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kujo313
Guest
Ain’t looking. I’m pretty sure that all denominations are like yours who’d say that their was is THE way. Just like you can mention somebody to agree with you, I can find somebody else who’d agree with me.Here go to the source (Vatican) to learn what the Church teaches about prayer, Jesus, Mary and quit wasting your time with Google Searches. Everything you ever wanted to know what the Church is teaching can be found there.
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
CHRISTIAN PRAYER There are 50 plus sections on prayer, so don’t stop at the first link to get a full understanding of the Church’s teaching on prayer.
Christ Jesus – "Mediator and Fullness of All Revelation"
"CONCEIVED BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AND BORN OF THE VIRGIN MARY"
Here is what *Timothy George, an ordained minister in the Southern Baptist Convention, and the dean of Beeson Divinity School of Samford University has to say about Mary, not all non-Catholics feel the way that you do about Mary - *Evangelicals and the Mother of God
Oh, one question, have you ever kissed your Bible?
You can hold onto the promises that “Mary” made through a rosary which is anti-Scripture and anti-Christ. I’ll just stick with the Salvation through Jesus, the only Way.
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mexilad
Guest
I mean not to be disrespectful or hurtful to wnyone. I would like to share something I learned along my journey of faith, which I am still upon. Refusing to be a member of the Catholic Church for being filled with sinners, is like an alcoholic refusing to go to AA because it is full of drunks.
We are all working on issues. We all sin, nobody is perfect. We should not be in such shock and awe when people prove these things, be they lay Catholic or clergy.
Just my two cents. God bless you all.
We are all working on issues. We all sin, nobody is perfect. We should not be in such shock and awe when people prove these things, be they lay Catholic or clergy.
Just my two cents. God bless you all.
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Bennie_P
Guest
I not trying to convert you, I’m just asking you to find out what we really believe and teach, not what you have been told what we believe. Is that an unreasonable request from a fellow Christian to another?
Just look at the contents of the Catechism, you will only see one section from the Creed about Mary."CONCEIVED BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AND BORN OF THE VIRGIN MARY"
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Syele
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Wow this thread is long… I didn’t read all 46 pages.Could you please list 3 reasons why you are not Catholic and elaborate.
Thanks… God bless…
Three reasons:
- I can’t agree with the Catholic view of Justification/Sanctification.
- Apostolic Succession/Papal infallibility
- Really just those other two but to come up with a third… There is no Charismatic Catholic Parish anywhere near my location.
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guanophore
Guest
Yes, and man put the Bible together too, inspired by the HS. If praying the rosary is not life giving for you, there is no obligation to do so. If it is more life giving for you to use spontaneous prayer, more power to you! Why criticize the prayer of others? DId Jesus teach you that?
Well, I am glad to see that you acknowledge Jesus loved His mother. I am not sure what you mean by the other part. Are you saying that you do not pray the scriptures, or that you don’ think Jesus did so, or taught us to do so, or that the source of the prayer is not scripture?
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LilyM
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JPII also used to kiss, hug and sing to Jesus in the Eucharist - when he was housed in a tabernacle or displayed in a monstrance. EVERY Tabernacle in EVERY Catholic church is a shrine to Jesus, and more than a shrine - we believe he is truly and really present in each of 'em 24 hours a day 7 days a week. We don’t think the same of ANY Marian shrine.
I’m sure you hug your mother too - and your father, siblings, friends, your dog. Do you ever get any of these people confused with each other because you hug them all? Didn’t think so.
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guanophore
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Is there another Church that Jesus founded that we don’t know about?
No one on this thread, and no one in the Catholic Church has ever said that Mary is our saviour, or that she does anything alone (apart from Christ)
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guanophore
Guest
Is there another Church that Jesus founded that we don’t know about?
No one on this thread, and no one in the Catholic Church has ever said that Mary is our saviour, or that she does anything alone (apart from Christ).
It appears that you are not well educated in Catholicism, kujo, if you think these words are not taught. Who do you think brought you these words? How did you think they were preserved for the first 1500 years, before the reformers discovered them? Just because the meanings of them were twisted, does not mean they are not, and were not used.
We don’t have such a limited understanding of grace, kujo. We understand that Jesus became man so that we could become God. He wants us to partake of His divine nature. He wants us to share in his sufferings, and in the power of His resurrection. Sharing our prayers with others who have the same faith is one way of participating in His divine mission. Mary demonstrated what it means to be “full of grace”. Where fullness of grace exists, sin cannot exist. This is the promise of heaven. It can be lived right here on earth, as Mary did. She gave us the perfect example of humility and submission. She teaches us “let it be done to me according to Thy will”.
If you don’t wish to honor her good example, or share in the benefits of grace as she did, that is your choice. Why berate those of us that do?
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guanophore
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Oh my lands! Now I have heard EVERYTHING!!
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Goth_Catholic
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Last time I checked, it was THE true church.
Mary alone? No. Intercession and prayer, yes. I have never once heard anyone within the Catholic church say that Mary is the source of salvation.
As far as the rosary and the scaplur. “Through the rosary and the Scapular, I will save the world” Blessed Virgin to St. Dominic
“Blessed are those who belive without seeing”
The devils revealed to Francis of yepes, the brother of St. John of the Cross, that three things especially tormented them. The first is the Name of Jesus; the second, the Name of Mary, and the third, the Brown Scapular of our Lady of Mt. Carmel. “Take off that habit,” they cried to him, “which snatches so many souls from us. All those clothed in it die piously and escape us.”
