Myth of the Pre-Tribulational Rapture

[Ozzie]

Mickey:

Ozzie, is your real name Rev. Tim LaHaye?

I have never read his “Left Behind” series. The problem is most Catholics I’ve talked to have only his fictional books as their reference. And then they argue as if they’ve studied the issues from a Biblical view point. Hey guys, those books are a novel. You need to study God’s written Word on the subject.

 

[Ozzie]

Maccabees:

Their is no evidence that this existed before the 17th century period. IF justin is the best you could do your pretty sorry as I plainly explained what his beliefs are Which is closer to catholcism than dispensationlist.

Are you under the false impression that everybody before the 17th century was infallible? I don’t try to prove the Premillennial view by Justin. I prove it BY God’s written Word. Same with the Pretrib. Rapture view. Would it matter if the whole world laughed? Nope!

 

[Maccabees]

Ozzie:

Justin, based on his writing, was Premillenial. I never said he was Dispensational/Premillennial. But the Church was definitely predominately Premillennial. That is, the expectancy of an earthly Kingdom with Christ ruling over Israel and the nations for 1000 years. That’s what "Millennium" means, my friend. But after the 4th century it followed Augustine and adoped a “spiritualized” view of the Millennium. But the BIBLE, God’s written Word, God’s prophets, NEVER DO. They NEVER spiritualize the Davidic/Messianic Kingdom. It is described by them as spiritual, literal, earthly and political (it is future). It is one of the main reasons Christ is coming back (Zech. 14).

Do you really think I’m going to abandon the Word of God just to follow the crowd? :nope:

REV 20:6 “Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.”

Sorry, my deceived friend, but that’s a literal 1000 years.

You can’t argue Pretibulational truth until you first establish Premillennial truth. Truth begets truth, error begets error.

WEll that is according to your interpretation of scritpure that’s it.
You can’t run away from the fact that no one subscirbed to your eschatology till the 17th century.

IF Justin is the arbriter of truth for you why do you believe in the rapture? He didn’t. Justin did not see the state of Israel being the focus of eschalogical fulfillment he saw the church the New Israel bringing in the fullfillment of the end of time. He also saw the millinium bringing an end to time you don’t you see another dispenation where Jesus has againt to do battle with Satan finall brining in the final dispenation of a new heaven and a new earth. Your still makingit out like he agrees with you on many things he agrees with you on 1 thing Your agruement is weak.
The problem with postmillennialism is that Scripture does not depict the world as experiencing a
period of complete (or relatively complete) Christianization before the Second Coming. There are numerous passages that speak of the age between the First and Second Comings as a time of great sorrow and strife for Christians. One revealing passage is the parable of the wheat and the weeds (Matt. 13:24–30, 36–43). In this parable, Christ declares that the righteous and the wicked will both be planted and grow alongside each other in God’s field (“the field is the world,” Matt. 13:38) until the end of the world, when they will be separated, judged, and either be thrown into the fire of hell or inherit God’s kingdom (Matt. 13:41–43). There is no biblical evidence that the world will eventually become totally (or even almost totally) Christian, but rather that there will always be a parallel development of the righteous and the wicked until the final judgment.

Historically Origen was the person who gave us amillnium thought not Augustine he happened to write a book based on Origen’s theories called the CIty of God which put an end to a discussion.
This is what he proposed.
Amillennialists point out that the thrones of the saints who reign with Christ during the millennium appear to be set in heaven (Rev. 20:4; cf. 4:4, 11:16) and that the text nowhere states that Christ is on earth during this reign with the saints.

They explain that, although the world will never be fully Christianized until the Second Coming, the millennium does have effects on earth in that Satan is bound in such a way that he cannot deceive the nations by hindering the preaching of the gospel (Rev. 20:3). They point out that Jesus spoke of the necessity of “binding the strong man” (Satan) in order to plunder his house by rescuing people from his grip (Matt. 12:29). When the disciples returned from a tour of preaching the gospel, rejoicing at how demons were subject to them, Jesus declared, “I saw Satan fall like lightning” (Luke 10:18). Thus for the gospel to move forward at all in the world, it is necessary for Satan to be bound in one sense, even if he may still be active in attacking individuals (1 Pet. 5:8).

The millennium is a golden age not when compared to the glories of the age to come, but in comparison to all prior ages of human history, in which the world was swallowed in pagan darkness. Today, a third of the human race is Christian and even more than that have repudiated pagan idols and embraced the worship of the God of Abraham.

