Myth of evolution and new drug discovery

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I’m not sure where you are going with this, Reggie. Of course science has critiqued Darwin’s ideas. What do you think Mendelian genetics is about? Or DNA? Or biogeography? Or endosymbiosis? Or punctuated equilibrium? **Science has critiqued Darwin **since the day Origin of Species was published, and continues to do so. But most people are not so obsessed with Darwin.
Science has critiqued Darwin, but most people are not so obsessed with Darwin as science is – yes, I do agree. For myself, even to generate half the critique of Darwin that you’ve given here, I’d need to spend twice as much time thinking about Darwin.
With that, I’m not going to pursue or respond to this kind of argument any more. My point stands and you’re merely repeating yourself now.
Thank you and happy Thanksgiving.
 
Science has critiqued Darwin, but most people are not so obsessed with Darwin as science is – yes, I do agree. For myself, even to generate half the critique of Darwin that you’ve given here, I’d need to spend twice as much time thinking about Darwin.
With that, I’m not going to pursue or respond to this kind of argument any more. My point stands and you’re merely repeating yourself now.
Thank you and happy Thanksgiving.
We are now in the post-darwinian era.

Happy Thanksgiving reggieM.
 
We are now in the post-darwinian era. Happy Thanksgiving reggieM.
I wonder if Reggie and Ed can go two days without mentioning Darwin in their posts about evolution. My evolutionary biologist friends rarely mention the man outside the occasional historical references. Reggie and Ed (and perhaps you) seem unaware that science has absorbed Darwin’s original insights and moved well beyond it in 150 years.

Happy Thanksgiving to all three of you!
StAnastasia
 
Hi ed, reggie and buffalo,

I can reassure you regarding the media attention paid to Darwin. I read and glance through three newspapers a day here in the UK (The Times, The Independent and The Guardian), I also listen everyday to Radio Four and Radio Three and scan the TV listings for our main stream channels (BBC, ITV, C4). In the last week I have only heard, read and seen one reference to Darwin in those media - a couple of minutes on a science magazine radio programme on R4.

In the tabloids and on popular TV channels such as ITV one would wait a very, very, very long time before any reference to Darwin is made - and that will more than likely be a humourous (and usually both unflattering and inaccurate).

I must confess that the film Inherit The Wind was on a digital film channel last weekend however. Although I don’t have the viewing figures for it, it was up against Twilight and Die Hard 3. Maybe the UK TV viewers were all glued to it…hard to tell!

I think that you can all sleep easily regarding any media obsession with Darwin with respect to the UK at least.

BTW, I don’t think that StAnastasia needs rescuing. It seems that particular poster can take care of themselves quite well.
 
Hi ed, reggie and buffalo,

I can reassure you regarding the media attention paid to Darwin. I read and glance through three newspapers a day here in the UK (The Times, The Independent and The Guardian), I also listen everyday to Radio Four and Radio Three and scan the TV listings for our main stream channels (BBC, ITV, C4). In the last week I have only heard, read and seen one reference to Darwin in those media - a couple of minutes on a science magazine radio programme on R4.

In the tabloids and on popular TV channels such as ITV one would wait a very, very, very long time before any reference to Darwin is made - and that will more than likely be a humourous (and usually both unflattering and inaccurate).

I must confess that the film Inherit The Wind was on a digital film channel last weekend however. Although I don’t have the viewing figures for it, it was up against Twilight and Die Hard 3. Maybe the UK TV viewers were all glued to it…hard to tell!

I think that you can all sleep easily regarding any media obsession with Darwin with respect to the UK at least.

BTW, I don’t think that StAnastasia needs rescuing. It seems that particular poster can take care of themselves quite well.
Hello,

I scan the media as part of my job. The current anti-theist campaign is global in nature. I scan the BBC, the Chinese news service and others. It is all linked and reinforcing. The recent campaign in the US to put up billboards that read: Praise Darwin. Evolve beyond belief, is further evidence.

Like all social engineering projects carried out over the last four decades, this one bears all the typical earmarks of a propaganda campaign. This site, and others, are part of a system of eternal vigilance where some post to convert, confuse and obfuscate. It won’t work since God is part of the equation.

A Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Peace,
Ed
 
Hi ed, reggie and buffalo,

I can reassure you regarding the media attention paid to Darwin. I read and glance through three newspapers a day here in the UK (The Times, The Independent and The Guardian), I also listen everyday to Radio Four and Radio Three and scan the TV listings for our main stream channels (BBC, ITV, C4). In the last week I have only heard, read and seen one reference to Darwin in those media - a couple of minutes on a science magazine radio programme on R4.

In the tabloids and on popular TV channels such as ITV one would wait a very, very, very long time before any reference to Darwin is made - and that will more than likely be a humourous (and usually both unflattering and inaccurate).

I must confess that the film Inherit The Wind was on a digital film channel last weekend however. Although I don’t have the viewing figures for it, it was up against Twilight and Die Hard 3. Maybe the UK TV viewers were all glued to it…hard to tell!

I think that you can all sleep easily regarding any media obsession with Darwin with respect to the UK at least.

BTW, I don’t think that StAnastasia needs rescuing. It seems that particular poster can take care of themselves quite well.
In the US we have had Darwin Day. We have the year of Darwin, all advanced by guess who? The NCSE.
 
In the US we have had Darwin Day. We have the year of Darwin, all advanced by guess who? The NCSE.
It’s the Clergy Letter Project – all 13,000 clergy – that does Evolution Weekend.

StAnastasia
 
Hi ed, reggie and buffalo,

I can reassure you regarding the media attention paid to Darwin. I read and glance through three newspapers a day here in the UK (The Times, The Independent and The Guardian), I also listen everyday to Radio Four and Radio Three and scan the TV listings for our main stream channels (BBC, ITV, C4). In the last week I have only heard, read and seen one reference to Darwin in those media - a couple of minutes on a science magazine radio programme on R4.
That’s understandable, but it may be similar to the fact that one wouldn’t necessarily hear references to Chairman Mao in the Chinese media each day. His ideas are embedded in the structure of society so nobody needs to mention him. Or perhaps, one does not hear anyone talking about Margaret Sanger – but she developed the Planned Parenthood ideology that has caused a massive amount of damage in society in the U.S.
Lutherans do not talk about Martin Luther very much. Is Luther therefore irrelevant to reformation theology? We could look in the U.K. – King Henry VIII’s ecclesiastical reform does not merit any references in our daily news media. But his movement remains the point of origin for Anglicanism today.
In a more positive light – we don’t hear anyone talking about St. Peter the Apostle in our daily media. But his position as the foundation-stone of the Church of Christ has immense, worldwide and profound influence. Those who are aware of that life-changing fact may seem “obsessed” with either proving that the teachings on the Chair of Peter are true or false. But how one answers that question has far more impact on one’s life than what can be read in a decade of The Guardian’s (for one example) headlines and cover-stories.
 
In the tabloids and on popular TV channels such as ITV one would wait a very, very, very long time before any reference to Darwin is made - and that will more than likely be a humourous (and usually both unflattering and inaccurate).

I must confess that the film Inherit The Wind was on a digital film channel last weekend however. Although I don’t have the viewing figures for it, it was up against Twilight and Die Hard 3. Maybe the UK TV viewers were all glued to it…hard to tell!

I think that you can all sleep easily regarding any media obsession with Darwin with respect to the UK at least.
Fran – I’ll be very quick to agree that Darwin is as irrelevant to much of anything. But I will go further to claim that his theory itself has very little meaning or function even within the specialized world of science itself. Beyond that, for most people, Darwinian theory has no value at all – and one can dismiss it entirely without suffering any ill-effects.

But the fact that people have already absorbed Darwinian-concepts in their worldview means that they’re blind to the influences that have shaped their intellectual foundation (and which have destroyed their spiritual life, if they ever had one).
 
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Obsessed?

Nothing to be concerned about?
 
Fran – I’ll be very quick to agree that Darwin is as irrelevant to much of anything. But I will go further to claim that his theory itself has very little meaning or function even within the specialized world of science itself. Beyond that, for most people, Darwinian theory has no value at all – and one can dismiss it entirely without suffering any ill-effects.
Your statement about Darwinian theory lacks the necessary distinctions. There is no single Darwinian theory of evolution. Which one(s) of Charles Darwin’s evolution theories in particular do you believe “has no value at all” for “most people”, or in itself?
 
