K
kujo313
Guest
Actually, your church wandered away from the Truth and worshipped the created instead of the Creator. Your church puts their trust in a fallible man in Rome instead of the infallible Word of God.
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G
Goth_Catholic
Guest
My church is the church Jesus Christ himself started and that is the most ridiclous thing I’ve ever heard. We worship God and God alone. The pope is Infalliable, and the vicar of Christ, but that isn’t the point. The church trusts both. Just as scipture and tradition are equally honored But the word of God was written by Men. Infalliable, yes in it’s orginal form. But it’s original form is not what you read. What you read is a mistranslated, changed, incomplete version.
M
Mommyof02green
Guest
M
Mommyof02green
Guest
K
kujo313
Guest
Look up “worship” at Dictionary.com. Yes you do.
K
kujo313
Guest
The word of God was written by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. What translation are you reading from? Islamics say that Islam is the truth, Mormons say Mormonism, catholics say catholicism, etc, etc.
Your religion takes and chooses from the Word and makes bizarre traditions that contradict the very nature of God and His Will for us.
Again, what translation are you reading from?
K
kujo313
Guest
Funny, I thought His chosen people is Israel. I thought He’s the God of “whosoever”.
Now I bet the races will argue on what color God is.
G
Goth_Catholic
Guest
Talk to God someday and see what he says. Bet you a lifetime He’ll tell you, you can ask Mary yourself.
M
Mommyof02green
Guest
One of the many meanings that dictionary.com gave was this:
to attend services of divine worship.
Today being Sunday I attended a service of divine worship. We call this “Mass”.
Here is a link to the words that were said today (and every Mass).
catholic-resources.org/ChurchDocs/Mass.htm
As you can see I worship God and God ALONE.
I don’t know if you have ever sat in a Catholic Church on a Sunday and see with your own two eye how Catholics really worship.
Maybe you should. Just so you can see with your own two eyes how Catholics really worship. (Just an idea)
If that’s too much to do that’s fine. There always the possibility to see with your own eyes how Catholic Worship via the comforts of your PC or TV.
EWTN is one of the many channels that does air the Catholic Mass. Here is a link to EWTN program schedule. This schedule will allow you to see when the Mass is on TV.
EWTN program schedule: ewtn.com/tv/schedule_index.asp
Here is a link that will allow you to watch Live feed of EWTN via your PC. (This is helpful if you don’t have EWTN in your area)
Link to watch live feed of EWTN via your PC:
ewtn.com/audiovideo/index.asp
May God Bless you now and forever.
C
Contarini
Guest
G
Good_Fella
Guest
Kujo, the Assumption of Mary into heaven could no more dishonour Christ as our
own resurrection. So I fail to see how Catholics exalt Mary beyond any scriptural
warrant. If anything dishonours Christ, it is the vile tendency of many Protestants to
erroneously misquote Holy Scriptures to dishonour his mother. Indeed, the Gospel of
Luke suggests that the Mother of God should not suffer the corruption of death: “For
the Almighty has done great things for me.” The present perfect tense indicates that God
has blessed Mary in an extraordinary way from all eternity. She was graced at the point
of her immaculate conception, before she was ever born, and was so graced still after her
death that she could not have possibly shared the same fate as the rest of us. Because
of God’s special favour to his Son’s mother (“The Lord has looked with favour on his lowly
handmaid.”) Mary is no disembodied spirit whose rotten corpse is entombed somewhere, as
you erroneously believe, but she has been glorified by God to exist body and soul with
her divine Son. And why shouldn’t Mary be there first ahead of the rest of us Christians who
die in a state of sanctifying grace? She is the mother of Christ, isn’t she? Her womb was
enveloped by the Holy Spirit, wasn’t it? There is enough implicit scriptural evidence that
Mary was assumed into heaven. Catholics do not dishonour Christ by honouring his
Mother, for we honour Mary because of her Son and the special favours the Father has
granted her from all eternity before condescending at the Annunciation.Kujo, it
is Protestants like you who dishonour the Son by dishonouring his mother and the Holy
Spirit, her divine Spouse. God exalted Mary before our eyes at the Annunciation in the
Gospel of Luke. Listen to him: “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.” And she is
with the Lord body and soul in heaven.