In addition you keep making the mistake of taking another person’s beleifs and making it your own out of desperation for the last time Justin Was first cenutyr chialist not PREMILL and he was posttrbib not pretrib.
Your an embarassment to exegesis the way you misrepresent the fathers and scipture.

 

[Ozzie]

MaggieOH:

Well someone is lying to you, because Jesus spoke about the tribulations that the early Christians would face. Why should we be any different than those early Christians who gave up their lives because they believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God?

I never said He prohibits Christians from experiencing various trials and tribulations in this world. True believers are not “of” the world, but we are certainly “in” the world. The same world that crucified Him. The same world that Christ warned that if they hated Him, they would hate them. But the “wrath” to come is a whole different story.

Your words demonstrate why I say that the theology of the Rapture is based upon selfishness and has nothing to do with Christ.

These are silly words, indeed. The true Church is the Body of Christ, it would be masochistic for anyone to inflict wrath upon his own body. I think you utterly fail to understand Christ’s love for His Church.

Maggie

 

[Ozzie]

Maccabees:

The problem with postmillennialism is that Scripture does not depict the world as experiencing a period of complete (or relatively complete) Christianization before the Second Coming. There are numerous passages that speak of the age between the First and Second Comings as a time of great sorrow and strife for Christians. One revealing passage is the parable of the wheat and the weeds (Matt. 13:24–30, 36–43). In this parable, Christ declares that the righteous and the wicked will both be planted and grow alongside each other in God’s field (“the field is the world,” Matt. 13:38) until the end of the world, when they will be separated, judged, and either be thrown into the fire of hell or inherit God’s kingdom (Matt. 13:41–43). There is no biblical evidence that the world will eventually become totally (or even almost totally) Christian, but rather that there will always be a parallel development of the righteous and the wicked until the final judgment.

From where did you ever get the idea I am Postmillennial??? Back up, my friend, you’re shooting from the hip.

No, Justin was merely an example, he’s not the arbiter of truth. The written Word of God is the arbiter of ALL truth. And based on His immutable written Word the true Church is not destined for the wrath to come. And at Christ’s 2nd Advent He will set up His literal, political, Messianic/Davidic Kingdom and rule over Israel and the nations for a literal 1000 years. Turn you back on this written truth, but that won’t change His Word (Jer. 1:12).

 

[dennisknapp]

From where did you ever get the idea I am Postmillennial??? Back up, my friend, you’re shooting from the hip.

No, Justin was merely an example, he’s not the arbiter of truth. The written Word of God is the arbiter of ALL truth. And based on His immutable written Word the true Church is not destined for the wrath to come. And at Christ’s 2nd Advent He will set up His literal, political, Messianic/Davidic Kingdom and rule over Israel and the nations for a literal 1000 years. Turn you back on this written truth, but that won’t change His Word (Jer. 1:12).

Please join me at

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=36091

Peace

 

[Maccabees]

Post, Pre same side of the same coin error.

Like postmillennialists, premillennialists believe that the thousand years is an earthly golden age during which the world will be thoroughly Christianized. Unlike postmillennialists, they believe that it will occur after the Second Coming rather than before, so that Christ reigns physically on earth during the millennium. They believe that the Final Judgment will occur only after the millennium is over (which many interpret to be an exactly one thousand year period).
The problem with all of the positions (except the historic, post-tribulational view, which was accepted by all Christians, including non-premillennialists) is that they split the Second Coming into different events. In the case of the pre-trib view, Christ is thought to have three comings—one when he was born in Bethlehem, one when he returns for the rapture at the tribulation’s beginning, and one at tribulation’s end, when he establishes the millennium. This three-comings view is foreign to Scripture.

Problems with the pre-tribulational view are highlighted by Baptist (and premillennial) theologian Dale Moody, who wrote: “Belief in a pre-tribulational rapture . . . contradicts all three chapters in the New Testament that mention the tribulation and the rapture together (Mark 13:24–27; Matt. 24:26–31; 2 Thess. 2:1–12). . . . The theory is so biblically bankrupt that the usual defense is made using three passages that do not even mention a tribulation (John 14:3; 1 Thess. 4:17; 1 Cor. 15:52). These are important passages, but they have not had one word to say about a pre-tribulational rapture. The score is 3 to 0, three passages for a post-tribulational rapture and three that say nothing on the subject.
. . . Pre-tribulationism is biblically bankrupt and does not know it” (The Word of Truth, 556–7).

