Name 3 reasons you are not Catholic (yet).

[kujo313]

Three reasons? I can think of a great many, but now I have to select three?? You can’t do that to me

But here goes, in no particular order. If one or more of the reasons overlap…well, sorry :

1: I do not recognize the validity of the position the catholic church grants “tradition”, since this is very very shaky ground.
Traditions change; the Truth does not, and neither does God.
I think this “tradition-dogma” might be the root of most or all of my grievings, since it is the foundation of them

2: I do not recognize the “authority” of the Poepe. I believe that the verses this teaching is based on (“Thou art Peter, and upon this rock…”) is being grossly violated in this dogma.
Especially since Christ moments later tells this apparant “rock” that he is satan himself (“Get thee behind me, satan!”)

3: The cult of Mary and the cult of the saints.
It seems like, and I mean no offence by this, a complete circus with saints for everything from truckdrivers to ballet dansers.
3,1: The saints (including Mary) are dead. They will rise on the last day, and live with Christ forever, but as of this moment, they are as dead as the keyboard I’m using to type this. So they can’t intercede on our behalfs, nor can they pray to God for us.
3,2: All who believe in Christ are saints. And the best prove of this is to read the letters from Paul, adressing “the saints in …” [insert name of town here]

That was three…

I agree.

1. The catholics quote Paul saying to “keep your traditions” but they don’t finish the sentence: “as we have taught”. It didn’t say to make up some “traditions” later but to keep the ones they already taught.
2. Why is it that Peter represented only just him but John at the cross represented everybody? If Peter represented all believers, then the Great Commission makes more sense to all believers and the defination of “pure religion” is too (to care for the widows and orphans).
3. Though the catholics can say that we intercede for each other so we’re mediators too, they believe that Mary never died so she’s interceding for us like she did at the wedding in Cana. She tells the servants to do what Jesus says so why are the servants STILL going to her?
   There are “patron saints” for just about everything. Most of the things existed after the “saint” died.

3.1 The Word says you die, then the judgement.
3.2 All believers in Jesus, His Gospel, and the Gospel that Paul preached (which is Christ) are saints. We’re kings and priests, too. The RCC makes a “show” of it all with all the dressy outfits and decorations. It’s like they’re shouting, “HEY! LOOK AT ME!”

There was no personal relationship like Elijah walking with God. Instead, it’s all ceremony and show.

 

[jedimasterham]

Just one question to it all (and maybe this should be in another thread, but I can’t just let this be ):

Proof?
1: Evidence against God? Show me

2: Flaws and mistakes in the Bible? Show me.

3: Proof it…

1. Particle theory and Thermodynamic laws state that everything in the universe are constantly changing, and impermanent. There’s no way for anything to be permanent, except change itself, and no way for a “permanent god” to exist in an impermanent universe.
2. The bible holds virtues, but history wise is inflated. One of the bible writers, who was searching through stone tablet historical events, found the story of noah, who was actually a king, who ran a successful market, with his slaves under him, and was caught in a flash flood on his boat(which was the size of a 5 person sail boat). It was written down in stone, because floods and storms in that area were very rare. So it was incorporated into the bible and exagerated. Also,
   -EZ 20:25 God says that he intentionally gave out bad laws. (This means that God-given laws or commandments are sometimes suspect.)
   -The creation account in Genesis divided time into days and the days into evening and morning for three days before the sun was even created (1:1-19). “There was evening and there was morning,” we are told, “one day… a second day… a third day,” but as any astronomer knows, evening (night) and morning (daylight) result from the earth’s rotation with respect to the sun. With no sun, there would have certainly been evening or night, but there could have been no morning. there’s more, you’ll have to verify the rest…
3. They actually found the tomb of Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene if you watched the tv. So there’s physical proof that they existed as humans. The pope now said, “'Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.” This is enough to show the human nature of the pope…

-Also, look up “banned books of the bible,” the ones that the church deemed not correct by their standards. They’re the ones that would have made this world a much different place.

 

[Deo_Volente]

Grace & Peace!

I really just have 2. I have a couple quibbles with some other points, but these are the two which prevent me from crossing the Tiber:

1: Papal supremacy–I believe this represents a usurpation of jurisdictional authority due in part to a co-opting of Roman imperial culture–a political move given dogmatic authority and read backwards into tradition. The Eastern Orthodox churches are dead right on this point: the Pope should be first among equals, not Supreme Pontifex.

2: The tendency in Roman theologizing to define everything, which tends to commodify grace and create a culture not of loving obedience, but of obligation.

