N
nablaise
Guest
I don’t believe in new revelations. I believe that Jesus is the Word of God incarnate, and last revelation. What I was saying is not what I believe, but what I am assuming Mohammad may have believed.
- Status
N
nablaise
Guest
God is spirit, and his Word is Truth itself, not human syllables or Arabic like Islam claims.
God’s words, God’s language is truth itself.
This is why a true prophet is one who speak truthfully and witness to the truth. Everyone who speak truth and what is true have the words of God in his mouth.
The idea that you can ‘recite’ the words of God is corrupt from the foundation. Words are pronounced through time and God is not in time. Prophets don’t recite the words of God, they translate the Eternal Word which is outside Time into human words which are in time.
They translate eternal facts which are outside of Time into human and visible acts which are in time.
This is how they proclaim, and witness to the Truth.
Therefore the Prophet who have the words of God in his mouth, is the one who is full of truth and grace Jesus, not Mohammad who said that it can be justified to lie and proclaimed this as prophecy/truth.
God bless
J
jakasaki
Guest
And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’
When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
Dueteronomy 18:21-22
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Jakasaki has described the false prophet.
If Muslims want to debate, then use the Quran but don’t use its interpretation of the Bible against us. It fails every time because it is not true.
The universal, apostolic faith of the Latin/Orthodox Church comes from the original apostles who witnessed Jesus Christ; they knew Him, they were not war with anyone, but travelled with him for some time. They learned from Jesus. And there was not just one man that people can easily disprove…or even 2 witnesses…
I have read a report on those who do documentaries of human events, that for one to be credible…there has to be atleast 10 witnesses.
Christ had 12 witnesses, although 1 betrayed Him…that person was later replaced by Matthias…by the drawing of lots…as the Apostles themselves knew they were not capable of selecting a replacement for Judas Iscariot. They left the choosing to providence in the use of lots.
It is even worse when a different culture, whose history has been battling Israel for thousands of years, then takes on their religion and culture…and makes Islam the definer of Judaism. This is fake and I read that there are Muslim scholars who also know they do not have the right to define Judaism or Christianity for that matter.
It is better for Islam to remain and explain its religion but not use people, places or things or events from the Judeo Christian Bible. You fail every time and it can upset people because they know you are interpreting our religion wrong.
Ours requires a deep conversion of the heart and to live a new life not in ourselves and the need for power over people, but submission to Christ and becoming a humble servant of peace and love.
If Muslims want to debate, then use the Quran but don’t use its interpretation of the Bible against us. It fails every time because it is not true.
The universal, apostolic faith of the Latin/Orthodox Church comes from the original apostles who witnessed Jesus Christ; they knew Him, they were not war with anyone, but travelled with him for some time. They learned from Jesus. And there was not just one man that people can easily disprove…or even 2 witnesses…
I have read a report on those who do documentaries of human events, that for one to be credible…there has to be atleast 10 witnesses.
Christ had 12 witnesses, although 1 betrayed Him…that person was later replaced by Matthias…by the drawing of lots…as the Apostles themselves knew they were not capable of selecting a replacement for Judas Iscariot. They left the choosing to providence in the use of lots.
It is even worse when a different culture, whose history has been battling Israel for thousands of years, then takes on their religion and culture…and makes Islam the definer of Judaism. This is fake and I read that there are Muslim scholars who also know they do not have the right to define Judaism or Christianity for that matter.
It is better for Islam to remain and explain its religion but not use people, places or things or events from the Judeo Christian Bible. You fail every time and it can upset people because they know you are interpreting our religion wrong.
Ours requires a deep conversion of the heart and to live a new life not in ourselves and the need for power over people, but submission to Christ and becoming a humble servant of peace and love.
S
schaick
Guest
The revelations Mohammad thought he was having are a result of Temporal Lobe Seizures, a type of seizure where the sufferer sees God or has some sort of a religious experience:
The following are signs of this type of seizures, the bold ones were experienced by Mohammad.