I should trust the word of God as interperted by John Darby? Look the majority of historical protestant believe in Sola Scirptura yet the protestants prior to Darby for the most part are not Premill or pretrib. WHy whould I beleive your interpretation of scirpture which is one of thousands?
Your cherry picking verses out of context and putting your faith in an invented interpretation of the latter day protestnatism. Clavin and Luther and Wesly know nothing of your invented doctrine.
Not to mention the people that canonized Revelation in the NT canon did not think it was to be interpreted literally and did not beleive the book in context referred to a literal millinium.
But hey I am talking to a guys whose exegesis is so bankrupt you think God literally created things in 6 24 hour days which is amazingly fundie.

 

[Benadam]

Ozzie:

Word of God is the arbiter of ALL truth. And based on His immutable written Word the true Church is not destined for the wrath to come.(Jer. 1:12).

Hi Ozzie,

By calling the Holy Scriptures ans ‘arbiter’ you are giving it a power that a testimony does not have. That is a power that requires a living soul to exercise. A living soul must know what it testifies to before the role of arbiter can be assumed. The testament is ‘a’ Word of God but not as much ‘the’ Word of God you make it to be to support the doctrins you want to believe.

The wrath of God is suffered by Christians in the way Christ suffered the Father’s wrath in our place. Through people who live and project the wrath of God’s judgement on others and cause others to suffer in their stead.

To them Jesus said " why do you persecute me?"
The persecuted are the primary expression of Word of God on earth and the words that faithfully communicate them are their testimony.

 

[Maccabees]

Ozzie:

No, Justin was merely an example, he’s not the arbiter of truth. The written Word of God is the arbiter of ALL truth. And based on His immutable written Word the true Church is not destined for the wrath to come. And at Christ’s 2nd Advent He will set up His literal, political, Messianic/Davidic Kingdom and rule over Israel and the nations for a literal 1000 years. Turn you back on this written truth, but that won’t change His Word (Jer. 1:12).

John 16
33"These things I have spoken to you, so that (A)in Me you may have peace (**(“John 16:33; NASB - These things I have spoken to you so - Bible Gateway”))In the world you have tribulation, but (C)take courage; (D)I have overcome the world."

Yes we don’t suffer the wrath of God but doesn’t mean we don’t suffer from man, the world, the anti-christ, the man of perdition, the Bible gives us not escape clause from the wrath of men and Satan. We don’t suffer the wrath of God which is eternal damnation. We will suffer tribulation Jesus makes this clear.
Are you better than the apostles and the early chriistians which suffered the wrath of men and the anti-christ (Nero)?

 

[Maccabees]

Ozzie:

The written Word of God is the arbiter of ALL truth.

That’s a tradition of man. Show me where in the Bible does the Bible says it is the arbriter of all truth.
You kow what holds the truth? The Church!
1 Timohty
15but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

 

[MaggieOH]

Mainstream Protestantism does not go along with this Dispensationalist Rapture claptrap. There is another view that is prevalent, and it is one that is usually considered to be Preterist, or at least partially amillenial preterist.

The Book of Revelation, not Revelations, was written to reveal one thing alone - Jesus Christ.

“I AM the Alpha and the Omega”, says the Lord God, who is, who was and who is to come, the ALMIGHTY." (Rev 1:8)

This Book of Revelation, like parts of the Book of Isaiah, and of Daniel, is a book of Comfort to those souls who are suffering torment and torture at the hands of the pagans. The audience that read this manuscript at the time of John the Apostle understood the codewords that are to be found within its pages. It was deliberately written in the same Apocalyptic style as the Book of Daniel. To do otherwise would have meant a betrayal of the Christians.

This is why one must understand the historical period in which this manuscript was written in order to discover some of the themes within it. A teacher of mine once said that St. John’s writings are like a pop-up book because there are layers of meaning. We need to dig deep to reveal all of the layers of this book so that we too can understand the message. John was addressing his audience of his own time, yet that does not mean that there is not a hidden message for our own time.

At the same time we need to understand the Scriptural meaning of End Times. Some of the prophecies from the OT such as that of Daniel are inappropriately applied in this Dispensationalist Rapture theology. The prophet Daniel was prophesying an End Time, which was the passing from the OLD TESTAMENT and into the NEW TESTAMENT. In other words his prophesy was the foretelling of the coming of the Messiah.