The quibbles (which I see as minor in comparison to these two) include:

a–Definition of the Immaculate Conception (I agree with the churches of the East on this point).
b–Definition of Original Sin (again, I agree with the churches of the East on this point).
c–I believe that women are worthy of ordination.
d–I do not agree with Rome with regard to a select few moral issues.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

Deo Gratias!

 

[Lively_Stone]

1. Particle theory and Thermodynamic laws state that everything in the universe are constantly changing, and impermanent. There’s no way for anything to be permanent, except change itself, and no way for a “permanent god” to exist in an impermanent universe.
2. The bible holds virtues, but history wise is inflated. One of the bible writers, who was searching through stone tablet historical events, found the story of noah, who was actually a king, who ran a successful market, with his slaves under him, and was caught in a flash flood on his boat(which was the size of a 5 person sail boat). It was written down in stone, because floods and storms in that area were very rare. So it was incorporated into the bible and exagerated. Also,
   -EZ 20:25 God says that he intentionally gave out bad laws. (This means that God-given laws or commandments are sometimes suspect.)
   -The creation account in Genesis divided time into days and the days into evening and morning for three days before the sun was even created (1:1-19). “There was evening and there was morning,” we are told, “one day… a second day… a third day,” but as any astronomer knows, evening (night) and morning (daylight) result from the earth’s rotation with respect to the sun. With no sun, there would have certainly been evening or night, but there could have been no morning. there’s more, you’ll have to verify the rest…
3. They actually found the tomb of Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene if you watched the tv. So there’s physical proof that they existed as humans. The pope now said, “'Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.” This is enough to show the human nature of the pope…

-Also, look up “banned books of the bible,” the ones that the church deemed not correct by their standards. They’re the ones that would have made this world a much different place.

So what does any of this have to do with us or your Buddhist beliefs? If you already have the answers, whats the beef? Noone Catholic or Prostestant would buy any of this nonsense you are spuing. You claim you are Buddist. Perhaps you would like to enlighten us on what that means and has to do with our belief in Jesus Christ as the saviour of all mankind.

 

[Lively_Stone]

1. There’s no proof of god, in fact, there’s evidence against one.
2. The bible contains, flaws and mistakes, contains inflated history.
3. The pope is just a person as was jesus.

There is no proof of what you say young Jedi that the movies you watch are true, yet you take the name of one of their pagan priest. Show me the flaws and mistakes in the Bible and I will show you that you are wrong. The Bible was given to correct us young Jedi, not for you or anyone else to correct the word of God. You have just blasphemed against God by denying him and by denying his Holy Word. Please present your evidence so heaven and earth can record it. You have already damned yourself by denying God.

 

[Contarini]

1. The bible holds virtues, but history wise is inflated. One of the bible writers, who was searching through stone tablet historical events, found the story of noah, who was actually a king, who ran a successful market, with his slaves under him, and was caught in a flash flood on his boat(which was the size of a 5 person sail boat). It was written down in stone, because floods and storms in that area were very rare. So it was incorporated into the bible and exagerated.

Where on earth are you getting this bizarre story from? This is just made up. Either you are joking or you are very gullible–far more so than the people who think that there was a literal worldwide flood!

Also,
-EZ 20:25 God says that he intentionally gave out bad laws. (This means that God-given laws or commandments are sometimes suspect.)

Christian theology would not take this literally, since God does nothing evil–but God might allow people to have less than perfect laws, yes. Not everything in the OT necessarily represents God’s perfect will, and perhaps the same is true for some of the “household codes” in the NT, which pertain to following good order and respecting social mores.

-The creation account in Genesis divided time into days and the days into evening and morning for three days before the sun was even created (1:1-19). “There was evening and there was morning,” we are told, “one day… a second day… a third day,” but as any astronomer knows, evening (night) and morning (daylight) result from the earth’s rotation with respect to the sun. With no sun, there would have certainly been evening or night, but there could have been no morning.

That’s a silly argument, because it assumes that the 7-day creation account is literal.

1. They actually found the tomb of Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene if you watched the tv.

So you believe everything you see on TV? Wow–you really are gullible, aren’t you? The archeologist who actually discovered the tomb pooh-pooh’s Cameron’s interpretation. This is nothing but a bit of media razzle-dazzle.