Protestants fail to see Mary in the light of the mystery of Christ. They fail to see,
or refuse to see, that her assumption takes nothing from Christ himself, but rather
reveals his saving power. Mary was the first person to know and believe in Christ, so
she is the first person to share in his Resurrection, preceding the rest of us. God has
granted her “a singular participation in her Son’s resurrection” [CCC#966] which is
not a salvific event which stands on its own. Kujo, if you had the power to take your
mother’s body and soul to heaven, with no questions asked, wouldn’t you do it?
Jesus expects us to see for ourselves in the light of faith and the scriptures that he
certainly would because of the love he has for his mother.The relationship of Christ’s
redemption with Mary’s privileges is one of cause and effect. His Incarnation, death,
and Resurrection is the effecient and final cause of Mary’s Immaculate Conception,
divine motherhood - Jesus also has a divine nature-, and glorious Assumption. Christ has
exalted her, and we Catholics recognize this truth. Mary’s cousin, Elizabeth, certainly
recognized Mary’s singular privileged state and paid her the honourable recognition
that she deserves. “Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” {Luke}
Kujo, will you charge Mary’s cousin with blasphemy for having “exalted” her?
The Bible does indeed tell us, although implicitly, that Mary was assumed into heaven,
for she was no average human being in virtue of her divine Son and in accordance with
the eternal will of the Father with the Holy Spirit. So what did the apostles think when they
found the tomb of Mary empty? The Catholic Church infallibly teaches us what they must
have thought at the time.
It doesn’t matter what Protestants think, for the Protestant movement
has no authority to infallibly teach any doctrine, having been founded by
a heretical ex-Catholic monk: “Sin valiantly, but believe even more valiantly.”
[Martin Luther]
own resurrection. So I fail to see how Catholics exalt Mary beyond any scriptural
warrant. If anything dishonours Christ, it is the vile tendency of many Protestants to
erroneously misquote Holy Scriptures to dishonour his mother. Indeed, the Gospel of
Luke suggests that the Mother of God should not suffer the corruption of death: “For
the Almighty has done great things for me.” The present perfect tense indicates that God
has blessed Mary in an extraordinary way from all eternity. She was graced at the point
of her immaculate conception, before she was ever born, and was so graced still after her
death that she could not have possibly shared the same fate as the rest of us. Because
of God’s special favour to his Son’s mother (“The Lord has looked with favour on his lowly
handmaid.”) Mary is no disembodied spirit whose rotten corpse is entombed somewhere, as
you erroneously believe, but she has been glorified by God to exist body and soul with
her divine Son. And why shouldn’t Mary be there first ahead of the rest of us Christians who
die in a state of sanctifying grace? She is the mother of Christ, isn’t she? Her womb was
enveloped by the Holy Spirit, wasn’t it? There is enough implicit scriptural evidence that
Mary was assumed into heaven. Catholics do not dishonour Christ by honouring his
Mother, for we honour Mary because of her Son and the special favours the Father has
granted her from all eternity before condescending at the Annunciation.Kujo, it
is Protestants like you who dishonour the Son by dishonouring his mother and the Holy
Spirit, her divine Spouse. God exalted Mary before our eyes at the Annunciation in the
Gospel of Luke. Listen to him: “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.” And she is
with the Lord body and soul in heaven.
Protestants fail to see Mary in the light of the mystery of Christ. They fail to see,
or refuse to see, that her assumption takes nothing from Christ himself, but rather
reveals his saving power. Mary was the first person to know and believe in Christ, so
she is the first person to share in his Resurrection, preceding the rest of us. God has
granted her “a singular participation in her Son’s resurrection” [CCC#966] which is
not a salvific event which stands on its own. Kujo, if you had the power to take your
mother’s body and soul to heaven, with no questions asked, wouldn’t you do it?
Jesus expects us to see for ourselves in the light of faith and the scriptures that he
certainly would because of the love he has for his mother.The relationship of Christ’s
redemption with Mary’s privileges is one of cause and effect. His Incarnation, death,
and Resurrection is the effecient and final cause of Mary’s Immaculate Conception,
divine motherhood - Jesus also has a divine nature-, and glorious Assumption. Christ has
exalted her, and we Catholics recognize this truth. Mary’s cousin, Elizabeth, certainly
recognized Mary’s singular privileged state and paid her the honourable recognition
that she deserves. “Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” {Luke}
Kujo, will you charge Mary’s cousin with blasphemy for having “exalted” her?