Coming to grips with the Book of Revelation is really quite difficult and it is even harder when the Scripture is muddied by talk of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture. This is a doctrine of man. It came from a man by the name of Darby and it was spread in the USA and then to the rest of the world via the Plymouth Brethren. It does not represent anything that is written by the Early Church Fathers. It is nothing more than a distortion of the Scripture.

I have before me, Volume 2 of a study guide written by the Presbyterian theologian William Barclay. Although the guide is not perfect from the Catholic POV, it is very good because of the historical information that is provided by William Barclay. It is in a guide of this nature that one learns to feel more comfortable with the messages from the Book of Revelation.

(to be continued)

 

[MaggieOH]

Maccabees:

John 16
33"These things I have spoken to you, so that (A)in Me you may have peace (**(“John 16:33; NASB - These things I have spoken to you so - Bible Gateway”))In the world you have tribulation, but (C)take courage; (D)I have overcome the world."

Yes we don’t suffer the wrath of God but doesn’t mean we don’t suffer from man, the world, the anti-christ, the man of perdition, the Bible gives us not escape clause from the wrath of men and Satan. We don’t suffer the wrath of God which is eternal damnation. We will suffer tribulation Jesus makes this clear.
Are you better than the apostles and the early chriistians which suffered the wrath of men and the anti-christ (Nero)?

Yes, good points. Yes, we will suffer tribulation. The warning is there in the Scripture.

Maggie

 

[MaggieOH]

Maccabees:

That’s a tradition of man. Show me where in the Bible does the Bible says it is the arbriter of all truth.
You kow what holds the truth? The Church!
1 Timohty
15but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Mac,

help us to keep Ozzie on track. If he makes a statement like that point him in the direction of starting a new thread. We do not want him using diversionary tactics.

 

[MaggieOH]

From where did you ever get the idea I am Postmillennial??? Back up, my friend, you’re shooting from the hip.

No, Justin was merely an example, he’s not the arbiter of truth. The written Word of God is the arbiter of ALL truth. And based on His immutable written Word the true Church is not destined for the wrath to come. And at Christ’s 2nd Advent He will set up His literal, political, Messianic/Davidic Kingdom and rule over Israel and the nations for a literal 1000 years. Turn you back on this written truth, but that won’t change His Word (Jer. 1:12).

First you misrepresent Justin Martyr and then you misrepresent the Scriputre.

There will not be a literal 1000 years reign of Christ. The Messiah has already been into the world, and He has given us something that keeps Him in the world. It is something that is celebrated every hour of every day of the week, somewhere in the world - the EUCHARIST. It is the Parousia. Every time we have a Catholic Mass, the Holy Spirit reveals the Presence of Christ in our midst.

Maggie

 

[MaggieOH]

Maccabees:

Post, Pre same side of the same coin error.

Like postmillennialists, premillennialists believe that the thousand years is an earthly golden age during which the world will be thoroughly Christianized. Unlike postmillennialists, they believe that it will occur after the Second Coming rather than before, so that Christ reigns physically on earth during the millennium. They believe that the Final Judgment will occur only after the millennium is over (which many interpret to be an exactly one thousand year period).
The problem with all of the positions (except the historic, post-tribulational view, which was accepted by all Christians, including non-premillennialists) is that they split the Second Coming into different events. In the case of the pre-trib view, Christ is thought to have three comings—one when he was born in Bethlehem, one when he returns for the rapture at the tribulation’s beginning, and one at tribulation’s end, when he establishes the millennium. This three-comings view is foreign to Scripture.

Problems with the pre-tribulational view are highlighted by Baptist (and premillennial) theologian Dale Moody, who wrote: “Belief in a pre-tribulational rapture . . . contradicts all three chapters in the New Testament that mention the tribulation and the rapture together (Mark 13:24–27; Matt. 24:26–31; 2 Thess. 2:1–12). . . . The theory is so biblically bankrupt that the usual defense is made using three passages that do not even mention a tribulation (John 14:3; 1 Thess. 4:17; 1 Cor. 15:52). These are important passages, but they have not had one word to say about a pre-tribulational rapture. The score is 3 to 0, three passages for a post-tribulational rapture and three that say nothing on the subject.
. . . Pre-tribulationism is biblically bankrupt and does not know it” (The Word of Truth, 556–7).

