My Sister is Mormon....

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The brazen serpent was a symbol for Jesus. Why don’ t we use a brazen serpent for the standard?
Reply With Quote>>>mfbukowski
Actually, is a lamb not a beast?

Could I say, I worship the lamb?

Could I say, I looked at the serpent image and lived?

It would be besides people to thing that a lamb is a beast, and Jesus as a fiery serpent.

For the then Jews and all the rest who converted to Jesus were considered worshipers of the beast?

How is it that we are so much in the dark about these things?

Peace>>>AJ
 
Private areas are never touched. If what you are saying is true, we would have a worse sex abuse scandal than you do. We don’t.
Think about it, after 150 years of doing the same thing, the Mormon church took this part out and everyone now keeps their clothes on.

Why is that?

Let me help you out, since after “thousands” of times of performing this ceremony, you obviously lost the sense that it is a freaking creepy thing to do and it is not NORMAL.

Not to mention the fact that the internet had arrived and the Godmakers was released, and your prospective converts had resources to actually find out what you did in your ceremony, at which point, most people would ask what-the-hell? And please don’t come back.
 
… you obviously lost the sense that it is a freaking creepy thing to do and it is not NORMAL.

Not to mention the fact that the internet had arrived and the Godmakers was released, and your prospective converts had resources to actually find out what you did in your ceremony, at which point, most people would ask what-the-hell? And please don’t come back.
You’re a friendly sort, aren’t you?
The Coptic Orthodox annoints the body in 36 places as part of their Confirmation Rites. Apparantly, Catholicism has somewhat abbreviated the annointing. What follows is only a portion of the whole ceremony
The fourth group of anointments are on the other six joints:
The left shoulder joint
The left underarm
The left elbow joint
The left elbow joint
The left wrist joint
The back of the left wrist
Whilst anointing, the priest prays, “A holy anointment of our Lord Jesus Christ, an imperishable seal, Amen."
Anointing the hands is important, as they are instruments of work and contain the sense of touch. We should keep our hands pure from all things that may defile; from touching things that are impure, from partaking in ungodly deeds, from taking part in murder, stealing, and so on.
The fifth group of anointments are on the six joints of the leg:
The priest wets his thumb with the Myron and anoints,
The right hip joint
The right ureter (inside of the hip joint)
The right knee joint
The inner knee joint
The right ankle joint
Above the right ankle joint
The priest anoints them saying, “Perfection of the grace of the Holy Spirit, Amen."
These are sensitive parts of the body, for near the inner hips lies the reproductive organs, and the church anoints this area so that the child may lead of life of purity. The sexual organs are called the holy of Holies of the body, and so keeping them pure is required. Through the anointing of the Myron, these organs are being protected from sexual immorality, which greatly angers God.
God destroyed the old world because of their profanity, through wiping them out by the flood. Likewise, He burnt the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, and judged them to become an example of the fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries, “Those who died in the plague were twenty four thousand” (Numbers 25:9). For this reason, St. Paul our teacher advises every youth saying, “Keep yourself pure” (1 Timothy 5:22), for without holiness no one can see the Lord.
The sixth group of anointments are on the other six joints:
The priest wets his thumb with the Myron and anoints,
The left hip joint
The left ureter (inside of the hip joint)
The left knee joint
The inner knee joint
The left ankle joint
Above the left ankle joint
The priest anoints them saying, “I anoint you (…name) by a holy anointment. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit Amen.”
Anointing the feet is to protect them from walking in the way of sin, and from going to corrupt places. Avoiding the way of sin will enable us to live a virtuous life, and finally gain eternal life.
After finishing the anointments, the priest places his hand on the child’s head, saying, “May you be blessed by the blessings of the heavenly, and the blessings of the angels. May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you in His name.”
We notice that the priest anoints the child’s right arm, then the left, and the right leg before the left. He gives priority to the right side because it is the center of power in the human body, for example, most work is done by the right hand. Also, when he enters the altar, he must enter with his right foot first.
Blessing of the Heavenly: signifies the blessings of all the heavenly hosts, whether they be saints or angels.
Blessing of the Angels: signifies their care, watchfulness, assistance and intercession for the baptized person, and how they accompany us and keep us from all evil. Here we are assured of the idea of a guardian angel. As the ruler of devils appoints a demon for every born child in order to delude and seduce them, so too does the Lord appoint every person after Baptism and anointment by the Myron, an angel to watch, accompany, care and keep them. The existence of guardian angels are clearly mentioned in the Lord’s words (Matthew 18:10 and Acts 12:15).
Blessing of the Lord Jesus Christ: signifies His gifts and providence for each believer to live with God.
In His Name: implies that the believer is blessed by the name of the Lord Jesus through which, “There is no name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12).
The Baptized person is now a Christian, having been called by the glorified name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
The 36 anointments are on all the joints and senses of the human body, and the anointment protects them against Satanic warfare, so that the devil does not abide in this person by any means. A Christian who is possessed by a demon, is said to be ‘Myron deficient, which means that he was not anointed by the Myron as required, and so the devil was able to penetrate into his body and dwell there.
The child is anointed by the Myron only once in life, so we always ask the priests to take care in administering the Myron after Baptism, lest neglect may bring harm to the child. The priest anoints the new white garments of the child with three signs of the cross, then dresses the baby with the undergarment first saying, “The garment of eternal life to enable them to enter to the Kingdom of heaven.”
copticchurch.net/topics/thecopticchurch/sacraments/2_confirmation.html
 