The pope now said, “'Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.” This is enough to show the human nature of the pope…

Brace yourself–according to Catholic teaching, the Pope doesn’t just have a human side. He’s human, period. God just prevents him from making big mistakes in declaring offical doctrine. The Pope’s Regensburg speech was in no sense covered by this. Furthermore, you have (once again) not informed yourself very carefully. The Pope was quoting a 14th-century Byzantine emperor and made it clear that these were not necessarily his views. Nor was this opinion completely unjustifiable. I can’t offhand think of anything original to Muhammad that I would regard as good religiously speaking. He had a lot of good ideas, but he took them from Jewish and Christian sources, just as the emperor said. Can you mention something original to Muhammad that you regard as positive? Maybe some of the social legislation, which was good in its time and place (women having some definite rights, albeit less than men, for instance).

-Also, look up “banned books of the bible,” the ones that the church deemed not correct by their standards. They’re the ones that would have made this world a much different place.

How? Which books? What is so great about them?

Edwin

 

[Lively_Stone]

Where on earth are you getting this bizarre story from? This is just made up. Either you are joking or you are very gullible–far more so than the people who think that there was a literal worldwide flood!

Christian theology would not take this literally, since God does nothing evil–but God might allow people to have less than perfect laws, yes. Not everything in the OT necessarily represents God’s perfect will, and perhaps the same is true for some of the “household codes” in the NT, which pertain to following good order and respecting social mores.

That’s a silly argument, because it assumes that the 7-day creation account is literal.

So you believe everything you see on TV? Wow–you really are gullible, aren’t you? The archeologist who actually discovered the tomb pooh-pooh’s Cameron’s interpretation. This is nothing but a bit of media razzle-dazzle.

Brace yourself–according to Catholic teaching, the Pope doesn’t just have a human side. He’s human, period. God just prevents him from making big mistakes in declaring offical doctrine. The Pope’s Regensburg speech was in no sense covered by this. Furthermore, you have (once again) not informed yourself very carefully. The Pope was quoting a 14th-century Byzantine emperor and made it clear that these were not necessarily his views. Nor was this opinion completely unjustifiable. I can’t offhand think of anything original to Muhammad that I would regard as good religiously speaking. He had a lot of good ideas, but he took them from Jewish and Christian sources, just as the emperor said. Can you mention something original to Muhammad that you regard as positive? Maybe some of the social legislation, which was good in its time and place (women having some definite rights, albeit less than men, for instance).

How? Which books? What is so great about them?

Edwin

Good answers Edwin. It appears that Jedi gets his information from movies and television and believes anything and nothing. He does not have a clue about the spiritual ramnifications of what he is espousing. I am glad you are in this debate as I have so little patience with this sort of thing. Guess I need to pray for more patience. May God bless you to have the right word seasoned with the Holy Spirit of promise to answer the young Jedi. Everyone needs to pray for him to recieve some light before it is too late for him to return from the abyss he is falling into. It will be a shame if Satan gets another young person for his pleasure and eternal torment.

Thanks for you insight.
Danny

 

[shadow_fire]

Many Catholics who agree with the teachings of the Church will say this regarding gays. “Hate the sin, but love the sinners.” The Catechism of the Catholic Church states regarding homosexual individuals:

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

Why would I not have sex for my whole life just because of a theory like religion? and many catholics are quite homophobic to homosexuals some respond the way you said however.

I’m surprised I even looked back on this thread to this so if you want to respond PLEASE just pm me.

 

[Lively_Stone]

Why would I not have sex for my whole life just because of a theory like religion? and many catholics are quite homophobic to homosexuals some respond the way you said however.

I’m surprised I even looked back on this thread to this so if you want to respond PLEASE just pm me.

I agree withe manny’s response and I see nothing homophobic in it. Perhaps you could explain. He has given sound Biblical advice. What more could a Christian offer you. Remember you posted a public statement and now you want private answers. That is not logical if you are sure of your statements and are happy with the topic you brought to the forum.

Why would I not have sex for my whole life just because of a theory like religion?

My simple answer is so you won’t spend eternity in hell for a little fleshly pleasure during this short life. You may not even see tommorrow. You need to be prepared everyday as though it may be your last to meet the Lord Jesus who will judge us all. We all need salvation and Jesus. If gay sex is more important than God then it has become your God and you will be lost forever.

Everyone on the forum please remember to pray for this poor lost confused soul.

Prayer changes things and Jesus can give us all the strength to be overcomers, no matter what the circumstance.

 

[sam26]

I was Catholic but I’m not anymore and for a few good reasons.

1. I personally feel that Catholics raise Mary to a level that she doesn’t deserve to be. She was an extraordinary woman because she was chosen by God but she was anything but perfect. She never once proclaimed that she was anything special and would probably be very unhappy that people are saying prayers to her.
   When discussing that God has given her a gift through chosing her she says “For He has regarded the lowly state of his maidservant.” Also, jesus never acted in a way that indicated she was to be raised to such a high standard and if he didn’t think that then I dont know why we should.