The billboard answers all questions about Darwin’s current influence. Textbook Evolution is the anti-theist creation story where mindless chemicals gave rise to men with minds. It is the faith statement that underpins all that is anti-God today. That and, “Show me God. If you can show me God I might believe in him.” By the way, the wife of this man, realizing I was a Christian, said, “Do you know your religion tells me that my son can’t masturbate?”

Intention is behind everything. Intention is behind our every action, good or bad. This universe was intended - it was never otherwise.

Peace,
Ed
 
I scan the media as part of my job. The current anti-theist campaign is global in nature. I scan the BBC, the Chinese news service and others. It is all linked and reinforcing. The recent campaign in the US to put up billboards that read: Praise Darwin. Evolve beyond belief, is further evidence.
Dear media scanner, I don’t mean to sound cynical, but all of this seems silly to me because, while having some truth to it, your views ignore many things of importance. Here are my pros and cons on this matter.

I think it was Dawkins who said Darwinism made it respectable for one to be an atheist. And Julian Huxley made a comment to the effect that the first benefit of Darwinism is that it liberated society from the constraints of sexual morals. (That is not an exact quote. I can find the text if anyone wants it.)

I agree that there has been and still is a concerted effort to promote Darwinism, uncritically, almost as an indoctrination. In the words of Stephen J. Gould, “We taught catechism.” That bit of honesty says it all. And I don’t think it is to the point you are concerned with for anyone to say that evolution theory has advanced beyond Darwin. Of course it has. The point here, though, is that neo-Darwinians in fact taught catechism. That should be totally unacceptable in the scientific arena. Teaching catechism is only justified in religion.

Darwinians actually give too much credit to Darwin. Darwin was certainly a brilliant naturalist and first rate investigator of nature. One of my favorite books is Darwin’s Voyage of the Beagle. But Voyage of the Beagle was Darwin before he became a Darwinian.

There is little to nothing in Darwin’s theories (plural) of evolution that is original. Nonetheles, Darwin claimed as his one and only point of originality to be the concept of “natural selection”. However, this was not honest. Darwin acquired the idea of natural selection from Edward Blythe. Darwin made written notes on Blythe’s publication on natural selection. Darwin’s phraseology about NS is eerily too close to Blythe’s publication on NS to be coincidental.

Loren Eiseley unveils the whole sordid story in Darwin and the Mysterious Mr. X. The only shortcoming of the book is that Eiseley acts as an apologist for Darwin and tries to explain how Darwin forgot where he learned about NS.

Still, in knowledge of these facts, the secular hagiographers, the gatekeepers of Darwinism, endeavor to make sure Darwin is viewed as the originator of NS theory. Their rationale, which I won’t present here, is lame.

Yet Darwin deserves immense credit for amassing scientific evidence, the best available in his day, to support his theories. Darwin’s errors, in my estimation, involved his over-extension of evolution theory to include man’s existence as totally a product of evolution. Also, Darwin interpreted all of nature, as well as man himself, through a materialist perspective.

Despite the errors of Darwin’s philosophical materialism, there is no justification for claiming that everything Darwin said is of no scientific value. In fact, Darwin has contributed immensely to our understanding of how nature works. That is almost a quote from Cardinal Schonborn.

Other than the justified criticism of Darwinian materialism and its profoundly adverse effects on culture, I can see no justification whatsoever for a total discounting of Darwinian science. Sure it has flaws, but evolution theory is revised as new evidence and new understanding of evidence is acquired.

I see no merit in debunking Darwinian science. It will go nowhere. Challenging Darwinian ideology is a different matter. However, you ID folks lump everything together, science an ideology, and as a consequence put forth arguments that only appear confused to me. (No disrespect intended. I’m just being honest about my reaction.)

The ID tact hasn’t work, and I don’t see how it can work, because it is ill-advised. You really need to focus on Darwinian ideology and show its philosophical shortcomings. But you can’t do that as of yet because you can’t seem to distinguish the good science from the ideology.