You’re a friendly sort, aren’t you?
Not very tolerant of deceptive dialog. We’re open. You can read all about it. Maybe you should have done this, that or the other thing and someone would answer your question. Deceptive Mormon **** that I have no tolerance for.

Your deceptions were brought out, and so you removed them entirely.
The Coptic Orthodox annoints the body in 36 places as part of their Confirmation Rites.
First, the Coptic Orthodox practice infant baptism, so in the main, we’re talking about babies here. Second, adult converts are fully clothed.
Apparantly, Catholicism has somewhat abbreviated the annointing. What follows is only a portion of the whole ceremony
All catholics are anointed at confirmation. It is up to the priest where the anointing is placed. Mine was on my forehead. I was fully clothed, at all times. Some priests add other points, of senses. Did you forget your confirmation anointing or what? Was it alone in a room mostly naked, or in front of an entire community who celebrated with you?

Also, notice, you can read this anointing rite in its entirety, at a Coptic Orthodox website. If you were thinking about becoming a Coptic Orthodox, and you wondered what was going to happen at your confirmation, no need to wonder. There you go. Nothing kept from you.

It is NOT the anointing itself I am talking about. I am talking about HOW it was done, and that HOW it was done was kept secret from the person until it was done.

And apparently your temple anointing is now “abbreviated”. What does that mean bukowski? Are the 36 points required?
 
Also bukowski, perhaps you don’t remember the origins of the freemasons, where, the original mormon anointing was copied from, word for word, point for point, exactly.

They were originally a Catholic order, who distorted the teachings of the Church.
 
You’re a friendly sort, aren’t you?
The Coptic Orthodox annoints the body in 36 places as part of their Confirmation Rites. Apparantly, Catholicism has somewhat abbreviated the annointing. What follows is only a portion of the whole ceremony

copticchurch.net/topics/thecopticchurch/sacraments/2_confirmation.html
Alls I needs is Jesus, and He via His Holy Spirit is alls mys every need.

Apart from that, is any body’s guess as to what ritual one wants to practice, if that’s what turns you on to God.

Peace>>>AJ
 
Also bukowski, perhaps you don’t remember the origins of the freemasons, where, the original mormon anointing was copied from, word for word, point for point, exactly.

They were originally a Catholic order, who distorted the teachings of the Church.
Ok, you are claiming that the LDS ceremony is a word for word copy of a Masonic ceremony, which is a copy of a Catholic one.

In which case, if it’s creepy when WE do it, why isn’t it creepy when YOU do?

I didn’t find it to be ‘creepy’ at all. It was a deeply spiritual experience.

Please think about this: to someone who does not share YOUR faith, you might get the following opinion: "I would, quite frankly, be more ‘creeped out’ by some strange man touching his wet thumb to all those parts of my baby’s body, if you want to know the truth. "

But wait… You mean, there was nothing sexual or creepy about this deeply meaningful and spiritual communion with God, blessing an infant?

Think about it, please?
 
Ok, you are claiming that the LDS ceremony is a word for word copy of a Masonic ceremony, which is a copy of a Catholic one.
It is not a claim, it is a fact. If you dared to read what your church is telling you not to read, you would see it is so.
In which case, if it’s creepy when WE do it, why isn’t it creepy when YOU do?
We’re not alone in a room with one person naked but a poncho while someone mutters a masonic ritual and touches us all over our bodies.
I didn’t find it to be ‘creepy’ at all. It was a deeply spiritual experience.
Well, it does take all kinds to make the world go round, doesn’t it.
Please think about this: to someone who does not share YOUR faith, you might get the following opinion: "I would, quite frankly, be more ‘creeped out’ by some strange man touching his wet thumb to all those parts of my baby’s body, if you want to know the truth. "
But wait… You mean, there was nothing sexual or creepy about this deeply meaningful and spiritual communion with God, blessing an infant?
Think about it, please?
I already know what mormons think about infant baptism. I imagine anointing a CLOTHED child in front of a community of believers scares you to death.

And, btw, I am not Coptic Orthodox, I am Roman Catholic.
 
It is not a claim, it is a fact. If you dared to read what your church is telling you not to read, you would see it is so.

We’re not alone in a room with one person naked but a poncho while someone mutters a masonic ritual and touches us all over our bodies.