Once when in a crowd someone had the idea of exalting Mary. She said “blessed is the womb that bore You.”
Jesus replied “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God, and observe it.” Luke 11:27-28 NASB
I think that says it all.

1. I dont like the idea of confession. I think that it is important to have a close group of people (a bible study or small group) to confide in to help keep you accountable of what you do. But I dont think it is necessary to profess to your sins to someone you barely even know. I really dont think that it is necessary. God can see into your heart and he knows if you’re sorry. The priest has no idea if you’re actually sorry or if you’re just going to feel better about yourself. On judgement day God is going to be the ones to forgive you of your sins… not a priest, so why isn’t He the one to forgive you of your sins now?
2. I dislike how condemning the church is. I feel like they pick and choose what they do or dont allow. How can they condemn homosexuality and not all the other sins. They aren’t telling people they can’t come to church because they lie or because they are gluttonous. (Harming your body through obesity or smoking is just as much as a sin as homosexuality. I’m probably going to get a lot of really mean responses because people dont want to hear that but its true. To God ALL sins are bad and they are all equal.) I am not saying that I agree with homosexuality because I dont. But people that sin (everybody) needs God’s forgiveness and saving grace. I personally don’t think that it is right for us or anyone to be condemning of others when we have so many flaws. How about the verse when Jesus comments about seeing the speck in someone elses eye when you have a plank in your own eye. God has shown so much mercy to us when we haven’t deserved it. I think it is our job as Christians (every denomination) to reflect God’s mercy and acceptance and show that to everyone… even if we don’t agree with what they do. It is important to uphold the values of the bible but that doesn’t mean that anyone has to condemn anyone else. We were forgiven when we didn’t deserve it so who are we to not forgive others?

 

[LilyM]

I was Catholic but I’m not anymore and for a few good reasons.

1. I personally feel that Catholics raise Mary to a level that she doesn’t deserve to be. She was an extraordinary woman because she was chosen by God but she was anything but perfect. She never once proclaimed that she was anything special and would probably be very unhappy that people are saying prayers to her.
   When discussing that God has given her a gift through chosing her she says “For He has regarded the lowly state of his maidservant.” Also, jesus never acted in a way that indicated she was to be raised to such a high standard and if he didn’t think that then I dont know why we should.

Once when in a crowd someone had the idea of exalting Mary. She said “blessed is the womb that bore You.”
Jesus replied “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God, and observe it.” Luke 11:27-28 NASB
I think that says it all.

WRONG WRONG WRONG! Go back to the original biblical languages - the word Christ said meant ‘additionally’ or ‘also’, not ‘on the contrary’. He was saying Mary was doubly blessed - both as his mother (and as a perfect keeper of the commandments of God he certainly would never dishonour her by suggesting she was a nobody) AND as someone who heard and kept God’s word - and no-one better!

1. I dont like the idea of confession. I think that it is important to have a close group of people (a bible study or small group) to confide in to help keep you accountable of what you do. But I dont think it is necessary to profess to your sins to someone you barely even know. I really dont think that it is necessary. God can see into your heart and he knows if you’re sorry. The priest has no idea if you’re actually sorry or if you’re just going to feel better about yourself. On judgement day God is going to be the ones to forgive you of your sins… not a priest, so why isn’t He the one to forgive you of your sins now?

He is - through the priest. He gave the power to the Apostles to forgive sins. Didn’t say they could only forgive the sins of those known personally to them. Obviously he intended that they would use it! Did they not have the power to pass on this gift as they did so man others? ‘What you bind on earth …’ shows that they did.

Are we less in need of this sort of authoritative pronouncement of God’s forgiveness today than they were in Apostolic times? Certainly not. And there is great benefit to the sinner in the humility it takes to confess in this way, and great comfort in hearing the words of absolution authoritatively pronounced as well. As a cradle Catholic who left the Church and for 10 years didn’t darken the door of a confessional, I know that I’ve made huge spiritual strides in the year or so that I’ve been back and confessing regularly.

We were forgiven when we didn’t deserve it so who are we to not forgive others?

Of course we forgive - we also call sin sin, as Christ did - in all areas of life - and we also remind people, as Christ did, of the necessity to ‘sin no more’ once they have been forgiven. We don’t condone, enable or tolerate sin. Neither did Christ himself.

 

[kujo313]

1. They actually found the tomb of Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene if you watched the tv. So there’s physical proof that they existed as humans.

