It is logic like this that will keep unity from happening.I suggest you consider siding with the pope. As someone said, “I would rather be wrong with the pope than right with anyone else.”
you cant never go wrong when standing wiht the CC.It is logic like this that will keep unity from happening.
If someone is wrong someone is wrong period. Why would anyone want to be on the wrong side of an issue just because that is the side that the Bishop of Rome is on?
I want to be one the side of Truth, even if I stand alone.
with being said. i will added to it that the history of Israel the people of God is not much better than the history of the Church and yet we are not called to abandon or condemn Israel for what they did. because they are the chosen despite their sinfulll ways towards the Lord. the Lord keeps His promise to Israel just like He keeps His promise to the Church He made the Covenant with.My friend JTBT. Put aside your doubts and mistrust stemming from deeds done by PEOPLE within the Catholic Church. People are corrupt, will always be corrupt, will always cause problems, and have since the Catholic Church began. Then, come to understand that the Catholic Church is an entity onto itself. It is holy, as it was formed by Christ. It cannot err. It’s mission is pure, and it has accomplished this mission spectacularly over the centuries - for 2000 years - despite the myriad imperfections of the people who populate it, and despite the constant attacks from within and without. Search your heart and seek the truth, doing so without the stain of your understandable disdain for past atrocities committed by people in the name of the Catholic Church, and focus on the goodness of the Church as the entity which was founded and formed by Christ, which existed at the time of the Apostles. Christ promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against the Catholic Church, and they have not. They cannot. One cannot name another institution populated by mere humans that has existed for this amount of time. Not only existed, but thrived in the face of relentless attacks. Seek - without prejudice - and ye shall find the truth, goodness, and holiness of the Catholic Church.
God bless!
I find it interesting that you quote John Chrysostomos… isn’t he a doctor of the Eastern Orthodox Church, which is an institution that has preserved Christ’s Church withOUT adding or taking away from it.with being said. i will added to it that the history of Israel the people of God is not much better than the history of the Church and yet we are not called to abandon or condemn Israel for what they did. because they are the chosen despite their sinfulll ways towards the Lord. the Lord keeps His promise to Israel just like He keeps His promise to the Church He made the Covenant with.
"Lord, our God, whose power is beyond compare, and glory is beyond understanding; whose mercy is boundless, and love for us is ineffable; look upon us and upon this holy house in Your compassion. Grant to us and to those who pray with us Your abundant mercy." St John Chrysostomos
St. John Chrysostom is a Doctor of the Church a.k.a. the Catholic Church.I find it interesting that you quote John Chrysostomos… isn’t he a doctor of the Eastern Orthodox Church, which is an institution that has preserved Christ’s Church with adding or taking away from it.
but back to what I said, saying that you would rather stand with the Pope that be right is nonsense, you are equating a man (the pope) to the Church and that is just not right.
he is a Doctor of the Greek Church, … that would be Greek OrthodoxSt. John Chrysostom is a Doctor of the Church a.k.a. the Catholic Church.
Chrysostom was made a Doctor of the Church by Pope St. Pius Vhe is a Doctor of the Greek Church, … that would be Greek Orthodox
he was considered a Father of the Church long before that in the Orthodox ChurchChrysostom was made a Doctor of the Church by Pope St. Pius V
in 1568.
He was considered a Father of the Church long before the Orthodox split.he was considered a Father of the Church long before that in the Orthodox Church
or before Rome split depending on which side you take
And right about what?I find it interesting that you quote John Chrysostomos… isn’t he a doctor of the Eastern Orthodox Church, which is an institution that has preserved Christ’s Church withOUT adding or taking away from it.
but back to what I said, saying that you would rather stand with the Pope than be right is nonsense, you are equating a man (the pope) to the Church and that is just not right.
He was considered a Father in the Catholic Church long before being made a Doctor of the Church. You don’t seem to understand the term.he was considered a Father of the Church long before that in the Orthodox Church
Christ is the head of the Church, and the Authority, so no I am not saying that you should put yourself above Christ.And right about what?
are you saying that i should put myself above the authority instituted by Christ?
i hope you are not saying that?
"Lord, our God, whose power is beyond compare, and glory is beyond understanding; whose mercy is boundless, and love for us is ineffable; look upon us and upon this holy house in Your compassion. Grant to us and to those who pray with us Your abundant mercy."
I will give you that; I should have used the word Father from the start, but my point still stands. He is one of the main Fathers in the Orthodox, they still say his litugy on Sunday.He was considered a Father in the Catholic Church long before being made a Doctor of the Church. You don’t seem to understand the term.
You’ll need to provide your evidence for precisely when the Orthodox made him a doctor of their Church if you’d like to belabor the point. Perhaps a Patriarch of Constantinople so decreed?
So. for what you said here, i should not regard the apostles authority either, right? because the apostles are not Christ. according to your phylosophy not even the apostles we should believe. correct? let me remind you that the apostles are also the Fathers of the Church. fathers of Catholics.Christ is the head of the Church, and the Authority, so no I am not saying that you should put yourself above Christ.
So to your understanding even if the Roman Catholic Church says something that is goes against the historic teaching of the Apostles the Roman Church is to be trusted, and we should all just shut our eyes and follow like blind sheep, right?So. for what you said here, i should not regard the apostles authority either, right? because the apostles are not Christ. according to your phylosophy not even the apostles we should believe. correct? let me remind you that the apostles are also the Fathers of the Church. fathers of Catholics.
do you accept the Epistles of the Apostles as authoritative or not?
"Lord, our God, whose power is beyond compare, and glory is beyond understanding; whose mercy is boundless, and love for us is ineffable; look upon us and upon this holy house in Your compassion. Grant to us and to those who pray with us Your abundant mercy."
so do you accept the teachings of the apostles as authoritative? why do you think we should trust the apostles?So to your understanding even if the Roman Catholic Church says something that is goes against the historic teaching of the Apostles the Roman Church is to be trusted, and we should all just shut our eyes and follow like blind sheep, right?
because they carry Apostolic authority, that is why the Bible carries so much authority, it is the preserved form of apostolic teaching.so do you accept the teachings of the apostles as authoritative? why do you think we should trust the apostles?
what Scriptures? there was no Scriptures to be checked.because they carry Apostolic authority, that is why the Bible carries so much authority, it is the preserved form of apostolic teaching.
Even the people who heard the Apostles preach check them against scripture