Well, it does take all kinds to make the world go round, doesn’t it.

I already know what mormons think about infant baptism. I imagine anointing a CLOTHED child in front of a community of believers scares you to death.

And, btw, I am not Coptic Orthodox, I am Roman Catholic.
Well, if you honestly believe that such a thing would scare me, you don’t know what we think about infant baptism.

What we think is a: that infants don’t need it, and this is a good thing because b: it doesn’t work anyway.

If that’s what we believe about it, that it is neither efficacious nor required, why on earth would it be scary?

As well, I wasn’t referring to ordinances performed by Coptic Orthodox. I was responding to you. You were the one claiming that our Temple ceremonies were copied from Masonic rites that were copied from your own.
 
It is not a claim, it is a fact. If you dared to read what your church is telling you not to read, you would see it is so.

QUOTE]

Come on Rebecca…you have been here long enough to know that Mormons have addressed this claim very adequately. 🙂
 
The reality is that in its original form the Mormon temple endowment copied many of the elements of the Masonic rite. As the years have gone by the Mormons have continually changed their temple ceremony and many of the Masonic elements have been removed or watered down. When I first went to the temple all kinds of enactments of punishments were included which were very Masonic. Those have been removed. The penalties as found in the temple endowment I received were much watered down from the original penalties which were much more graphic. The constant changing of the Mormon temple ceremony calls into question in my mind its claim to be revealed from heaven. In fact the temple ceremony changes in 1990 were pivotal in my questioning of the entire Mormon enterprise though my final straw was discovering the legion of problems associated with the Book of Mormon.
 
Did you read the post? Even in the part you quoted it says
The entire issue people are debating now is that anyone can attend Mass (I am not talking participation in all Rites) but the same cannot be said for attending services in the Temple (not talking participation, just attendance). PERIOD.
 
and I have always wondered why they do not have any crosses in their churches. Does anyone know why this is?
Hi

I think the JWs also don’t have the Crosses in their church/kingdom halls. In my opinion the worship places where Jesus prayed did not have Crosses there alos. Isn’t it? Why is it so essential to have crosses in the churches?

Thanks
 
What do you mean by ‘work?’

Mormons don’t require baptism?
By “work,” I mean that we don’t believe that infant baptism does anything for the infant. We believe that infants are born innocent of any taint of sin. They don’t need baptism.

Once we grow up and learn right from wrong? Oh, yeah, then we need it, and need it very badly. So we hold off on the baptisms until the kid is old enough to make decisions and know right from wrong.

I’m not certain of all the parameters of course, but isn’t that one of the reasons that you confirm children at about the same age we baptize 'em? Because it’s a good idea to do this when the child is old enough to know what’s going on?
 
The entire issue people are debating now is that anyone can attend Mass (I am not talking participation in all Rites) but the same cannot be said for attending services in the Temple (not talking participation, just attendance). PERIOD.
No, I don’t think so. The principle is the same thing whether we are talking about participating in the Eucharist and making confession to a priest, or going into a Temple and participating there.

There are some things that are reserved for members of a belief system, that others are asked–even required–to stay out of. Whether it is a small room in a confessional or a large building–what does the size of it matter?

As well, we have established that, just as the ‘script’ of the confessional is available, so is the Temple script. Ah, but I hear you say–the Temple script is available only because non-or ex Mormons were brave enough to get past the Mormons and sneak it out, so that the public could be educated!

Except of course that it was the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that placed it in the Congressional Record.

We have established that, while the church WILL sue for copyright infringement for a policy manual, it has not sued anybody for their use and abuse of the Temple ceremony.

We have established that, even though a penitent may spread the contents and words of what goes on in the confessional, the priest involved never can.

OK. the ceremony script is out there, placed there by underhanded antis and by the church itself. If you don’t feel bound by any promises you have made, go look. Have fun.

Just don’t criticize me because I choose to keep my promises. "K?
 
The President of the Mormon church is stating his view–however, in my Catholic Church, we have a crucifix with the “Risen Christ” on it…so I really don’t buy his answer.
My daugther in law is Mormon, although I do not agree with the teaching I respect her religion and she is a wonderful, beautiful person and an exceptional parent!!
 
I am new to this conversation and I apologize if I am hijacking this thread, but I have a questions about LDS that I can’t seem to find an adequate answer to. Also, please receive my question in charity as this debate seems to have sunk a little.

Also, for disclosure, I am Catholic.

What does the LDS church teach about why there is anything at all. What is the origin of existence?

As far as I can find out, LDS’s worship God, who was once a man in another world? Again, please correct me if I am wrong.

And before God was God of our world, when he was a man in another world, in a previous world, he was a holy man who worshipped the God of that world and his growing in holiness made him God of our world? Again, please correct me if I am wrong.

Did the God of our world create our world or was it already created and he just became God of it?

Our God used to worship another previously existing God and that previously existing God used to worship another even older God, but how did it all start?
 
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