My thoughts on the Pope's statements, and Islam

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CathCentrist said:
Catholics will remain stuck in the dark ages as long as they try to make excuses for the Church’s past as well as its (our leaders) quoting ancient passages and then coming off like those thoughts dont reflect their own. And then attacking those who call out the Church for this stuff as being “hostile” and “antagonistic” merely beucase we dont accept the gloss overs. Its a sad state of affairs.
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Your post shows your ignorance.

You’re not an expert in history so don’t pretend to be.

You’re the one stuck in the dark ages if you can’t see Christianity for what it is today. All you can see is the bad, not the good. You parallel present Catholicism w/ Islam. Are you so blind?? You see any violent deeds done by Catholic Christians compared to Muslims? Did not John Paul apologize for the wrongs done by Catholic Christians?
Do you see Muslims did any such thing?

Pope Benedict has every right to say the truth about Islam. He’s not the hypocrite here !

Look to the state of the Church in the present. Not in the dark ages!

A shame to call yourself a Catholic!
 
Lord, change the hardness of our hearts, all of us! For we have forgotten how to love. For without love, how can we be your children.
We have been so uncharitable to these people, why? Because we are not imitating Christ, but deserting his ways and going to our own human thoughts. Just because radical Islamists have begin a rage at the Pope, does not mean that we should become unloving. We have been shown the way, by Christ, let us show people then.
We are even arguing against our fellow Catholics. Let us put this to an end, for we know the Lord is watching. He sees all the terrible things happen, and he knows. 🙂
 
Richardols said:
I didn’t have to go that far. A Fundamentalist street preacher right here in Little Rock told me that all Catholics are going to Hell if they don’t accept Jesus.
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But that Fundamentalist street preacher isn’t as likely to strap a bomb to himself and kill innocents.

I am not concerned about what these people say - I am however - extremely concerned about what they will do.
 
I think that the Holy Father likely made a mistake in quoting some obscure Byzantine emporer who said that Mohammed had brought only evil into the world. It doesn’t seen that Muslims were angry about the violence angle so much as they were (and some still are) about the insult made to their prophet.

I also found the Holy Father’s apology to be lacking. If that was his intent, he shouldn’t have made one at all because it clearly fell flat. We don’t go to confession and say that we are sorry if God is mad about what we did; we say that we are sorry for what we have done.
 
Thekla said:
I think that the Holy Father likely made a mistake in quoting some obscure Byzantine emporer who said that Mohammed had brought only evil into the world. It doesn’t seen that Muslims were angry about the violence angle so much as they were (and some still are) about the insult made to their prophet.

I also found the Holy Father’s apology to be lacking. If that was his intent, he shouldn’t have made one at all because it clearly fell flat. We don’t go to confession and say that we are sorry if God is mad about what we did; we say that we are sorry for what we have done.
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While this is good, it is debatable, at least the first part and the first sentence of the last part. Firstly, we must know what the Holy Father, meant, before we make any assumptions. And this is evidently the trap of the media which you might have gotten into, for they quote the same quotes over and over again, but never actually play the WHOLE thing. If one looked at the WHOLE thing, any misinterpretaions might be easier to get over than it currently is. Reading the whole thing will clearly show that this wasn’t the plan of the Pope, because, if you read it you will see more clearly the main point of the speech.

People take the quote out of context, which is just as opening the possibility of misunderstanding as taking a Bible quote out of context.
 
It’s not a matter of the Pope’s comments to be hard to understand. The reason the whole thing has gotten out of hand is that the media chose to promote one line of his lecture. The Pope should have apologized on behalf of the media that likes to stir the pot. Yikes.

As far as how to take care of the Muslims, Fulton Sheen laid out a great plan in “The Worlds First Love” in his chapter “Mary and the Moslems”.

catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=4000
Missionaries in the future will, more and more, see that their apostolate among the Moslems will be successful in the measure that they preach Our Lady of Fatima. Mary is the advent of Christ, bringing Christ to the people before Christ Himself is born. In an apologetic endeavor, it is always best to start with that which people already accept. Because the Moslems have a devotion to Mary, our missionaries should be satisfied merely to expand and to develop that devotion, with the full realization that Our Blessed Lady will carry the Moslems the rest of the way to her divine Son. She is forever a “traitor,” in the sense that she will not accept any devotion for herself, but will always bring anyone who is devoted to her to her divine Son. As those who lose devotion to her lose belief in the divinity of Christ, so those who intensify devotion to her gradually acquire that belief.
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CathCentrist said:
Catholics will remain stuck in the dark ages as long as they try to make excuses for the Church’s past as well as its (our leaders) quoting ancient passages and then coming off like those thoughts dont reflect their own. And then attacking those who call out the Church for this stuff as being “hostile” and “antagonistic” merely beucase we dont accept the gloss overs. Its a sad state of affairs.
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I agree. I’m tired of people making excuses for bishops like Mahony, Weakland, Gumbleton, Tod Brown, and the whole lot of the USCCB who stood by (and continue to stand by) while innocent adolescent boys are being sexually abused by homosexual priests.

I’m tired of the Call to Action crowd whining about women’s ordination when they oppose nearly every Catholic moral doctrine. I’ve yet to hear any of them call for the removal of the homosexual perpatrators of ephebophilia (which is the correct term for sexual abuse of adolescents).

Yes, it is a sad state of affairs when modernist ideologues are more concerned about a speech given by the pope than they are about actual crimes committed by ephebophile priests.

I guess if the sexual molestors agree with your ideology they don’t have to be held accountable for their actions.