• Hallucinations
• **A sudden sense of unprovoked fear **
• A deja vu experience
• The sudden occurrence of a strange odor or taste
• **Loss of awareness of surroundings **
• **Staring
• Lip smacking
• Repeated swallowing or chewing **
• Unusual finger movements, such as picking motions
• **Epigastric sensations - A rising sensation in the abdomen **
• **An out-of-body feeling **
• **Sweating **
• **Flushed face **
• **Rapid heart rate **
books.google.com/books?id=bDOlAjrkZl8C&pg=PA113&lpg=PA113&dq=hadiths+and+temporal+lobe+seizures&source=bl&ots=-O9zw7k7s9&sig=nrP3My-MFLXl48qxE-bLRgW3wAI&hl=en&ei=H2FJTZz6LoqugQehidUl&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBoQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false
The first to suspect that Muhammad had epilepsy was Halima or her husband, when Muhammad was five ears old. Theophanes, 192 [752-817] a Byzantine historian was the first scholar to claim that Muhammad suffered from epilepsy. Today we can confirm this claim:
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 1, Number 2:
Narrated 'Aisha: (the mother of the faithful believers) Al-Harith bin Hisham asked Allah’s Apostle “O Allah’s Apostle! How is the Divine Inspiration revealed to you?” Allah’s Apostle replied, “Sometimes it is (revealed) like the ringing of a bell, this form of Inspiration is the hardest of all and then this state passes ’ off after I have grasped what is inspired. Sometimes the Angel comes in the form of a man and talks to me and I grasp whatever he says.” 'Aisha added: Verily I saw the Prophet being inspired Divinely** on a very cold day and noticed the Sweat dropping from his forehead **(as the Inspiration was over).
Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3:
Narrated 'Aisha: …
The Prophet added, "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more.
…
Then Allah’s Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, **“Cover me! Cover me!” They covered him till his fear was over **and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, “I fear that something may happen to me.”
…
Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 1, Number 4:
Narrated Said bin Jubair: Ibn 'Abbas in the explanation of the Statement of Allah. 'Move not your tongue concerning (the Quran) to make haste therewith." (75.16) Said “Allah’s Apostle used to bear the revelation with great trouble and used to move his lips (quickly) with the Inspiration.”
Ibn Sa’d says, "at the moment of inspiration, anxiety pressed upon the Prophet, and his countenance was troubled.
Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 660:
Narrated Aisha: **Magic was worked on Allah’s Apostle so that he used to think that he had sexual relations with his wives while he actually had not **(Sufyan said: That is the hardest kind of magic as it has such an effect). Then one day he said, "O ‘Aisha do you know that Allah has instructed me concerning the matter I asked Him about? Two men came to me and one of them sat near my head and the other sat near my feet. The one near my head asked the other. What is wrong with this man?’ The latter replied the is under the effect of magic The first one asked, Who has worked magic on him?’
Bukhari, Volume 9, Number 111:
…
Then Allah’s Apostle returned with the Inspiration, his **neck muscles twitching with terror **till he entered upon Khadija and said, “Cover me! Cover me!”
Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 345:
Narrated Abu Dhar:
Allah’s Apostle said, "While I was at Mecca the roof of my house was opened and Gabriel descended, opened my chest, and washed it with Zam-zam water. Then he brought a golden tray full of wisdom and faith and having poured its contents into my chest, he closed it. Then he took my hand and ascended with me to the nearest heaven, when I reached the nearest heaven, Gabriel said to the gatekeeper of the heaven, ‘Open (the gate).’ The gatekeeper asked, ‘Who is it?’ Gabriel answered: ‘Gabriel.’ He asked, ‘Is there anyone with you?’ Gabriel replied, ‘Yes, Muhammad I is with me.’ He asked, ‘Has he been called?’ Gabriel said, ‘Yes.’ So the gate was opened and we went over the nearest heaven and there we saw a man sitting with some people on his right and some on his left. When he looked towards his right, he laughed and when he looked toward his left he wept. Then he said, ‘Welcome! O pious Prophet and pious son.’ I asked Gabriel, ‘Who is he?’ He replied, ‘He is Adam and the people on his right and left are the souls of his offspring. Those on his right are the people of Paradise and those on his left are the people of Hell and when he looks towards his right he laughs and when he looks towards his left he weeps.’