-QUOTE]

You didn’t hear that there was DNA in there and none of it matched anybody else? Also, 25% of the women was named “Mary” and the Hebrew name for Joseph was the same as for Jesus. There’s another man mentioned in the Bible with the name “Jesus”.
Besides, how would you know if it’s actually Jesus’ DNA in there when nobody today claims to be His biological descendent? Also, DNA on the shroud of Turin does not match the DNA that was dug up.
That supposed “tomb” was found over a dozen years ago or so. Why make it public now?

 

[harmon3110]

I was Catholic but I’m not anymore

Some days, I feel on the verge of that myself.

and for a few good reasons.

1. I personally feel that Catholics raise Mary to a level that she doesn’t deserve to be.

I agree.

I witnessed a “may-crowning” ceremony at a Roman Catholic parish recently. Two children took a small wreath of flowers up to the altar, where there was a statue of Mary. Then, one of the children took the wreath and placed it on the statue’s head. All the while, the people sang a hymn in honor of her. It seemed like idolatry. (That was just before some of the First Communion girls got up and did a little dance during the offertory: they each held either a little loaf of bread or an empty goblet; and they twirled and did a little dance. They seemed to enjoy themselves, but it seemed more like a children’s school talent show than worship. But, I digress.)

I believe the Mother of God is worthy of veneration; she is Jesus’ mother. In a certain sense, I think she is therefore also our spiritual mother. And, I believe we can ask her (like anyone else) to pray for us.

Nevertheless, I often suspect the Roman Church of, in effect, substituting the Virgin Mary for the Holy Spirit. After Augustine reduced the Holy Spirit to a kind of by-product of love between the Father and the Son (instead of a Person who proceeds from the Father only), there didn’t seem to be much role for the Holy Spirit in the Western Church. Roman Catholics claim that is not true. Yet, have you ever noticed how infrequently the Three Persons of the Trinity --Father, Son and Holy Spirit-- are mentioned in the Roman Catholic Mass ? (I didn’t notice that till I attended the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, the usual form of worship in the Eastern rites of the Catholic Church and in the Orthodox Church.) Have you ever noticed, aside from Charismatics and Pentecostals, there is so little emphasis or even mindfulness of the Holy Spirit in the Western Church (Catholic or Protestant) ? Yet, people still feel the need to be connected to Jesus and sanctified. How? In the Roman Church, it seems that the job has been assigned to Mary. When I hear Roman Catholics say “to Jesus through Mary” it anymore just seems bizarre to me. That is what the Holy Spirit does.

1. I don’t like the idea of confession. Think that it is important to have a close group of people (a bible study or small group) to confide in to help keep you accountable of what you do. But I don’t think it is necessary to profess to your sins to someone you barely even know. I really don’t think that it is necessary.

I agree and I disagree.

On the one hand, I disagree: In certain circumstances, confession to a cleric can be very useful. For example, I think confession to Christ in the presence of a spiritual director can be very useful: for spiritual advice, staying accountable, etc. And, confessing to those whom we have hurt sometimes makes sense too. And, confessing certain public sins to the public or a representative of the public (like a priest) can also be good as a visible sign that a person is restored to full membership of the Church. Etc.

On the other hand, however, I think the idea of being required to confess every sin to a priest is ludicrous. Jesus, in discussing repentance, illustrated His point with the example of the tax collector who stood humbly in the back of the temple and saying, “Oh God, have mercy on me, a sinner.” No priest; just a repentant man and God. Jesus said that the man went home justified, i.e., his sins were forgiven. I think that is how it is. When a person genuinely repents from the heart, they are forgiven. Also, I think the attempt by the Roman Church to legalistically break down repentance into perfect contrition (an exceptional state of repentance, which doesn’t require a priest) and imperfect contrition (the normal state of repentance, which requires a priest to insure forgiveness and salvation) is superfluous. If a person repents, it is by God’s grace and the person’s choice and not the actions of a clergyperson.

1. I dislike how condemning the church is. I feel like they pick and choose what they do or don’t allow.

I dislike the legalistic mentality towards sin: if X is condemned in a papal document or the Catholic Catechism or (maybe) the Bible, it is a sin; and it must be condemned; or a person is doomed to hell. There is little emphasis on sin as a spiritual illness that must be cured by mercy, grace, and repentance. The exception is the Divine Mercy devotion. Otherwise, in the Roman Church, it seems that sin is emphasized as a crime which must be condemned by the conservatives or it is treated as “missing the mark” (whatever the heck that means) by the liberals.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Why would I not have sex for my whole life just because of a theory like religion? and many catholics are quite homophobic to homosexuals some respond the way you said however.