I should trust the word of God as interperted by John Darby? Look the majority of historical protestant believe in Sola Scirptura yet the protestants prior to Darby for the most part are not Premill or pretrib. WHy whould I beleive your interpretation of scirpture which is one of thousands?
Your cherry picking verses out of context and putting your faith in an invented interpretation of the latter day protestnatism. Clavin and Luther and Wesly know nothing of your invented doctrine.
Not to mention the people that canonized Revelation in the NT canon did not think it was to be interpreted literally and did not beleive the book in context referred to a literal millinium.
But hey I am talking to a guys whose exegesis is so bankrupt you think God literally created things in 6 24 hour days which is amazingly fundie.

:angel1:

 

[Benadam]

MaggieOH:

Mainstream Protestantism does not go along with this Dispensationalist Rapture claptrap. There is another view that is prevalent, and it is one that is usually considered to be Preterist, or at least partially amillenial preterist.

The Book of Revelation, not Revelations, was written to reveal one thing alone - Jesus Christ.

“I AM the Alpha and the Omega”, says the Lord God, who is, who was and who is to come, the ALMIGHTY." (Rev 1:8)

This Book of Revelation, like parts of the Book of Isaiah, and of Daniel, is a book of Comfort to those souls who are suffering torment and torture at the hands of the pagans. The audience that read this manuscript at the time of John the Apostle understood the codewords that are to be found within its pages. It was deliberately written in the same Apocalyptic style as the Book of Daniel. To do otherwise would have meant a betrayal of the Christians.

This is why one must understand the historical period in which this manuscript was written in order to discover some of the themes within it. A teacher of mine once said that St. John’s writings are like a pop-up book because there are layers of meaning. We need to dig deep to reveal all of the layers of this book so that we too can understand the message. John was addressing his audience of his own time, yet that does not mean that there is not a hidden message for our own time.

At the same time we need to understand the Scriptural meaning of End Times. Some of the prophecies from the OT such as that of Daniel are inappropriately applied in this Dispensationalist Rapture theology. The prophet Daniel was prophesying an End Time, which was the passing from the OLD TESTAMENT and into the NEW TESTAMENT. In other words his prophesy was the foretelling of the coming of the Messiah.

Coming to grips with the Book of Revelation is really quite difficult and it is even harder when the Scripture is muddied by talk of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture. This is a doctrine of man. It came from a man by the name of Darby and it was spread in the USA and then to the rest of the world via the Plymouth Brethren. It does not represent anything that is written by the Early Church Fathers. It is nothing more than a distortion of the Scripture.

I have before me, Volume 2 of a study guide written by the Presbyterian theologian William Barclay. Although the guide is not perfect from the Catholic POV, it is very good because of the historical information that is provided by William Barclay. It is in a guide of this nature that one learns to feel more comfortable with the messages from the Book of Revelation.

(to be continued)

This is exactly how it is properly looked at. The language that figures the realities John used were well known by his listeners. It wasn’t cryptic in it’s meaning to them because it’s primary purpose was for them. It’s understood in the measure it’s looked at properly and then known in the measure required. Happy the man who reads these words I think it says in there.

Also it’s a vision of ‘heaven’. From earth the view doesn’t reveal what has been, what is and what is yet to come. Because it say’s Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. I agree it is about Christ from His angel that St John even responded to thinking the angel was Christ.

 

[MaggieOH]

Ozzie:

I never said He prohibits Christians from experiencing various trials and tribulations in this world. True believers are not “of” the world, but we are certainly “in” the world. The same world that crucified Him. The same world that Christ warned that if they hated Him, they would hate them. But the “wrath” to come is a whole different story.These are silly words, indeed. The true Church is the Body of Christ, it would be masochistic for anyone to inflict wrath upon his own body. I think you utterly fail to understand Christ’s love for His Church.

Maggie

Jesus said: “To you my friends, I say : Do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. I will tell you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed has the power to cast into hell…When they take you before the synagogues and magistrates and authorities, do not worry about how to defend yourselves or what to say, because when the time comes, the Holy Spirit will teach you what you must say.” (Lk 12:10-12)

“So, when you see the disastrous abomination of which the prophet Daniel spoke, set up in the Holy Place (let the reader understand) then those in Judea must escape to the mountains… Pray that you will not have to escape in winter or on a sabbath. For then there will be a great distress such as until now, since the world began, there never has been, nor ever will be again.” (Matt 24:15-25)

“But as for that day and hour, nobody knows it, neither the angels of heaven, nor the Son, no one but the Father only” (Matt 24:36)

The prophecy of Jesus that is written in the Gospel of Matthew is a reference to an historical event in Jerusalem - the sacking of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple by the pagan Romans in 70 A.D.