The following are signs of this type of seizures, the bold ones were experienced by Mohammad.
• Hallucinations
• **A sudden sense of unprovoked fear **
• A deja vu experience
• The sudden occurrence of a strange odor or taste
• **Loss of awareness of surroundings **
• **Staring
• Lip smacking
• Repeated swallowing or chewing **
• Unusual finger movements, such as picking motions
• **Epigastric sensations - A rising sensation in the abdomen **
• **An out-of-body feeling **
• **Sweating **
• **Flushed face **
• **Rapid heart rate **
books.google.com/books?id=bDOlAjrkZl8C&pg=PA113&lpg=PA113&dq=hadiths+and+temporal+lobe+seizures&source=bl&ots=-O9zw7k7s9&sig=nrP3My-MFLXl48qxE-bLRgW3wAI&hl=en&ei=H2FJTZz6LoqugQehidUl&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBoQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false
The first to suspect that Muhammad had epilepsy was Halima or her husband, when Muhammad was five ears old. Theophanes, 192 [752-817] a Byzantine historian was the first scholar to claim that Muhammad suffered from epilepsy. Today we can confirm this claim:
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 1, Number 2:
Narrated 'Aisha: (the mother of the faithful believers) Al-Harith bin Hisham asked Allah’s Apostle “O Allah’s Apostle! How is the Divine Inspiration revealed to you?” Allah’s Apostle replied, “Sometimes it is (revealed) like the ringing of a bell, this form of Inspiration is the hardest of all and then this state passes ’ off after I have grasped what is inspired. Sometimes the Angel comes in the form of a man and talks to me and I grasp whatever he says.” 'Aisha added: Verily I saw the Prophet being inspired Divinely** on a very cold day and noticed the Sweat dropping from his forehead **(as the Inspiration was over).
Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3:
Narrated 'Aisha: …
The Prophet added, "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more.
…
Then Allah’s Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, **“Cover me! Cover me!” They covered him till his fear was over **and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, “I fear that something may happen to me.”
…
Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 1, Number 4:
Narrated Said bin Jubair: Ibn 'Abbas in the explanation of the Statement of Allah. 'Move not your tongue concerning (the Quran) to make haste therewith." (75.16) Said “Allah’s Apostle used to bear the revelation with great trouble and used to move his lips (quickly) with the Inspiration.”
Ibn Sa’d says, "at the moment of inspiration, anxiety pressed upon the Prophet, and his countenance was troubled.
Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 660:
Narrated Aisha: **Magic was worked on Allah’s Apostle so that he used to think that he had sexual relations with his wives while he actually had not **(Sufyan said: That is the hardest kind of magic as it has such an effect). Then one day he said, "O ‘Aisha do you know that Allah has instructed me concerning the matter I asked Him about? Two men came to me and one of them sat near my head and the other sat near my feet. The one near my head asked the other. What is wrong with this man?’ The latter replied the is under the effect of magic The first one asked, Who has worked magic on him?’
Bukhari, Volume 9, Number 111:
…
Then Allah’s Apostle returned with the Inspiration, his **neck muscles twitching with terror **till he entered upon Khadija and said, “Cover me! Cover me!”
Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 345:
Narrated Abu Dhar:
Allah’s Apostle said, "While I was at Mecca the roof of my house was opened and Gabriel descended, opened my chest, and washed it with Zam-zam water. Then he brought a golden tray full of wisdom and faith and having poured its contents into my chest, he closed it. Then he took my hand and ascended with me to the nearest heaven, when I reached the nearest heaven, Gabriel said to the gatekeeper of the heaven, ‘Open (the gate).’ The gatekeeper asked, ‘Who is it?’ Gabriel answered: ‘Gabriel.’ He asked, ‘Is there anyone with you?’ Gabriel replied, ‘Yes, Muhammad I is with me.’ He asked, ‘Has he been called?’ Gabriel said, ‘Yes.’ So the gate was opened and we went over the nearest heaven and there we saw a man sitting with some people on his right and some on his left. When he looked towards his right, he laughed and when he looked toward his left he wept. Then he said, ‘Welcome! O pious Prophet and pious son.’ I asked Gabriel, ‘Who is he?’ He replied, ‘He is Adam and the people on his right and left are the souls of his offspring. Those on his right are the people of Paradise and those on his left are the people of Hell and when he looks towards his right he laughs and when he looks towards his left he weeps.’
S
Sister_Amy
Guest
It doesn’t avoid the issue–it tells the story. It just doesn’t go on a tirade about who is right or wrong. It’s a book for the guidance of humanity and while the story is significant in our understanding of religion, the name of the son is less so. At least, to Muslims. Islam doesn’t depend on it being one way or the other. So why engage in destructive argumentation about it?Thank you for you explanation.
However I think if the Quran “dodges” it, THAT is really surprising to me. All the years of scripture already inspired and written centuries before Islam, why would such a book avoid the issue.
MJ
S
Sister_Amy
Guest
Anything similar from the first three Gospels? Or just John and Revelation? Because that’s fascinating (that you didn’t mention anything outside those two.)
S
Sister_Amy
Guest
Bad reporting. Lack of journalistic integrity. Etc.
Ok, back to John20.28. Thomas answered and said to him,"My Lord and my God!"29Jesus said to him,“Have you came to believe because you have seen me? Blessed are those have not seen and have believed.”
Now let’s talk Trinity. It’s clearly condemned in the Koran but almost always as Father, Son, and Mary. When in reality the Trinity is Father, Son, and Holy Spirirt. So the Koran isn’t condemning the Trinity as Christians know it, but rather a heretical version of it. This Christians would also condemn and did.
Peace be with you.
gmcbroom
Now let’s talk Trinity. It’s clearly condemned in the Koran but almost always as Father, Son, and Mary. When in reality the Trinity is Father, Son, and Holy Spirirt. So the Koran isn’t condemning the Trinity as Christians know it, but rather a heretical version of it. This Christians would also condemn and did.
Peace be with you.
gmcbroom
S
Sister_Amy
Guest
You’re not quite right about that. The Qur’an condemns the Trinity, that’s for sure. But it never says Mary is part of it. Everything about the Trinity, however, is condemned, in addition to the worship of Mary, which while not part of the Trinity, is also a violation of Islamic principles.
F
FaithJoy
Guest
All inspired Word of God. This might be suspicious if the Koran was written 1st. The thing is, knowing the Bible was written hundreds of years before the Koran and then matching what Christians call Jesus to what Muslims call God, isn’t just luck. It only proves who Jesus is. Jesus is God. Word to word match on names ,but Muslims turn a blind eye.
Go through that Door ,who is Jesus, Sister Amy. He is the Truth and the Light!!
Sister Amy,
Oh? Then what about Surah 5:116-117. And when God said,"O Jesus Son of Mary, didst though say unto men,“Take me and my mother as gods, apart from God?”
It goes on further, but you you get my gist, he’s referring to just that. It’s clearly a mistaken form of the Trinity. The rest of that passage goes on to say that Jesus denies saying it. So one can draw from the passage that the version Mohammed is discussing is Father,Son, and Mary. Which of course isn’t what Christians believe. There may have been heretical christians at that time who believed it but not the majority of Christians then or now.
Peace be with you.
gmcbroom
Oh? Then what about Surah 5:116-117. And when God said,"O Jesus Son of Mary, didst though say unto men,“Take me and my mother as gods, apart from God?”