Hence, you will be going round in circles like this until the end of time (That’s my unofficial prophecy). As far as ideology is valuated, ID theory is closer to the truth than is Darwinian ideology. However, ID theory, as I have frequently stated, is philosophically confused. Only the sound philosophical position of classical philosophy, the philosophia perennis, can disprove Darwinian ideology. Other than that, any continued opposition to evolution on a scientific level is fruitless.

I have noted that you ID supporters on CAF have continually refused to answer my question as to why Cardinal Schonborn disassociates himself from ID theory, and why do not Thomists, in general, support ID theory. Thomists clearly support the obvious realityof design, with a philosophical analysis, but like Dubay, they do not align themselves with creation science or ID-ology and how it explains design in nature. Still, Dubay is perceptive to certain inadequacies of current Darwinian science, which I can’t discuss here.

Oftentimes, when I think about the status if ID theorists critique of evolution science, what comes to mind is a line from the movie “Gladiator”: “A people should know when they are defeated.” The only way for ID theorists to succeed it to challenge Darwinian ideology on genuine philosophical grounds, which so far appears to be unfamiliar territory for ID theorists.

An interesting article for your consideration: Thomas Aquinas vs. The Intelligent Designers: What is God’s Finger Doing in My Pre-Biotic Soup?

Well, that’s the end of my ramble…for now. :rolleyes:

Peace in Christ.
 
flagellum.

Listening to talk radio. an old(er) Laura Ingraham program.

And the guest [will get his name later] mentioned how the “development” of the flagellum of the paramecium suggests that intelligent design is at work, rather than evolution.

Just wanted to write note here for future reference.

biologos.org/

I think it was Dr. Collins who was on the radio.
 
Dear media scanner, I don’t mean to sound cynical, but all of this seems silly to me because, while having some truth to it, your views ignore many things of importance. Here are my pros and cons on this matter.
  • snip
Loren Eiseley unveils the whole sordid story in Darwin and the Mysterious Mr. X. The only shortcoming of the book is that Eiseley acts as an apologist for Darwin and tries to explain how Darwin forgot where he learned about NS.
  • snip
Yet Darwin deserves immense credit for amassing scientific evidence, the best available in his day, to support his theories. Darwin’s errors, in my estimation, involved his over-extension of evolution theory to include man’s existence as totally a product of evolution. Also, Darwin interpreted all of nature, as well as man himself, through a materialist perspective.

Despite the errors of Darwin’s philosophical materialism, there is no justification for claiming that everything Darwin said is of no scientific value. In fact, Darwin has contributed immensely to our understanding of how nature works. That is almost a quote from Cardinal Schonborn.

Other than the justified criticism of Darwinian materialism and its profoundly adverse effects on culture, I can see no justification whatsoever for a total discounting of Darwinian science. Sure it has flaws, but evolution theory is revised as new evidence and new understanding of evidence is acquired.

I see no merit in debunking Darwinian science. It will go nowhere. Challenging Darwinian ideology is a different matter. However, you ID folks lump everything together, science an ideology, and as a consequence put forth arguments that only appear confused to me. (No disrespect intended. I’m just being honest about my reaction.)

The ID tact hasn’t work, and I don’t see how it can work, because it is ill-advised. You really need to focus on Darwinian ideology and show its philosophical shortcomings. But you can’t do that as of yet because you can’t seem to distinguish the good science from the ideology.

Hence, you will be going round in circles like this until the end of time (That’s my unofficial prophecy). As far as ideology is valuated, ID theory is closer to the truth than is Darwinian ideology. However, ID theory, as I have frequently stated, is philosophically confused. Only the sound philosophical position of classical philosophy, the philosophia perennis, can disprove Darwinian ideology. Other than that, any continued opposition to evolution on a scientific level is fruitless.

I have noted that you ID supporters on CAF have continually refused to answer my question as to why Cardinal Schonborn disassociates himself from ID theory, and why do not Thomists, in general, support ID theory. Thomists clearly support the obvious realityof design, with a philosophical analysis, but like Dubay, they do not align themselves with creation science or ID-ology and how it explains design in nature. Still, Dubay is perceptive to certain inadequacies of current Darwinian science, which I can’t discuss here.