Maggie

 

[MaggieOH]

(cont)

Since my volume 1 of Barclay’s study guide has legs and has walked, I am relying on the relevant information in the second volume to provide at least some of the historical background of the Book of Revelation:

"And one of the elders said to me: “Do you know who these are who are clothed in white robes and where they have come from?” I said to him: “Sir, you know,” He said to me “These are they who are coming out of the great tribulation and who have washed their robes, and have made them white through the power of the blood of the Lamb.” (Rev 7: 13,14)

Barclay points out that the seer is convinced that he and his people are standing at the end time of history and that the end time is to be terrible beyond all imagining. Therefore “The whole point of his vision is that beyond that terrible time glory will follow.” (Barclay study guide vol 2, p29)

The book of Revelation was written at a time when the Church was enduring a terrible persecution at the hands of the pagan Roman emperor. They were going through a tribulation. John was telling them, that by going through this tribulation they will be glorified by God. It is a promise, not just to the early Christians, but to all Christians throughout time, who are or have faced fierce persecution.

(to be continued)

 

[Ozzie]

dennisknapp:

Please join me at

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=36091

Peace

Why? And interrupt you guys telling each other how right you are?

 

[Ozzie]

“So, when you see the disastrous abomination of which the prophet Daniel spoke, set up in the Holy Place (let the reader understand) then those in Judea must escape to the mountains… Pray that you will not have to escape in winter or on a sabbath. For then there will be a great distress such as until now, since the world began, there never has been, nor ever will be again.” (Matt 24:15-25) The prophecy of Jesus that is written in the Gospel of Matthew is a reference to an historical event in Jerusalem - the sacking of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple by the pagan Romans in 70 A.D.

Based on the context, Maggie, it’s literally impossible to apply this to 70 A.D. IN CONTEXT Jesus is answering the Disciple’s question concerning His coming again and the “end of the age” (vs. 3): “False Messiahs;” “wars and rumors of wars;” “nation rise up against nation;” “kingdom against kingdom;” “famines and earthquakes;” which are merely “birth pangs” (vss. 4-8). Jesus then states:

"…for then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall (vs. 21].

Now verse 29ff puts this whole scene into its proper context and proves it CANNOT be referring to 70 A.D.

MAT 24:29-31 *"**But immediately **after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken, *and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other."

Christ (the “Son of Man”) did not appear in the sky in 70 A.D., nor did He return to this earth with power and great glory. Nor did not send forth His angels and gather together His elect.

Amillennialists (full and partial Preterists) desperately try to fit this whole prophetic scene into the events that took place in 70 A.D., but such an effort, when honestly examined within the whole context, is without merit and totally bankrupt.

Matthew continues in chapter 25:
MAT 25:31 **"***But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, THEN He will sit on His glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; *and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."

Not until Jesus returns to this earth will he sit on HIS glorious throne (see Rev. 3:21). Now in Heaven He shares His Father’s throne and operates as the true believer’s High Priest and Advocate before the father (Heb. 1:3; 7:25; 1 Jn. 2:1). He is not now reigning as “King” in Heaven. Now take note: Jesus does not return to Rome, but to Jerusalem. It is there that He ascends the Davidic throne, and from there He sets up the promised, literal, political, Messianic, Davidic Kingdom, which the ancient Jewish prophets predicted hundreds of years ago. NONE of them spiritualize this Kingdom, and obviously Jesus does not either.

Sorry Maggie, try as you will, you cannot change what God has written (Jer. 1:12). It is true Matt. 24 and 25 must take place in Jerusalem, and a Temple must be built there. But alas, the Jews are back in their ancient homeland, speaking their ancient language, in 1967 they took control of the old city of Jerusalem, and the desire and anticipation of rebuilding the Temple on the ancient Temple Mount lives amongst them. Christ is coming back to set up His literal, Millennial Kingdom, and He will bring with Him the true Church He Raptured years before His 2nd Advent.