It goes on further, but you you get my gist, he’s referring to just that. It’s clearly a mistaken form of the Trinity. The rest of that passage goes on to say that Jesus denies saying it. So one can draw from the passage that the version Mohammed is discussing is Father,Son, and Mary. Which of course isn’t what Christians believe. There may have been heretical christians at that time who believed it but not the majority of Christians then or now.
Peace be with you.
gmcbroom
Sister Amy,
Then there is Surah 6:100-101, Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could he have a son when he has no consort, and he himself created everything, and he is the knower of all things.
or
Surah 72:3 The truth is that-exalted be the majesty of our Lord.-He has taken unto himself neither wife nor son.
Sounds like The Father, The Son, and Mary to me.
Peace be with you
gmcbroom
Then there is Surah 6:100-101, Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could he have a son when he has no consort, and he himself created everything, and he is the knower of all things.
or
Surah 72:3 The truth is that-exalted be the majesty of our Lord.-He has taken unto himself neither wife nor son.
Sounds like The Father, The Son, and Mary to me.
Peace be with you
gmcbroom
J
John_Paul_Jones
Guest
Maybe you should read on to Deuteronomy 18:20 "But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."
this verse too could be relevant for muhammed
for saying
"nablaise:
I’ve read what you wrote and some of it I can not agree, I won’t think that you believe what muslims believe unless state so. While to some there may be some similarities between islam and Abraham cycle, it’s nothing to do with islam. You have to remember that the rise of islam came two and a half millennium after Abraham. Abraham didn’t write his part in the Bible but was written about, so it’s better to think about the whole story and why it was written - not just take bits and pieces of what is written and make it mean something.
but you also said you believe it is possible that Abraham and Ishmael restored the ka’aba,
- Find the verse in the Bible that says Abraham and Ishmael restored the ka’aba
- or provide an archaeological source that states Abraham and Ishmael did indeed restored the ka’aba
Heaven is only possible because of the Holy Trinity.
N
nablaise
Guest
@ Jean Paul Jones
So what’s wrong with saying that Christians were struggling with the Trinity while they were comfortable with statues? (may be I should highlight that ‘they were struggling to understand the Trinity’ in case you don’t see that this is what I meant?)
Take a look at this map and read up those centuries before Mohammad. Also read up on Christians in Arabia before Mohammad. Accounts may not have hard proofs, but some many not be incredible.
Instead of reading what I am writing and get the general simple message/picture, you are the one who is doing what you accuse me of doing: “take bits and pieces of what is written and make it mean something.” I am taking related bits and pieces and trying to solve the puzzle. That is different from making bits mean something.
I have Muslim friends. When I talk to them, I listen to them carefully, and there are things they believe honestly and with simplicity and which may be true. I am not against anything which is true. However, if I must help my friends to the fullness of the truth, one thing I have to be careful not to do is to deny what is true or what may be true. I have to be sure of what is true, what is not true, what may be true, what is essential, and what is not essential. But one thing for sure, I must not be against the truth. So I welcome any data which helps me for this goal.
God bless
So what’s wrong with saying that Christians were struggling with the Trinity while they were comfortable with statues? (may be I should highlight that ‘they were struggling to understand the Trinity’ in case you don’t see that this is what I meant?)
Take a look at this map and read up those centuries before Mohammad. Also read up on Christians in Arabia before Mohammad. Accounts may not have hard proofs, but some many not be incredible.
Instead of reading what I am writing and get the general simple message/picture, you are the one who is doing what you accuse me of doing: “take bits and pieces of what is written and make it mean something.” I am taking related bits and pieces and trying to solve the puzzle. That is different from making bits mean something.
I have Muslim friends. When I talk to them, I listen to them carefully, and there are things they believe honestly and with simplicity and which may be true. I am not against anything which is true. However, if I must help my friends to the fullness of the truth, one thing I have to be careful not to do is to deny what is true or what may be true. I have to be sure of what is true, what is not true, what may be true, what is essential, and what is not essential. But one thing for sure, I must not be against the truth. So I welcome any data which helps me for this goal.