I’m surprised I even looked back on this thread to this so if you want to respond PLEASE just pm me.

It’s not a theory. The Bible specifically forbids Jewish people from having sex with individuals of the same sex. St.Paul tells Christians in his epistles, not to engage in unnatural unions. The homosexual act itself is one of the grave sin that destroyed Sodom and Gammorah. It is one of the gravious offenses against God. Individuals who have this tendency to such actions cannot practice it and must therefore remain chase or abstain from homosexual acts.

This teachings dates back to Biblical Times, and the Patristic (Early Church Fathers). It is condemned, the Church cannot condone it.

The fact that many of the homosexuals acts itself is unnatural. You said yourself you are gay. Tell me the purpose of a sexual male organ is primarily for that of a female. God did not create man to be with man.

Let me state what Jesus said in Matthew 19:4-6.

“Have ye not read, that he who made man from the beginning, Made them male and female? And he said: 5 For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be in one flesh.”

It doesn’t take a brilliant exegesis that in this passage God intended Man to be with a woman. In the beginning, he created them to together. The two indeed will become one flesh. The nature of human love produces life, offspring. The necessary for human survival of the species.

I might say you say that animals are homosexuals so its part of nature. No. God create man in His image, he gave us intellect to know right and wrong. Our destiny is far greater than that of mere cat or dogs.

Homosexuality, fornication, adultery, and all sorts of impurity are not approved in the Bible nor the traditions of the Church. Nothing impure can enter into heaven, unless he repents and accepts the mercy of God.

Homosexuality and all other sexual immortality is selfish love. It calls the individual to turn sex into a habit, a recreation so to speak because it feels good. Love my friend is sacrifical love. The willingness to give one’s own life for his beloved. The willingness to desire heaven for his love. That is true love.

Homosexuality is what I called eros love not egape love (brotherly love. From what I seem in the homosexual culture in NYC, the parades, the gays and lesbians display acts very unpleasing to the viewers. They were sexually provacative clothing by showing skin, and show kissing. This perverted love is not something that is pure.

It is impure. It cannot be accepted and thus homosexual individuals should stop their way of life. God did not intended man and man to lovers, or woman and woman. He created male and female. Jesus said this, and he did not say he created male and male. Jesus said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be in one flesh."

If you wish to desire heaven give up this homosexual lifestyle. It is a grave offense against God. It has been since the beginning.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I was Catholic but I’m not anymore and for a few good reasons.

1. I personally feel that Catholics raise Mary to a level that she doesn’t deserve to be. She was an extraordinary woman because she was chosen by God but she was anything but perfect. She never once proclaimed that she was anything special and would probably be very unhappy that people are saying prayers to her.
   When discussing that God has given her a gift through chosing her she says “For He has regarded the lowly state of his maidservant.” Also, jesus never acted in a way that indicated she was to be raised to such a high standard and if he didn’t think that then I dont know why we should.

You have all your misconception about Mary all distorted, especially what the Catholic Church actually teaches on Mary.

The Catholic Church does not levitate Mary above God if that what you assumed. There no official Church document that put Mary above God. The Church honors Mary because of her relationship to Jesus as His Mother.

Mary is very special. She gave birth to God incarnate. Gabriel greeted her, Hail Full of Grace, the Lord is with you. Her cousin Elizabeth filled with the Holy Spirit said, “Blessed are you amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.” Mary also filled with the Holy Spirit said, “My soul magnify the greatest of the Lord… She also said. All Generation will call me Blessed. You often heard Catholics call her Blessed Mother. Orthodox Christians called her the Theotokos, Mother of God in Greek or God Bearer (a title she earn to defend Jesus’ divinity; Council of Ephesus 425 AD).

Mary consisted to God’s will. Though she did not understand, she reply. “Be it done onto me according to your word.” And So Jesus became flesh and became a part of her. The living God dwell in Mary’s womb for a period of 9 months. She became a living tabernacle, a type of Ark because she called the Word of God made flesh. When Jesus said, “Blessed are those who hear the word of God and observed it.” This describes Mary. She heard the Word of God and kept it because if she had not consisted, Jesus would not be with us. At the beginning of Jesus life she was there with Jesus for 30 yrs up until his death at the cross. She remained with her son, while other disciples fled except John. Truly, if Jesus said anything disrespecting his mother, he would break the Ten Commandments by breaking “Honor thy mother and thy father.” Jesus remain obedient with his parents. As Luke’s Gospel state, he was obedient with them and grow in wisdom. Jesus loved his mother, he does not hate her nor dishonor her. Mary remain obedient to her son because she said. “Do whatever he tells you” in the Miracle of Cana.

