Your interpretation of the Bible is much too mechanical, and it is from the old King James version. If it were true that the Bible says “You shall not kill,” then the Bible contradicts itself because God has killed people throughout history. See this link: carm.org/questions/you-shall-not-kill-yet-god-kills

God’s allowed to take back the lives He created as He sees fit. We are not, which is why killing is a grave sin in our case. After all, you can assume that God has some sort of reasoning behind when He ends a life; man, on the other hand, just murders blindly.

 

[Evania]

Your interpretation of the Bible is much too mechanical, and it is from the old King James version. If it were true that the Bible says “You shall not kill,” then the Bible contradicts itself because God has killed people throughout history. See this link: carm.org/questions/you-shall-not-kill-yet-god-kills

First of all, there is no contradiction. “Thou shalt not kill” is from the old King James Bible. Modern translations (ESV, NASB, NCV, NIV, NKJV, NLT, NRSV) have it as “You shall not murder.” The word in the Hebrew for “kill” here in Exodus 20:13 is תִּרְצָח (ratsach). It is translated into the English many different ways, depending on the context: “slayer 16, murderer 14, kill 5, murder 3, slain 3, manslayer 2, killing 1, slayer + 310 1, slayeth 1, death 1.” 1

Murder is the unlawful taking of life. Killing is the lawful taking of life. God has said, “You shall not murder,” not “You shall not kill.” After all, God says killing in self defense is justifiable. Exodus 22:2, “If the thief is caught while breaking in, and is struck so that he dies, there will be no bloodguiltiness on his account.” If mere killing of any kind was the issue, then why would God saying killing in self defense is permissible? He wouldn’t. This is another reason that modern translations say, “You shall not murder.”

Second of all, abortion is a surgical medical procedure that is done to benefit the woman’s health. Please concede that pregnancy is very burdensome to a woman’s physical and emotional health, and that therefore abortion must remain an option albeit a tragic one.

Please also concede that abortion, if done for the health of the mother, is an act of self-defense, a justified killing.

Pro-choicers are not hiding the truth. It is the Catholic Church that is shaming people into thinking that such necessary options are sins, when there is no Biblical basis for believing so.

I think it’s sad that you think so little of women that they must suffer the physical, emotional, and financial consequences of unwanted pregnancy and child-rearing, and that you even support legislative bans that force women into such a fate. I think women have higher callings (how about careers?) than to be saddled with unwanted babies.

God is the Giver of life. Only He has the right to take a life. Only a person who feels that they should be on par with God would cite Scripture verses of God taking life as justification to their right to murder. What other powers of God do you think we should have?
It is NEVER just or moral to take the life of another human being. Period. It isn’t that hard to understand. You STILL have not shown me the Bible verse(s) to counteract the numerous Bible verses that I provided where Scripture clearly states the sacredness of life within the womb. Could it be that you couldn’t find any? If that’s the case, than you have failed to defend your position on a Biblical basis.

Abortion is not a “surgical medical procedure” done to help women. A surgical medical procedure is done to correct an internal issue in which an organ or body part is not working in the way it was designed to. Therefore, a doctor is in place to promote healing. In addition a doctor takes an oath to not purposefully cause harm or death. An abortion practitioner’s aim is not to promote healing. His aim is to kill. His aim is not to fix something that is not working correctly. Him aim is to thwart the way in which it is designed.

I have provided you with the Biblical basis as to why abortion is a sin. You are blind, so therefore you can’t see. Your heart is hardened against the smallest of your fellow man, so therefore no evidence, including the extreme pain these little one’s suffer, nor the grotesque pictures of their murder will suffice. You want what you want, despite the pain of others. The golden calf you worship is abortion not God.

There are some women who justify abortion by proclaiming, “This is my body.”, and before Jesus died, He instituted the Eucharist and said, “This is my Body…Given up for You.”

He also stated: “Whatever you do to one of the least of my brothers and sisters, you do unto Me.”