God bless
H
hamba2han
Guest
I have quoted Deuteronomy 18:18 in my previous posts but in reply, people are quoting Deuteronomy 18:20 as if to rebut the arguments I have put forward.
Well OK then… but I think we should also consider Deuteronomy 18:19 since it lies in between the two aforementioned verses.
And he that will not hear his words, which he shall speak in My name, I will be the revenger. … Douay-Rheims Bible 18:19
It is interesting to note that the word “revenger” is only found in the Douay-Rheims Bible but I think it is the most accurate translation since one of the 99 Names of Allah is AL- MUNTAQIM – The Lord of Retribution, The Avenger
And one of the verses where this name of Allah is found in the Qur’an is:
And who does more wrong than one to whom are recited the Signs of his Lord, and who then turns away therefrom? Verily from those who transgress We shall exact (due) Retribution. … Al-Qur’an 32:22
Just something to think about regarding verses found in both the Old Testament and the Qur’an.
Well OK then… but I think we should also consider Deuteronomy 18:19 since it lies in between the two aforementioned verses.
And he that will not hear his words, which he shall speak in My name, I will be the revenger. … Douay-Rheims Bible 18:19
It is interesting to note that the word “revenger” is only found in the Douay-Rheims Bible but I think it is the most accurate translation since one of the 99 Names of Allah is AL- MUNTAQIM – The Lord of Retribution, The Avenger
And one of the verses where this name of Allah is found in the Qur’an is:
And who does more wrong than one to whom are recited the Signs of his Lord, and who then turns away therefrom? Verily from those who transgress We shall exact (due) Retribution. … Al-Qur’an 32:22
Just something to think about regarding verses found in both the Old Testament and the Qur’an.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Peter used a sword and cut off the ear of one of the soldiers who came to arrest Jesus on Holy Thursday. Christ picked up the ear and put it back to the man’s head, and he was healed.
Christ, the Living Word Made Flesh, fulfilled all the teachings of the Old Testament, through His teachings and new fulfilled morality in love of God and neighbor; the Holy Spirit at Pentecost—the beginning of Christ’s Church, gave new understanding to ancient texts that now completed understanding of the Old and New Testaments.
Without being Jewish, you cannot understand the Old Testament without seeing it through the prism of Islam. Without Christ, you cannot understand the Old Testament and then see how Christ is the fulfilled Living Wordof the Word of God found in the entire Scripture.
You can’t take a single phrase or word, especially in translations, to prove your point, because Judeo Christianity is based on a living and filial relationship with God, Christ Himself as the only acceptable sacrifice able to restorate fallen humanity to God and to neighbor. Before God, we are all equal. Words or phrases prove nothing of this reality that we are all God’s children.
Before Christ, the commandments and the Law were the rule of faith for the Jewish people. When Christ came, lived, died, and was resurrected, He turned all laws into blessings.
If you curse and do not bless, then you bring curses on yourself and backwardness, contiunual fighting, and poverty. If you bless, you bring goodness to you and your lands.
Christ does not preach a gospel of hate and murder, and seeing other human beings as wretched inferiors, undeserving of prayers. We pray for people all over the world every day. Every day at Mass, we pray for all those who are suffering in the world.
In regards to the take on the Dhouy Reims’ ‘revenge’ by “Hamba”, Christ said whoever lives by the sword will die by it.
Be careful of what you want to draw on. Revenge, tit for tat, this is how people used to live in ancient times.
Christ, the Living Word Made Flesh, fulfilled all the teachings of the Old Testament, through His teachings and new fulfilled morality in love of God and neighbor; the Holy Spirit at Pentecost—the beginning of Christ’s Church, gave new understanding to ancient texts that now completed understanding of the Old and New Testaments.
