Name 3 reasons you are not Catholic (yet).

[guanophore]

Patience is a virtue one of the Twelve Fruits of the Holy Spirit. It’s not a bad advise.

What I am saying, Mannyfit, is that in order to “develop” that virtue, the HS will lead one into such situations as my extremely “try” one’s patience. There fore, it is much better to thank the lord for the patience one already has and not ask for any MORE!

Since it is a gift of the spirit, given in baptism, one must realize that one already has the “gift”. However, unwrapping that gift and putting that gift to work…it is like using a muscle, the more of a workout it gets, the bigger it is!

Now we are off topic. The poster said that it was frustrating that RCIA was only once a year, and it was taking too long to convert. So, there ya have it! He has already been placed in a situation where patience is being tried.

 

[QuicumqueVult]

Well, you mustn’t know as many smart Anglicans as I do. . . . I still don’t buy the argument. CAF is not and does not claim to be a repository of scholarship. It is a populist, popular enterprise, much like wikipedia. And like wikipedia, it’s very entertaining and often informative. The subject matter covered has nothing to do with the level of expertise involved, by the way. Catholic scholars typically speak very differently to the folks on this forum. The people on this forum are usually either puzzled or angered by what Catholic scholars say. They even find the Pope shocking from time to time (the current Pope being, by the way, one of the finest Catholic scholars out there).CAF is very much like StandFirm.

Edwin

​

I’m glad you know so many intelligent Anglicans. Actually, I think that might be a cultural thing. In England, to be an Anglican means you’re English unless otherwise religiously affiliated or a professed atheist. Anglicans who go to Church are typically somewhat uninterested in theology. They are usually wonderfully devout Christians, very good in our Lord’s sense of ‘good and faithful servant’ in their attention to spiritual and social matters, but aren’t bothered by doctrine a bit. In the end, I suspect they might even be judged more favourably than me.

But your claim that there is some sort of discrepancy between what Catholic scholars teach and what CAF members typically post needs a bit more clarification.

Please would you give me an example of such a discrepancy? Given that most posters aren’t scholars, myself included – though I do a have a master’s degree from a rather liberal Protestant theological college – it seems a bit unfair to compare the two ‘regimes’, if you will.

Cheers,
QV

 

[Church_Militant]

Great conversion story:thumbsup:

Thanks… Glory Be To God!

 

[Ani_Ibi]

He has already been placed in a situation where patience is being tried.

Good.

 

[QuicumqueVult]

Well, you mustn’t know as many smart Anglicans as I do. . . . I still don’t buy the argument. CAF is not and does not claim to be a repository of scholarship. It is a populist, popular enterprise, much like wikipedia. And like wikipedia, it’s very entertaining and often informative. The subject matter covered has nothing to do with the level of expertise involved, by the way. Catholic scholars typically speak very differently to the folks on this forum. The people on this forum are usually either puzzled or angered by what Catholic scholars say. They even find the Pope shocking from time to time (the current Pope being, by the way, one of the finest Catholic scholars out there).CAF is very much like StandFirm.

Edwin

​

Hiya mate,

I’ll grant the OED/Wikipedia analogy might be obtuse. My point was that OED is ‘magisterial’ and rather final in its lexicographical adjudications. It speaks authoritatively for the English language. CAF as a condensed OED seemed salutary as an analogy. I do of course beg the question of Anglicanism or its various online forums having any magisterial authority by denying they have the fulness of the Magisterium (though I believe we do not).

Again, please would you give an example of a discrepancy between what ‘Catholic scholars’ teach and what ‘typical CAF members’ post. Please cite name of scholar as well. I really am interested. Here’s an example. Raymond Brown taught a rather liberal doctrine of the apostolic succession. He seemed to think it’s immaterial whether the apostles intended to ordain successors in their place. But he did affirm the Apostolic Succession. He was an excellent, seminal biblical scholar (his NT intro is outstanding), not a magister, less than a bishop in actual fact in terms of his authority to posit doctrine.