The Bible does indeed tell us, although implicitly, that Mary was assumed into heaven,
for she was no average human being in virtue of her divine Son and in accordance with
the eternal will of the Father with the Holy Spirit. So what did the apostles think when they
found the tomb of Mary empty? The Catholic Church infallibly teaches us what they must
have thought at the time.
It doesn’t matter what Protestants think, for the Protestant movement
has no authority to infallibly teach any doctrine, having been founded by
a heretical ex-Catholic monk: “Sin valiantly, but believe even more valiantly.”
[Martin Luther]
G
Goth_Catholic
Guest
Good Fella, I love you. That was beatifull, thank you.
Just a side note though, even Martin Luther honored the Blessed Virgin and knew that Mary was the queen of heaven and earth. He turned his back on the Church, but he still belived in our most holy Mother. If he could see what he created I highly doubt he would have broken from us at all.
Just a side note though, even Martin Luther honored the Blessed Virgin and knew that Mary was the queen of heaven and earth. He turned his back on the Church, but he still belived in our most holy Mother. If he could see what he created I highly doubt he would have broken from us at all.
T
Techno2000
Guest
LOL Luther really said that.“Sin valiantly, but believe even more valiantly.”
[Martin Luther]
C
Contarini
Guest
Can you summarize briefly the context in which Luther said it?LOL Luther really said that.
Can you explain why it is OK for you to take Luther out of context, but not for anti-Catholics to take Catholics out of context?
Edwin
K
kujo313
Guest
Nope. Gonna ask God, Himself, thanks to Jesus.
K
kujo313
Guest
John 17
Code:
Our Lord's Prayer. No mention of Mary. Your verse in Luke assumes nothing.These are the main references to Mary in the New Testament:
Annunciation, visit to Elizabeth, birth and early life of Jesus - Matthew 1,2; Luke 1,2
Woman, what have I to do with thee? - John 2:1-11
Is not his mother called Mary? - Matthew 13:54-58; Mark 6:1-6; Luke 4:16-31
Who is my mother? - Matthew 12:46-50; Mark 3:31-35; Luke 8:19-21
Woman, behold thy son! - John 19:26,27
With the early disciples - Acts 1:14
Made of a woman - Galatians 4:4
It is true, the Bible does not say much about Mary. However, the Bible tells us enough about her that we need to know. She was the virgin mother of our Lord, whom God chose by His grace to fulfill this special role in the plan of redemption. And for the unique privilege she is called blessed by all Christians and in all ages.
The Roman Catholic doctrines about Mary, namely, the perpetual virginity, the Immaculate Conception, the Assumption to heaven, and the titles Queen of Heaven, mediatrix, our mother, our life, our hope and others are conspicuously absent from the Bible.
Why so? Simply because the Bible is a book about another person, who was chosen and appointed by God to be the mediator and savior of the world. That person is Jesus Christ.
The Lord Jesus said: “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me” (John 5:39). The Bible is the Book about the Lord Jesus Christ and we should be wholeheartedly devoted to Him.
By doing otherwise is simply saying “no” to God and His one and only plan for Salvation. The angel Gabriel did NOT ask Mary her permission but said “you will conceive.” If Mary would’ve said “no”, God’s plan would not have stopped.
L
Lively_Stone
Guest
“The pope is Infalliable.”
Is the Pope a man that can sin? What scripture says he’ is other than a man? 1826 Websters defines.
INFAL’LIBLE, a. [L. fallo.]
1. Not fallible; not capable of erring; entirely exempt from liability to mistake; applied to persons. No man is infallible; to be infallible is the prerogative of God only.
2. Not liable to fail, or to deceive confidence; certain; as infallible evidence; infallible success.
Do you say the Pope is God?
What is a vicar of Christ? Excuse my ignorance. I know the definition from reading it in the 1828 Websters. Says he is a “person”. How did a person become infalliable? If he were infallable he would be a god, and not subject to death. Sin came into the world through Adam and along with it a death sentence for us mere mortals, creation of God. Do Popes die. Do they sin?
“Just as scipture and tradition are equally honored”
The Bible warns against traditions of men.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
"But the word of God was written by Men. Infalliable, yes in it’s orginal form. But it’s original form is not what you read. What you read is a mistranslated, changed, incomplete version.
Who told you these lies from hell? If you can have an original infallible church, then why can’t God do what he said he would do and preserve his word for all generations. God is not a man that he can lie.
Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from
the law, till all be fulfilled.
1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached
unto you.
Either your wrong or God is not capable of doing what he said he would do.
Please don’t send me links to oral tradition or writing other than Biblical. I can only be convinced by the Holy Word of God by the Apostles doctrine as recorded and handed down from them as they learned from the Lord Jesus Himself…
Do you think oral tradition is the answer? Too easy to corrupt. I can trace the languge of my Bible back to the 1st century Gothic. Why so much trust in men and not your own salvation. Each of us will give account for every word that we speak at the judgement seat of Christ. Be sure you are speaking the words of God and not men. Your eternity will depend on it. There will be no indulgences at the judgment seat. You and I will stand on our own testimony and faith in Jesus Christ. It is all about the Cross and the what happended there. Nothing else matters.
Jesus is Lord of All
Danny
K
kujo313
Guest
Been there, done that for 20 years. Same words said every mass.
We should not worship any creature, not even the blessed Mary. We must worship God only. We can never love Jesus too much; He is our Creator who takes care of us and all the universe. He became man for our salvation and died on the cross to save His people from their sins. I love the Lord Jesus too. He is the very purpose of my life and my sincere desire is to honour His name.
The humble Jewish woman has the unique privilege that no other woman can have. Mary was chosen of God to be the mother of the Lord when He became man. Yet we understand that Mary is not the saviour herself. Indeed she needed the Lord to save her, like every other human being since Adam and to the end of the world. She herself acknowledges God as “my saviour” (Luke 1:47).
Every Christian should consider Mary with respect. She is forever to be called blessed. Yet, I think it is a sign of disrespect when people expect from her things that she cannot give. Why would people pray to her, when the Bible clearly teaches us that we should pray to God and that God alone knows our hearts (1 Kings 8:39)? Why would people ask grace from Mary, when the Bible teaches us that all grace comes from God (1 Peter 5:10)? Why should people call her “our life” and “our hope”, when the Bible teaches us that the Lord is our life and hope (Colossians 3:4; 1 Timothy 1:1)? Why should people make her a mediator, when the Bible says that there is one mediator, Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5)? And why should people trust even the hour of their death wholly to her care? Isn’t the Good Shepherd able to keep His sheep and bring them safely to glory (John 10:27,28)?
As we would expect, we do not find explicit statements in Catholic literature that we should worship Mary. Yet, in practice, the Catholic attitude towards Mary amounts to worship. Catholics worship Mary because they pray to her, kneel before her image, trust in her for salvation and attribute to her titles and honours which belong to God alone. May God grant them repentance. Rather than looking unto a creature, we should follow Mary in her godly example and apply ourselves to the Lord for salvation and all spiritual blessings.
K
kujo313
Guest
Who told you these lies from hell? If you can have an original infallible church, then why can’t God do what he said he would do and preserve his word for all generations. God is not a man that he can lie.
Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from
the law, till all be fulfilled.
1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached
unto you.
Either your wrong or God is not capable of doing what he said he would do.
Please don’t send me links to oral tradition or writing other than Biblical. I can only be convinced by the Holy Word of God by the Apostles doctrine as recorded and handed down from them as they learned from the Lord Jesus Himself…
Do you think oral tradition is the answer? Too easy to corrupt. I can trace the languge of my Bible back to the 1st century Gothic. Why so much trust in men and not your own salvation. Each of us will give account for every word that we speak at the judgement seat of Christ. Be sure you are speaking the words of God and not men. Your eternity will depend on it. There will be no indulgences at the judgment seat. You and I will stand on our own testimony and faith in Jesus Christ. It is all about the Cross and the what happended there. Nothing else matters.
Jesus is Lord of All
Danny
Amen! You’d figure that if anybody would want to get to Heaven that they’d try it God’s Way. The RCC says that “The Church teaches” carries more weight than “It is written!”
“for the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart” (Hebrews 4:12).
This is a spiritual battle. Clever arguments and a multitude of quotations would not even begin to scratch the fortress of sinful resistance enslaving the human heart. Only God the Holy Spirit can open their eyes to see the truth revealed in His Holy Word, as He did to us. Therefore pray that God may be merciful and grant them wisdom to know Him in truth.
I bet a response to this will have a (CCC) attached to it.
L
Lively_Stone
Guest
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