 

[Mannyfit75]

1. I dont like the idea of confession. I think that it is important to have a close group of people (a bible study or small group) to confide in to help keep you accountable of what you do. But I dont think it is necessary to profess to your sins to someone you barely even know. I really dont think that it is necessary. God can see into your heart and he knows if you’re sorry. The priest has no idea if you’re actually sorry or if you’re just going to feel better about yourself. On judgement day God is going to be the ones to forgive you of your sins… not a priest, so why isn’t He the one to forgive you of your sins now?

The Rite of Confession is very Biblical. Jesus after his resurrection came upon the Apostles. He breathed on them. “Received the Holy Spirit, whosoever sin you forgiven, they are forgiven, whosoever sins you retain, they are retain.” This gift was granted to the Apostles, and then to their successors, the bishops, up to the present day.

In fact in the rite of confession the priest forgive in the Name of Jesus.

God, the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of his Son has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

He does not forgive the sins in his own name because Man cannot forgive sins. He invokes God by reciting, “In the Name of the Father, and Of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Just as St. Paul said, In Jesus’ Name sins are forgiven.” This is rightly so in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. The priest is merely an instrument of God’s mercy and it is God’s grace that sins are forgiven.

I hope this clear up any misconception you. If you have any questions, pm me.

 

[kujo313]

You have all your misconception about Mary all distorted, especially what the Catholic Church actually teaches on Mary.

The Catholic Church does not levitate Mary above God if that what you assumed. There no official Church document that put Mary above God. The Church honors Mary because of her relationship to Jesus as His Mother.

Mary is very special. She gave birth to God incarnate. Gabriel greeted her, Hail Full of Grace, the Lord is with you. Her cousin Elizabeth filled with the Holy Spirit said, “Blessed are you amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.” Mary also filled with the Holy Spirit said, “My soul magnify the greatest of the Lord… She also said. All Generation will call me Blessed. You often heard Catholics call her Blessed Mother. Orthodox Christians called her the Theotokos, Mother of God in Greek or God Bearer (a title she earn to defend Jesus’ divinity; Council of Ephesus 425 AD).

Mary consisted to God’s will. Though she did not understand, she reply. “Be it done onto me according to your word.” And So Jesus became flesh and became a part of her. The living God dwell in Mary’s womb for a period of 9 months. She became a living tabernacle, a type of Ark because she called the Word of God made flesh. When Jesus said, “Blessed are those who hear the word of God and observed it.” This describes Mary. She heard the Word of God and kept it because if she had not consisted, Jesus would not be with us. At the beginning of Jesus life she was there with Jesus for 30 yrs up until his death at the cross. She remained with her son, while other disciples fled except John. Truly, if Jesus said anything disrespecting his mother, he would break the Ten Commandments by breaking “Honor thy mother and thy father.” Jesus remain obedient with his parents. As Luke’s Gospel state, he was obedient with them and grow in wisdom. Jesus loved his mother, he does not hate her nor dishonor her. Mary remain obedient to her son because she said. “Do whatever he tells you” in the Miracle of Cana.

You just proved his point. ALL Spirit-filled believers carry the Holy Spirit. Out of believers’ bellies shall flow rivers of living water.
Out of the mouths of catholics, you’d hear “SHE did this” or “Because of HER”. Some catholics proclaim that you have to go through Mary to get to Jesus. (Had to say “some” because some say that while others don’t.)
You quoted the Council of Ephesus from 425 AD saying that Mary earned a title. She only said “yes”. We can accept Jesus the same way: by simply saying “yes”.

There is all the emphasis on what Mary did and not what the Holy Spirit did. Sure the Holy Spirit IS mentioned but not adored, honored, idolized, worshipped as much as Mary is.
It is only OUTSIDE the catholic religion that the Holy Spirit is given more adoration than Mary.

 

[Mannyfit75]

1. I dislike how condemning the church is. I feel like they pick and choose what they do or dont allow. How can they condemn homosexuality and not all the other sins. They aren’t telling people they can’t come to church because they lie or because they are gluttonous. (Harming your body through obesity or smoking is just as much as a sin as homosexuality. I’m probably going to get a lot of really mean responses because people dont want to hear that but its true. To God ALL sins are bad and they are all equal.) I am not saying that I agree with homosexuality because I dont. But people that sin (everybody) needs God’s forgiveness and saving grace. I personally don’t think that it is right for us or anyone to be condemning of others when we have so many flaws. How about the verse when Jesus comments about seeing the speck in someone elses eye when you have a plank in your own eye. God has shown so much mercy to us when we haven’t deserved it. I think it is our job as Christians (every denomination) to reflect God’s mercy and acceptance and show that to everyone… even if we don’t agree with what they do. It is important to uphold the values of the bible but that doesn’t mean that anyone has to condemn anyone else. We were forgiven when we didn’t deserve it so who are we to not forgive others?