 

[Janet_S]

Do you notice any differences in the posts by Canadian, Australian, English or Irish posters

Yes, I do. Of course these forums attract similarly minded people from all over the world, but generally speaking the posters from other parts of the English-speaking world are not quite in sync with the ideology here. Look at Jack_Hawkins or Gottle of Geer (English), for instance, or david_arlette (Australian, though admittedly he is not yet Catholic, or else very recently Catholic).

Edwin

I’m not that familiar with Gottle or David, though I have seen Gottle a few times.

I have been on a lot of threads with Jack, though. He disagrees with most of the moral teachings of the Catholic Church especially regarding contraception, abortion, and in vitro fertilization. He disagrees with most other Catholic teachings as well (the papacy and the divine authority of the Church for example).

I’m not sure this is a function of his nationality (he’s English). There are a lot of American Catholics who disagree with the CC’s moral teachings too, and some of them post here (Texas Roofer is one I can think of).

With most people here, though, I don’t know where they’re from.

 

[smolderingwick]

Patience is a virtue one of the Twelve Fruits of the Holy Spirit. It’s not a bad advise.

i agree with guanophore… I have never prayed for patience… although i have heard the word in my head in answer to certain prayers i’ve prayed to Jesus…

We don’t have to pray for that… LIfe and living is all about patience… Patience with others, patience with God… and hardest of all sometimes, patience with outselves…

 

[smolderingwick]

Yes, but did you get what I said about MOST Catholics BELIEVING in limbo. That’s because the RCC TAUGHT it. It doesn’t matter that it wasn’t written in the Catechism. It was TAUGHT. So much for your beloved ORAL tradition.

i take it you don’t believe in oral tradition. So you must not be Catholic. I am just curious as to waht you are, what religion you adhere to, etc…?

The Catholic Church, in my opinion, is in need of a lot of … for lack of a better word Reform… but it is the people who need reforming, not the One who established the Church (Jesus)… His teachings, as passed on to us through the Magesterium, are perfect…

 

[rr1213]

“Name 3 reasons you are not Catholic (yet).”

I’m sorely tempted to say “because of the example of Catholics in these forums who won’t condemn burning heretics at the stake.” (Said only half-jokingly )

 

[Mannyfit75]

“Name 3 reasons you are not Catholic (yet).”

I’m sorely tempted to say “because of the example of Catholics in these forums who won’t condemn burning heretics at the stake.” (Said only half-jokingly )

The Catholics in these forum that our separated brothers and sisters in Christ to become Catholic. Not burn at the stake.

 

[kujo313]

i agree with guanophore… I have never prayed for patience… although i have heard the word in my head in answer to certain prayers i’ve prayed to Jesus…

We don’t have to pray for that… LIfe and living is all about patience… Patience with others, patience with God… and hardest of all sometimes, patience with outselves…

lol patience for dealing with others. You can talk to God about it and He’ll say “Wait a minute.” His “minute” can take years! lol

Meanwhile, while waiting, you get stronger in your own patience.

 

[kujo313]

i take it you don’t believe in oral tradition. So you must not be Catholic. I am just curious as to waht you are, what religion you adhere to, etc…?

The Catholic Church, in my opinion, is in need of a lot of … for lack of a better word Reform… but it is the people who need reforming, not the One who established the Church (Jesus)… His teachings, as passed on to us through the Magesterium, are perfect…

HOW do you know what IS true oral tradition and what isn’t?

 

[Janet_S]

“Name 3 reasons you are not Catholic (yet).”

I’m sorely tempted to say “because of the example of Catholics in these forums who won’t condemn burning heretics at the stake.” (Said only half-jokingly )

Have you ever heard of a Catholic here who thought burning heretics was a good idea? That we should start doing it again? I haven’t.

It’s a terrible thing, but it was a different world then. Heresy was considered treason, and the punishment for treason was to be burned at the stake. It’s not something we are proud of, but it seems that critics always bring this up and ignore the great contributions of Catholicism (charitable works, taking care of the sick and needy, universities, music, art, architecture, canon law, international law, monasteries, preservation of books by scribes, science.)

