My wife will never submit to me...should that matter?

[buzzoff1031]

OK, so just a tad of background. When my wife and I married neither of us were Christian. I came back to a childhood (protestant) faith later on. I also later converted to Catholicism. Through the years I’ve done a lot of stupid stuff (changing jobs often, dropping out of college when I could easily have finished, porn, et al). Also, my wife is a pretty smart cookie.

OK, so forward to now. My wife is still not a Christian. She is embittered because of the stupid stuff I’ve done and how I haven’t loved her as I should (at times I’ve been a downright jerk). She thinks I’m stupid (and being honest, rightfully so). All this being said, I don’t think she’ll ever submit to me as her husband. She will always try to “rule the roost”. I can fight with her and get her to back down on some things, but therein lies my query. Should it matter?

Here is what I mean. Obviously I can’t change her mind. Also, if I do try to “make the decisions”, she gets upset. Jesus said that one desiring to be the leader, should become the servant. Should I take that to mean that I should let her make most of the decisions (unless they are against my faith) thereby demonstrating the way? Or put another way, should I “lead by example?”

 

[holy_face]

marriedmansexlife.com/

You should read this book and also participate in the forums, it is all about regaining the proper leadership role in the relationship, Christian headship. It is not all from a Christian perspective but most fits in quite well. Many men are realizing that surrendering this leadership creates a very unhappy relationship for both men and women. The women can actually become unattracted over time to husbands that display weakness and submissive behavior, it is often the cause of many affairs or lack of sex as the female will biologically be attracted to more dominant males.

I have used this to better my marriage and it worked almost immediately. I didn’t have major crisis but just some boundary issues, too much nagging, dominance from wife and such. I have regained the headship without too much bloodshed

 

[eeriechallenge]

Amen brother holy face. MMSL is an excellent book and the forums are top notch.

Another great resource for Christian husbands and marriagable men is at dalrock dot wordpress dot com. Tell Dalrock that Herbie Marcuse sent you!!

 

[phil_at_dayboro]

People lead by example, and if your trying to lead, then those that follow will look at how you lead, if your example of leading seem improper , illegal , or down right stupid ,
Then can you really blame them for not taking your advise or leadership ?
If your Wife /. Partner is half intelligent ,and smarter than you, then follow her lead…
There’s nothing wrong with being third in charge in a two person relationship…

 

[Petaro]

Submission requires respect. From the sounds of it you have given her no reason to respect you. A man cannot demand submission as if from a slave just because a woman loves you in marriage. I have never been comfortable with the concept at all when it comes to my wife. We are partners who submit to the better skilled between us. My wife does our taxes thank God. I make good investment decisions so she leaves me to it.
We live or fall by our combined strengths, not by submission of wills.
Try to become a man she can respect and things will turn around. It is not her fault.

 

[FaustinaJulia]

Some Bible verses which may be helpful. Reading in context is highly recommended:

Ephesians 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,

Colossians 3:19
Husbands, love your wives, and do not be harsh with them.

1 Peter 3:7
Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.

Ephesians 5:25-28
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.

1 Corinthians 7:1-40
Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

1 Corinthians 7:10-15
To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife. To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her. If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

Ephesians 5:21
Submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Ephesians 5:22
Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.

Ephesians 5:28
In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.

 

[nhamm10]

Submission requires respect. From the sounds of it you have given her no reason to respect you. A man cannot demand submission as if from a slave just because a woman loves you in marriage. I have never been comfortable with the concept at all when it comes to my wife. We are partners who submit to the better skilled between us. My wife does our taxes thank God. I make good investment decisions so she leaves me to it.
We live or fall by our combined strengths, not by submission of wills.
Try to become a man she can respect and things will turn around. It is not her fault.

How I feel exactly!

 

[Humbly_Hopeful]

Submission requires respect. From the sounds of it you have given her no reason to respect you. A man cannot demand submission as if from a slave just because a woman loves you in marriage. I have never been comfortable with the concept at all when it comes to my wife. We are partners who submit to the better skilled between us. My wife does our taxes thank God. I make good investment decisions so she leaves me to it.
We live or fall by our combined strengths, not by submission of wills.
Try to become a man she can respect and things will turn around. It is not her fault.

 

[Xantippe]

buzzoff1031:

It sounds like your wife has some well-founded concerns about your decision-making process. I even wonder whether you might have undiagnosed adult ADHD–if you can’t get a handle on your impulses by yourself, I would suggest getting an evaluation.

With regard to the impulsivity, I would suggest sloooooowing way down on any major decision and talking through all major decisions with your wife. Maybe start doing a week-long cooling off period before making any major decision? Given all the stuff you’ve pulled in the past, it sounds like you’re really lucky she’s still living under one roof with you (especially since she’s of no particular religion) --she must deep down really love you.

The best thing I can suggest for getting her to engage with you in the decision-making process is to do Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University personal finance class together. It’s a 9-week course. (I haven’t done the 9-week version, just the 13-week version, but there’s nothing a Catholic could object to.) It should cost around $100–which is just about what one marriage counseling session costs. If you do FPU, it will give you a lot more shared ground with regard to finances, which are undoubtedly a major area of disagreement in your household. It will also give you a better process with regard to decision-making. Having a constructive monthly budget meeting is the central part of the program. DR is very big on involving both spouses in the budget process (even the unwilling ones or the ones that have made huge financial mistakes or the ones that aren’t good at math). Both have a say into the budget–and then we stick exactly to the plan, unless there is agreement to change the plan in some way mid-month. A lot of people say that this is revolutionary (in a good way) for their marriages. That process gives you something ((name removed by moderator)ut at the budget meeting–it’s not over until you both agree) but it also gives your wife something (the confidence that you are going to follow-through on an agreement).