The Church isn’t condemning. She is only condemning the immorality of sin that has plague mankind. Homosexual acts are not only condemned. There are others that the Catholic Church condemns like abortion, fornication, pornography, contraception, euthanasia (mercy killing), embryonic stem cell research (which invokes the destruction of fetus), adultery, and masturbation. Other issues such as glutonous and excessive use of is dangerous and all these are stated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I think you should read. I think you don’t have an idea what the Church teaches based on your post.

The Church and any morally right Christian would condemned the sins which I have mentioned. We need to correct these immorality and tell people to convert their hearts to God who is the God of Mercies. I can go on with the details to explain why the Church teaches what it does. She is the authority to teach moral and faith issue because the Holy Spirit preserves her and guides her. It is the Holy Spirit that the soul of the Church, the divine nature of the Church

 

[Mannyfit75]

You just proved his point. ALL Spirit-filled believers carry the Holy Spirit. Out of believers’ bellies shall flow rivers of living water.
Out of the mouths of catholics, you’d hear “SHE did this” or “Because of HER”. Some catholics proclaim that you have to go through Mary to get to Jesus. (Had to say “some” because some say that while others don’t.)
You quoted the Council of Ephesus from 425 AD saying that Mary earned a title. She only said “yes”. We can accept Jesus the same way: by simply saying “yes”.

There is all the emphasis on what Mary did and not what the Holy Spirit did. Sure the Holy Spirit IS mentioned but not adored, honored, idolized, worshipped as much as Mary is.
It is only OUTSIDE the catholic religion that the Holy Spirit is given more adoration than Mary.

Mary is not idolized, I have answered to the best of my ability and ask you to understand. Second, you have not cited any official Church document from the Magisterium that put her above God. The honor given to her is the fact is her relationship with Jesus. Second, the center of worship of the Catholic Church is Jesus because in the Catholic Mass, we offer Jesus Christ to God, who we believe is the Truly present Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity in the Eucharist. If you say Catholics worship Mary and we don’t then why didn’t we offer Mary as a sacrifice. I truly believe you have distorted opinions regarding Marian teachings in the Catholic Church.

The source and submit of the Church is Jesus. Mary is only given the honor because she is the Mother of God. The title Mother of God was in response to the heresy of Nestorianism which denied Jesus’ divinity. Jesus is God, Mary is the Mother of Jesus. Therefore Mary is the Mother of God.

 

[Mannyfit75]

kujo,

This what the Council of Ephesus said against Nestorianism in 431 AD

The Epistle of Cyril to Nestorius(“Intelligo quosdam meæ”)
To the most religious and beloved of God, fellow minister Nestorius, Cyril sends greeting in the Lord.

I hear that some are rashly talking of the estimation in which I hold your holiness, and that this is frequently the case especially at the times that meetings are held of those in authority. And perchance they think in so doing to say something agreeable to you, but they speak senselessly, for they have suffered no injustice at my hands, but have been exposed by me only to their profit; this man as an oppressor of the blind and needy, and that as one who wounded his mother with a sword. Another because he stole, in collusion with his waiting maid, another’s money, and had always laboured under the imputation of such like crimes as no one would wish even one of his bitterest enemies to be laden with. I take little reckoning of the words of such people, for the disciple is not above his Master, nor would I stretch the measure of my narrow brain above the Fathers, for no matter what path of life one pursues it is hardly possible to escape the smirching of the wicked, whose mouths are full of cursing and bitterness, and who at the last must give an account to the Judge of all.

But I return to the point which especially I had in mind. And now I urge you, as a brother in the Lord, to propose the word of teaching and the doctrine of the faith with all accuracy to the people, and to consider that the giving of scandal to one even of the least of those who believe in Christ, exposes a body to the unbearable indignation of God. And of how great diligence and skill there is need when the multitude of those grieved is so great, so that we may administer the healing word of truth to them that seek it. But this we shall accomplish most excellently if we shall turn over the words of the holy Fathers, and are zealous to obey their commands, proving ourselves, whether we be in the faith according to that which is written, and conform our thoughts to their upright and irreprehensible teaching.