Oftentimes, when I think about the status if ID theorists critique of evolution science, what comes to mind is a line from the movie “Gladiator”: “A people should know when they are defeated.” The only way for ID theorists to succeed it to challenge Darwinian ideology on genuine philosophical grounds, which so far appears to be unfamiliar territory for ID theorists.

An interesting article for your consideration: Thomas Aquinas vs. The Intelligent Designers: What is God’s Finger Doing in My Pre-Biotic Soup?

Well, that’s the end of my ramble…for now. :rolleyes:

Peace in Christ.
Thank you for your reply. First, I can see no current applicable scientific value for the theory of evolution. New drug discovery is still largely a trial and error process as is much other science.

Second, in all honesty, why is anything that Cardinal Schonborn says about evolution relevant? Is it going to change anything about the basic theory? I don’t see how. The same with Pope Benedict. All I see here are references to various Popes and other religious as one more reason to ‘just say to evolution,’ but, and this is important, the same religious figures are discounted whenever they say something against the theory. Where’s the honesty? Am I to believe that these posters are only here to support science?

Cardinal Schonborn does support the idea of actual design in nature but has wisely distanced himself from the political version of ID.

firstthings.com/article/2007/01/the-designs-of-science–4

He tells us that there is, in fact, actual design but he avoids entangling himself in a war of power politics between two camps that may, in some cases, fight dirty. I believe as Cardinal Schonborn, that there is actual design in nature. I also believe that life is an "intelligent project’ as stated by Pope Benedict.

Finally, is it just a coincidence that American public schools, which once used the Bible as a text, had God hustled out of them, followed by an increasing emphasis on atheistic evolution? I don’t think so.

On the science side. Intelligent Design is a far better alternative to an incomplete, and not scientifically proven theory. People spend a lot of time here mixing science with the Bible. I can only conclude that for those people, all of that time and effort must translate into a tangible benefit for someone - my vote goes to anti-theists. The same people who post here claiming that mindless chemicals gave rise to men with minds. Or their faith statement that any day now, a bunch of men will create life from dead chemicals.

Peace,
Ed
 
flagellum.

Listening to talk radio. an old(er) Laura Ingraham program.

And the guest [will get his name later] mentioned how the “development” of the flagellum of the paramecium suggests that intelligent design is at work, rather than evolution.

Just wanted to write note here for future reference.

biologos.org/

I think it was Dr. Collins who was on the radio.
I am just about to check out that website. Meanwhile, I was wondering whether you think intelligent design and evolution are necessarily exclusive. Granted there is no one theory of evolution. Darwin himself had five theories. And there are non-Darwinian theories of evolution. Intelligent design explanations and theories vary also. In regard to intelligent design as explained by ID theorist Michael Denton, he accepts evolution at the species level, i.e. speciation. Do you think one can recognize intelligent design in nature, whiling consistently maintaining a theory of evolution?

What say you? Or anybody, else?
 
Thank you for your reply. First, I can see no current applicable scientific value for the theory of evolution. New drug discovery is still largely a trial and error process as is much other science.

Second, in all honesty, why is anything that Cardinal Schonborn says about evolution relevant? Is it going to change anything about the basic theory? I don’t see how. The same with Pope Benedict. All I see here are references to various Popes and other religious as one more reason to ‘just say to evolution,’ but, and this is important, the same religious figures are discounted whenever they say something against the theory. Where’s the honesty? Am I to believe that these posters are only here to support science?

Cardinal Schonborn does support the idea of actual design in nature but has wisely distanced himself from the political version of ID.

firstthings.com/article/2007/01/the-designs-of-science–4
What is the political version of ID theory? And what does that mean? Is there a non-political version?

Furthermore, Cardinal Schonborn must be very relevant to the issue because ID supporters often reference his NYT article as support for ID theory. However, you have mis-characterized Cardinal Schonborn’s thinking on this subject. He has explained that his discussion about intelligent design in the NYT article was a philosophical discussion from the viewpoint of classical philosophy but readers clearly mistook him for speaking from an ID perspective. Some of those readers who have misrepresented Cardinal Schonborn include columnists at First Things, where Schonborn also published an articles explaining their misrepresentations of his NYT article. He was suprised to see misrepresentations of his NYT discussion even at First Things.