It’s not only sad, it’s shameful.
 
Image_of_God said:
While this is good, it is debatable, at least the first part and the first sentence of the last part. Firstly, we must know what the Holy Father, meant, before we make any assumptions. And this is evidently the trap of the media which you might have gotten into, for they quote the same quotes over and over again, but never actually play the WHOLE thing. If one looked at the WHOLE thing, any misinterpretaions might be easier to get over than it currently is. Reading the whole thing will clearly show that this wasn’t the plan of the Pope, because, if you read it you will see more clearly the main point of the speech.

People take the quote out of context, which is just as opening the possibility of misunderstanding as taking a Bible quote out of context.
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I think that you have made the mistake of assuming that I had not already read the text of the Holy Father’s lecture. While it may be a little bit “in the weeds” for me, I get the gist of it. But the fact remains that in his lecture, he quoted someone who long ago said that Mohammed had brought nothing but evil into the world. The Holy Father is not just anyone, as we all know. I think that regardless of the faith, he is considered throughout the world as a holy man.

You cannot quote someone else who says something terribly insulting and aimed directly at the heart of someone else’s faith and not expect people to feel insulted. And then when they are you act surprised? You say you’re sorry that they were offended? That’s not much of an apology or an act of contrition that would stand up during confession.
 
bones_IV said:
This statement of yours is just a bunch of dribble. That does the Thirty years war have to do w/ spreading religion or the crusades? Answer? Absolutely nothing. Secondly, there’s nothing in Catholic theology nor in scripture that says spread the faith by the sword. The Koran and Mohammed taught spreading the faith by violence!
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This is exactly the point. Christians throughout history have perpetuated violence too, even now, with the violence of sexual scandals, for example, but there is a big difference. The Christians who sinned did so AGAINST the teachings of the Church and God’s Word, whereas Islam preaches violence.
 
Thekla said:
You cannot quote someone else who says something terribly insulting and aimed directly at the heart of someone else’s faith and not expect people to feel insulted. And then when they are you act surprised? You say you’re sorry that they were offended? That’s not much of an apology or an act of contrition that would stand up during confession.
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Sometimes the truth hurts but must be told if there will be any hope for repentance and conversion. (I think they still teach that in seminary today) To apologize, to say what you said was wrong and not the truth would not produce the desired result and is not recommended. The intent was to start a dialog which may lead the “moderate” in Islam to reflection.
 
Any other responses on my thoughts on Islam? And I don’t think I’ve seen any responses to my “take” on the crusades and inquisition…
 
CocamoJoe said:
Any other responses on my thoughts on Islam? And I don’t think I’ve seen any responses to my “take” on the crusades and inquisition…
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I think in this very thread we have seen a scale model of the crusades and inquisition. 😛

As far as Islam, I don’t know that much about it but Christianity is all about peace and look here we can’t even discuss a topic among ourselves without calling each other names and assigning nefarious motives to each other.

When we as Christians cannot even discuss a topic without resorting to personal insults, name-calling, and the like, then the casual observer might see all of this and think that Catholicism is a faith of discord and bickering.

We look at those who do violence and say it is because of their religion. I look at this thread and see verbal violence and wonder if we could agree that it is Catholicism that is causing it. If we can’t, then maybe we cannot see clearly to assign some other religion as the “cause” of their violence.

Is it really true that Catholics who have a different view on their faith, the pronouncements of leaders, or political events, than we have are our enemies? With attitudes like that, we don’t need outside help to cause our own church to implode.

Alan
 
bones_IV said:
That is most insulting thing I’ve ever heard in my life! I’m hurt by that. You should take some lessons in respecting other’s instead of making irresponsible statements like that.
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An irresponsible statement? Not at all. My response was to what you said, “This statement of yours is just a bunch of dribble.”

A bunch of dribble??? Really. Was yours a responsible statement? Was it supposed to be an intelligent response to my post, a reasoned rebuttal of what I stated? How was that any sort of appropriate and intelligent reply to me?

If you are so sensitive about respecting others, you might have started by respecting me and what I said, and then rebutted me rather than just posting an insult.
 
cathgal said:
Your post shows your ignorance.

You’re not an expert in history so don’t pretend to be.

You’re the one stuck in the dark ages

Are you so blind??

A shame to call yourself a Catholic!
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Cathgal, your response is one uncharitable insult after another. If you were so offended by the post, then why didn’t you respond to the points made in it by CathCentrist? Ad hominems don’t ever win arguments.
 
bones_IV said:
Peters isn’t right about everything. I’m right in defending the inquisitions and I’ll defend them any day.
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Fine. You defend the Inquisition.

As for me, it was a nasty piece of business all around and I consider such witch and heretic hunting unconscionable and a black mark on our faith that plagues us to this day. Why are Catholics still forced to “defend” its excesses centuries after those went on?

You might note that there were no Inquisitions in Catholic Poland (my people!), Catholic Germany, nor in Catholic Britain, Scotland, or Ireland, and that even the Italian Inquisition was nothing like the horrors of that in Spain.
 
Thekla said:
I also found the Holy Father’s apology to be lacking. If that was his intent, he shouldn’t have made one at all because it clearly fell flat. We don’t go to confession and say that we are sorry if God is mad about what we did; we say that we are sorry for what we have done.
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I agree. Though what he said was misinterpreted, B16’s “apology” was very weak. It was too much like what we hear too much from politicians, “I’m sorry if anyone took offense,” which is not actually apologizing.

Your comparison with Confession was on point.
 
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