Without being Jewish, you cannot understand the Old Testament without seeing it through the prism of Islam. Without Christ, you cannot understand the Old Testament and then see how Christ is the fulfilled Living Wordof the Word of God found in the entire Scripture.
You can’t take a single phrase or word, especially in translations, to prove your point, because Judeo Christianity is based on a living and filial relationship with God, Christ Himself as the only acceptable sacrifice able to restorate fallen humanity to God and to neighbor. Before God, we are all equal. Words or phrases prove nothing of this reality that we are all God’s children.
Before Christ, the commandments and the Law were the rule of faith for the Jewish people. When Christ came, lived, died, and was resurrected, He turned all laws into blessings.
If you curse and do not bless, then you bring curses on yourself and backwardness, contiunual fighting, and poverty. If you bless, you bring goodness to you and your lands.
Christ does not preach a gospel of hate and murder, and seeing other human beings as wretched inferiors, undeserving of prayers. We pray for people all over the world every day. Every day at Mass, we pray for all those who are suffering in the world.
In regards to the take on the Dhouy Reims’ ‘revenge’ by “Hamba”, Christ said whoever lives by the sword will die by it.
Be careful of what you want to draw on. Revenge, tit for tat, this is how people used to live in ancient times.
V
Verisimilitude
Guest
My conclusion was that he was deceived by a demon- the same that tempted Christ in the desert 600 years before. Once deceived he was a willing participant.
I have not found any credible source that indicates Ishmael ever went so far south to Arabia with or without Abraham.
Jouneys to Mecca seem unrealistic.
Israel had many prophets. All were Jews and all were keeping the commandments of God even if imperfectly they knew of them. Mohammed and the pagan Arabs in Arabia knew nothing of and did not keep any of the Jewish traditions before his first revelation. There is no reasonable affinity. Mohammed is illigitimate as a prophet.
He did so by war, threat of war, boycotts and embargos. He knew where he was going. His goal was to make all of Arabia Moslem by hook or crook.
From the one whispering in his ear:
[Iblis (Satan)] said: “See this one whom You have honoured above me, if You give me respite (keep me alive) to the Day of Resurrection, I will surely seize and mislead his offspring (by sending them astray) all but a few!”
( سورة الإسراء , Al-Isra, Chapter #17, Verse #62)
I’ll take issue wih your charcaterization in the bolded portion above. If you mean the instructions God gave to kill all the men, women, children and animals when the Jews were winning the promised land- as I read it God did so specifically for two reasons. 1st is to protect the Jews from having false ideologies among them. 2nd was to show the Jews it was not a conquest to gain spoils of war and profit. They were to trust and rely on God alone who has promised to provide for them.
Mohammed was just the opposite. He waged war to feed his growing army once he fled to Medina. Before fleeing he had maybe a few hundred followers. After he fled it grew only in relation to the wars he waged. It was the promise of plunder that united Arabia. Mohammed took 20% of all war booty. It wasn’t a bad deal when there were 5,000 soldiers, but when it grew to tens of thousands they needed more land and people to conqure.
I disagree with most of that too but won’t address it here.
Mohammed associates himself as most close to Jesus in this world and the next. They take no issue with Jesus being perfect so they wrongly associate Mohammed as being perfect.
Abu Huraira reported many ahadith from Allah’s Messenger and one is that Allah’s Messenger said: I am most close to Jesus, son of Mary, among the whole of mankind in this worldly life and the next life. They said: Allah’s Messenger how is it? Thereupon he said: Prophets are brothers in faith, having different mothers. Their religion is, however, one and there is no Apostle between us (between I and Jesus Christ). (Book #030, Hadith #5836)~Muslim
While we certainly have a duty to live our lives in accordance with the two greatest commandments as example we also have a duty to the truth as we know it. Jesus and Pilate had this discussion and as such I think in some cases the best we can do is to vocally reject what we know to be false- the Quran. It should be rejected in its entirety as a revelation of God. Any ‘truth’ in it where it agrees with Scripture is tainted by where it departs from Scripture.
- Status