To claim that Cardinal Schonborn distancing himself from ID theory was “politically motivated” is without evidence, and it fails to take into account Cardinal Schonborn’s own explanation of his views.
He tells us that there is, in fact, actual design but he avoids entangling himself in a war of power politics between two camps that may, in some cases, fight dirty. I believe as Cardinal Schonborn, that there is actual design in nature. I also believe that life is an "intelligent project’ as stated by Pope Benedict.
As stated above, there is no evidence for your explanation, and you disregarded the quotes I provided earlier in this thread from Cardinal Schonborn that show your take on the situation is not based in facts.
Finally, is it just a coincidence that American public schools, which once used the Bible as a text, had God hustled out of them, followed by an increasing emphasis on atheistic evolution? I don’t think so.
It’s not a coincidence, but are you just arguing against atheistic evolution and its effects on culture, while ignoring the fact that evolution theory in itself is not theistic or atheistic?
On the science side. Intelligent Design is a far better alternative to an incomplete, and not scientifically proven theory.
I have to disagree with that. While I generally argue for and against various aspects of evolution on a philosophical level, and not on a scientific level, I just can’t see how ID theory can pose as a scientific substitute for sound evolution theory.

The scientific evidence for common descent in general is overwhelming. I did mention that Darwin had 5 theories of evolution, and each aspect or theory may not have equal scientific merit for all concerned. Denton himself says the evidence for the fact of speciation is irrefutable. So, how do you treat what in evolution theory is overwhelmingly true? Do you just ignore it? In fact, this is exactly what you are doing. You are ignoring what is true because there exists materialist versions of evolution in the neo-Darwinian arena. It’s easier to avoid making distinctions and just lump everything together and then slap a label on it.

Do you take the position that some organisms have evolved while others are designed?
People spend a lot of time here mixing science with the Bible. I can only conclude that for those people, all of that time and effort must translate into a tangible benefit for someone - my vote goes to anti-theists. The same people who post here claiming that mindless chemicals gave rise to men with minds. Or their faith statement that any day now, a bunch of men will create life from dead chemicals.
Bible and science:

Do you remember the post I made with an extended quote from St. Augustine in regard to the Bible and science. St. Augustine warned against using the Bible to argue against what scientist know is the case. He said it discredits both the Bible and the Christians making arguments against science.

As far as mindless matter giving rise to the rational mind, that is of course an absurdity on all levels. That view represents the materialists’ (and Darwin’s) metaphysical materialism. Classical philosophy gives the right answers to that ontological impossibility.
 
flagellum.

Listening to talk radio. an old(er) Laura Ingraham program.

And the guest [will get his name later] mentioned how the “development” of the flagellum of the paramecium suggests that intelligent design is at work, rather than evolution.

Just wanted to write note here for future reference.

biologos.org/

I think it was Dr. Collins who was on the radio.
Sorry fultonfish, but I must give the learned Dr. Collins two thumbs down. Here is why…

I barely began reading BioLogos Foundation articles, when I encountered a number of positions that are problematic.

1. BioLogos is most similar to theistic evolution. The problem here is that the BioLogos’ version of theistic evolution is theologically and philosophically untenable. BioLogos allows for, and seems to prefer the view that says evolution can account for the human soul. This is a metaphysically impossible scenario in which non-rational matter gives rise to rational consciousness, albeit under the influence of God on the evolutionary process.

Evolution can only account for the human body and its pre-history in evolutionary processes. I must counter BioLogos and say that evolution cannot produce the rational soul; the human intellectual soul must be created directly.

These are the erroneous views in question which I quoted from the BioLogos site:

“Most theologians argue that the Image of God is not reflected as a physical image, but rather as characteristics of the mind and soul. From the BioLogos perspective, God planned for humans to evolve to the point of attaining these characteristics.”

“We also cannot know whether God directly intervened in the evolutionary process at this point, or whether the unfolding evolutionary process produced the human soul.”

2. BioLogos accepts the Copenhagen philosophy of quantum mechanics. BioLogos finds in the uncertainty principle at the quantum level, a freedom of the universe from absolute determinism.