But these things are usually forgotten. Also forgotten is the fact that Protestants have a lot of skeletons in their closets too–look what happened to Catholic priests in England during Queen Elizabeth’s reign (hanging, drawing, and quartering.) Protestants fought and killed each other as well (Lutherans vs Anabaptists.) We do live in a fallen world. What Christian church has sinless members?

And unlike Protestants, we Catholics don’t have the option to split from our denomination and start our own churches to avoid scandal. We come from a Church that is 2000 years old, that survived in the real world amid real history. Even if there are sinful members, there is no option for us to leave if we really believe we are members of the Church Christ established.

If I wanted to be in a perfect, scandal-free church, I would start my own today. I would have no baggage of a messy past to deal with–no Inquisition, Crusades, or burning heretics at the stake.

Then I will have established a pure, untainted church; that is until I do something sinful. Then I must split from myself, establish a newer, purer church, and start all over again.

 

[Mirdath]

Have you ever heard of a Catholic here who thought burning heretics was a good idea? That we should start doing it again? I haven’t.

However, there are plenty more who defend the historical execution of heretics as being contributory to the continuance and general good of society. The Church has done a lot of good over the years, but a lot of harm as well; it’s no unfair criticism to ask that its members recognize both.

Also, the tu quoque for the Protestants has been beaten to death. It doesn’t make the wrongdoing of Catholics look any better, only makes those using it seem childish.

 

[Mannyfit75]

HOW do you know what IS true oral tradition and what isn’t?

The bishops received orally the traditions from the successors of the Apostles, and the Apostles received it from Jesus. If you look at the Early Christian history, there is a succession dating from the time of the Apostles, who handed it down to the Apostolic Fathers, and ECF, who then handed this to the bishops or patriarchs of the Church today.

 

[Janet_S]

Also, the tu quoque for the Protestants has been beaten to death. It doesn’t make the wrongdoing of Catholics look any better, only makes those using it seem childish.

It’s not unreasonable to give a balanced view of history. Why does everyone so readily accept every horrible accusation against the CC as being the gospel truth?

 

[Goth_Catholic]

However, there are plenty more who defend the historical execution of heretics as being contributory to the continuance and general good of society. The Church has done a lot of good over the years, but a lot of harm as well; it’s no unfair criticism to ask that its members recognize both.

Also, the tu quoque for the Protestants has been beaten to death. It doesn’t make the wrongdoing of Catholics look any better, only makes those using it seem childish.

As my history teacher put it you need to look back on history with the eyes of those at the time. We can’t judge the past by modern standards.

 

[distracted]

kujo313:
If you believed the Bible, you would beleive in the Eucharist (John 6, etc.).

And waht about 1 cor. 11 (i think) 22 that says if you do not discern the Body and Blood, you should not receive? and furthermore, that terrible consequences will ensue if you do?
dire consequences do not ensue from ingesting mere symbolic bread and wine…

 

[Good_Fella]

i agree with guanophore… I have never prayed for patience… although i have heard the word in my head in answer to certain prayers i’ve prayed to Jesus…

We don’t have to pray for that… LIfe and living is all about patience… Patience with others, patience with God… and hardest of all sometimes, patience with outselves…

On the contrary, the Church teaches we must pray for patience, for it is impossible
to have patience without the grace of God. We ask God for grace, for without him we
can do nothing. What you assert smacks of Pelagiansim.

Patience, as a virtue, is caused by charity, according to 1 Corinthians 13:4, “Charity
is patient.” It is impossible to have the theological virtue of charity or love without God’s grace.
According to Romans 5:5, “The charity of God is poured forth in our hearts by the Holy Spirit
who is given to us.” So it is impossible to have patience without God’s gift of grace. We must
pray to receive all the gifts of the Spirit. Besides, to exercise the cardinal virtue of fortitude we
must first have patience. Patience is required in order for us to exercise all the theological and
cardinal virtues. One is treading a dangerous line if he believes he does not need to pray for the
grace of patience.

 

[LordHaveMercy]

1. My family is Methodist
2. …?
3. …?

My complete reason is that my family is Methodist, so when i move out, it’s RCIA for me.