I was a very financially loosy-goosy gal and we had lots of arguments about money until we started doing DR and doing monthly budget meetings. We pretty much never argue about money these days, and I haven’t done anything hugely stupid with money in years. And, because of that, my husband trusts me with money and doesn’t question me about every little thing. You can earn the same trust by building up a track record of responsibility with your wife.

DR is an old-fashioned Evangelical type and a guy’s guy and a hard-driving entrepreneur, but at the same time, he has been married to the same woman for 30+ years and he believes in getting his wife’s (name removed by moderator)ut. “Every time I don’t listen to Sharon when she has one of those feeeelings, it costs me $10k,” is something he says a lot. He had several million in real estate debt as a 20-something, and took his family through bankruptcy and foreclosure before he learned to slow down and listen to his wife.

Best wishes!

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Submission requires respect. From the sounds of it you have given her no reason to respect you. A man cannot demand submission as if from a slave just because a woman loves you in marriage. I have never been comfortable with the concept at all when it comes to my wife. We are partners who submit to the better skilled between us. My wife does our taxes thank God. I make good investment decisions so she leaves me to it.
We live or fall by our combined strengths, not by submission of wills.
Try to become a man she can respect and things will turn around. It is not her fault.

 

[eeriechallenge]

@Petaro:

It is not her fault.

Of course it’s her fault. She’s in rebellion against her husband, is breaking her wedding vows, and is revealing herself to be a dishonorable and unworthy person. If the original poster doesn’t have kids, he should think seriously about a separation.

 

[RPRPsych]

Submission requires respect. From the sounds of it you have given her no reason to respect you. A man cannot demand submission as if from a slave just because a woman loves you in marriage.

I have never been comfortable with the concept at all when it comes to my wife. We are partners who submit to the better skilled between us. My wife does our taxes thank God. I make good investment decisions so she leaves me to it.
We live or fall by our combined strengths, not by submission of wills.
Try to become a man she can respect and things will turn around. It is not her fault.

These are words to live by.

The posters who recommended that “get laid a lot” book ought to be ashamed. They are debasing the Catholic concept of marriage and substituting a pagan, sexualized ideology for it.

 

[wild_thing]

Submission requires respect. From the sounds of it you have given her no reason to respect you. A man cannot demand submission as if from a slave just because a woman loves you in marriage. I have never been comfortable with the concept at all when it comes to my wife. We are partners who submit to the better skilled between us. My wife does our taxes thank God. I make good investment decisions so she leaves me to it.
We live or fall by our combined strengths, not by submission of wills.
Try to become a man she can respect and things will turn around. It is not her fault.

 

[RPRPsych]

@Petaro:

It is not her fault.

Of course it’s her fault. She’s in rebellion against her husband, is breaking her wedding vows, and is revealing herself to be a dishonorable and unworthy person. If the original poster doesn’t have kids, he should think seriously about a separation.

So should he marry a second wife? Or forty more?

The irony of a Mormon lecturing Catholics on marriage is staggering.

Also: way to judge a totally unknown woman’s character on the basis of your eisegesis of a single post on an Internet forum.

 

[eeriechallenge]

So should he marry a second wife? Or forty more?

The irony of a Mormon lecturing Catholics on marriage is staggering.

Also: way to judge a totally unknown woman’s character on the basis of your eisegesis of a single post on an Internet forum.

Is that what they do in Pondcherry?

Perhaps you could point to a scriptural reference supporting your position: That a man should be submissive to his wife. I don’t seem to see that in either the old or new testament.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

@Petaro:

It is not her fault.

Of course it’s her fault. She’s in rebellion against her husband, is breaking her wedding vows, and is revealing herself to be a dishonorable and unworthy person. If the original poster doesn’t have kids, he should think seriously about a separation.

If they weren’t Christian when they married, it’s highly unlikely that there was anything in their vows about this.

 

[RPRPsych]

Is that what they do in Pondcherry?

No, Hindus, Muslims and Christians are all monogamous as per Indian law.

Joseph Smith, on the other hand…

Perhaps you could point to a scriptural reference supporting your position: That a man should be submissive to his wife. I don’t seem to see that in either the old or new testament.

Where on Earth did I say that?

I objected to your shilling an “alpha male sex” book, to your judging a woman you’ve never known (and whom the OP clearly cares for), and to your advising him to separate.

Perhaps you could also point to New Testament references for (a) polygamy, and (b) divorcing your wife because she argues with you.

 

[eeriechallenge]

If they weren’t Christian when they married, it’s highly unlikely that there was anything in their vows about this.

What were the vows they said, exactly? Could you type them out for us?

 

[eeriechallenge]

@RPRPsych:

No, Hindus, Muslims and Christians are all monogamous as per Indian law. Joseph Smith, on the other hand…

So, you’re a bigot. That’s fine, but your hatred against my religious/ethnic group has what to do with the original poster, asking for help? The answer, of course, is nothing.

I objected to your shilling an “alpha male sex” book

That wasn’t me. Thank you.

Your advice to your fellow Catholic, who comes here asking for help, that he should double down and do “more of the same” is not good advice, it’s not sound, and is anti-Catholic. It’s the sort of **** that feminists on Jezebel give.

 

[Sochi]

Submit??? She’s not the problem, buddy… Why is she still with you???