Indeterminacy in a nutshell says that what cannot be measured exactly does not occur exactly. While I realize Einstein and company presented an inadequate refutation of indeterminacy; and then there are the supporting Bell experiments. However, indeterminacy as explained by Heisenberg, et al is a metaphysical impossibility. The Copenhagen error was to take an operational principle and make it the basis for an epistemic principle.

Furthermore, if we posit an ontological indeterminacy at the quantum level, it has serious consequences at the macro level for the reliability of human knowledge. This was realized at the time, as the indeterminacy principle, when followed to its logical consequence, implies the impossibility of scientific knowledge, or any knowledge.

The upshot here is that the BioLogos arguments for freedom of the universe on the physical level is based on a fallacy, the Copenhagen indeterminacy fallacy. I know most physicists will disagree with me, but I side with Einstein, and sound metaphysical principles.

3. The BioLogos approach to Biblical exegesis is critical of fundamentalism, while at the same time preferring fundamentalist approaches to certain texts in Genesis. The main problem here is that BioLogos rejects the view that all men are descendants of Adam, or a first man. (I maintain that all human beings are descended from a single pair despite what is being implied by recent scientific interpretations in genetics.)

In regard to Biblical interpretation BioLogos puts forth this very strange view:

“Scriptural evidence supports the view that other humans existed during the time that God’s image was attained. Genesis makes this apparent when the writer makes reference to Cain’s fear of other people, when God cursed him.”

According to BioLogos, some humans were not created in the image of God. Even further, BioLogos avoids the word “created” and substitutes “attained”: “that God’s image was attained.”

Conclusion. These are just a few of the theologically and philosophically unsound views espoused by BioLogos. I note these errors from having read only three pages on the website. Who knows what else I might find when I read further.
 
There are many paths to God.

Collins started out as an atheist.

Now he is up to part Baptist/ part Presbtyerian. [from memory from his part-light-hearted friendly discussion with Laura Ingraham who also made a longish journey and has ended up as a devout Catholic]

Part of the “issue”/discussion depends on precisely what one means by “evolution” versus, for example, selective breeding. There is that “silly” discussion of the shapes of bird beaks, which is selective breeding based on the need to extract different kinds of seeds and insects, etc.

On the other hand, we can ask how did the flagellum evolve.

Frankly, evolution is of limited interest to me personally. God is INFINITE and I am an amoeba, by comparison.

So, I grant to God the right to choose any development path He chooses for mankind.

I also have never seen a UFO, so I have NO IDEA if there is intelligent life on other planets.

Collins raises the issue [also raised by others] that the planet Earth is unique in the combination of temperature, atmosphere, and other biological and geological features. distance to the sun, orbital parameters, planetary rotation and cyclical aspects, lunar influences that allow for agriculture, the magnetosphere and relationship to solar wind and cosmic rays that are conducive to life and it is entirely possible that there are no other planets in the entire Universe that are so unique.

It is entirely possible that God created the entire Universe to give mankind some things to contemplate and wonder about.

How was our Moon formed? Why is it one of the largest moons relative to the size of the planet around which it orbits?

[We think we now know the answer to that.]

But what about the braided rings of Saturn?

Why, when we take pictures of the universe can we not account for about 80% of the calculated mass of the universe?

How many dimensions are there? 11? or more than eleven?

What is gravity?

Why are mass and humans about 99.999999% empty space. How can an atom be empty space and in combination still give us all the elements of the periodic table? If there are other intelligent species “out there”, are they like us? Or are they something totally different?

Why did humans come out the way they did?

If there are other intelligent species out there, do they have free will? Do they have original sin?

Did the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity go to them and save them and open the gates of Heaven to them?

Does the Earth flip its magnetic field every 25000 years? When that happens, is all life and every trace of life wiped out? If so, how then do we account for the fossilized remains of animals and people, but no trace of construction remain; no buildings, no computers, no irrigation structures, no writings, etc.

The SOUL. Another big area.

Einstein. There is a whole school that disagrees with Einstein. Beckmann and after his death, others. Galilean Electrodynamics. sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Petr_Beckmann

home.comcast.net/~adring/

Lots of mysteries that just sharpen the debate about evolution.

Since there IS a debate about evolution, all these other questions are valid adjuncts to the debate.
 
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