Don’t bother praying for me. My soul is in trusting hands. Pray for your own soul. And pray for your eyes to opened.
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guanophore
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What is that view, exactly?Wow this thread is long… I didn’t read all 46 pages.
Three reasons:
- I can’t agree with the Catholic view of Justification/Sanctification.
Do you not think that the apostles chose successors for themselves?
- Really just those other two but to come up with a third… There is no Charismatic Catholic Parish anywhere near my location.
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Goth_Catholic
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Oh lord, HERE
prayrosary.com/rosaryscapular/history.php3
In the times before St. Dominic we can see that the, Paternosters, (The Lord’s Prayer) was prayed, and we know from history that during St. Dominic’s time The Lord’s Prayer and Our Lady’s Psalter, (The Hail Mary) were prayed on pebbles, or a string of beads.
St. Dominic, seeing that the gravity of people’s sins was hindering the conversion of the Albigensians, withdrew into a forest near Toulouse where he prayed unceasingly for three days and three nights. During this time he did nothing but weep and do harsh penance’s in order to appease the anger of Almighty God.
Our Lady appeared to him while he prayed. She spoke to him gently that day in the forest.
“My son,” the Queen of Heaven said, “prayer and penance are the only way to win souls. Pray my Psalter and teach it to your people. That prayer, will never fail.”
“Our Lady’s Psalter? The Hail Mary one hundred and fifty times? That is not a new prayer,” Brother Dominic said to himself.
He frequently prayed the Psalter as he walked along the road. Many people did. Those who could not read Holy Scripture and those who could not understand it often said a Hail Mary for each of the Psalms. Their simple prayer took the place of the one hundred and fifty Psalms of David that the learned ones could read.
Counting prayers was not new either before the birth of Jesus, the people who belonged to ancient religions had counted on knotted cords the prayers they said to their gods. After the coming of our Lord, the hermits who lived in the desert in the early centuries counted their prayers to God by means of pebbles.
Even in his own time, the thirteenth century, Brother Dominic knew that people were using a string of beads called “paternosters.” On these they counted the number of times they repeated the Lord’s Prayer. What did our Lady mean?
The Blessed Mother knew that Brother Dominic was puzzled. It was then that she taught him the way she wanted the Psalter said, the prayer that was to become her Rosary.
"Make clear to them the mysteries of their religion, the divine truths that God has revealed but that they cannot understand. **Teach them to picture in their minds the events of my Sons life. **Teach them to see as I saw the joys that came into the world with the Annunciation. Recall to them the words of the Angel Gabriel when he announced to me, a Virgin, that I was to be the Mother of the Savior.
"‘Hail, full of grace. The Lord is with thee.’
"Let them journey with me to my cousin Elizabeth and hear, as I heard, her words of welcome,
“‘Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.’”
The Holy Spirit had let her know that her Child was the One who would redeem men from their sins.
“Teach them to picture the stable in Bethlehem where Christ the Lord was born.”
The Blessed Mother smiled as though she were seeing again the little Lord Jesus in His first cradle.
“Let them walk with Joseph and me when we take the Baby to the great Temple in Jerusalem to receive the blessing of Almighty God. Make them rejoice with us when we find the Holy Child who was lost for three long days.”
Then a sadness came over the Blessed Mother as she recalled the sorrows she had shared with her Son. Brother Dominic thought of the Garden of Gethsemane. He wept as he pictured the drops of blood and the sweat on the Savior’s face when He beheld the sins of the world.
Brother Dominic had often meditated on the Scourging at the Pillar, for he had chosen the lash of the whip as his own frequent penance. He thought of the crown of thorns which the mocking soldiers had placed upon the head of Christ the King, the heavy Cross which He carried wearily up the long hill to Calvary. Brother Dominic saw them all as Mary had.
He raised his tear-filled eyes to the Blessed Mother. How had she stood so bravely beneath the Cross of her crucified Son? She had shared with Him all of His joys, sorrows, and pain, and the glory of His triumph over death. How well had God prepared her to be the understanding Mother of all mankind!
Blessed Virgin appeared to St. Simon Stock in the year 1251, and, holding a scapular of the Order of Mount Carmel said, “Receive My beloved son, the Scapular of thy Order, as a distinctive sign of My Confraternity. Whoever dies invested with this Scapular shall be preserved from the eternal flames. It is a sign of salvation, a sure safeguard in danger, a pledge of peace and of My special protection until the end of the ages.”
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kujo313
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Very good one. However, a large amount of people on a bus going the wrong way does not make all of the people on the bus correct.
The RCC is like taking the bus on a journey fromt Detroit to Chicago instead of a train. The bus makes pit stops on the way while the train heads straight there. The “bus” is the RCC who petition Mary and the “saints” to intercede for them. The “train” are those who boldly go to God in the Name of Jesus.
The real problem here is that God is in Chicago and He’s telling the people in Detroit that the Train is the only Way to Him. Meanwhile, the “bus” looks at the “Map” and the route of those who went before them and said that it’s the only way.
The Creator of the route and the Author of the Map says that the Train is the only Way to our endpoint and it doesn’t make pit-stops. Somehow in the history of the route, the passangers decided to make pitstops on the way and admire the scenery.
The Author of the Map says to keep our eye on the finish line, the goal!
You “bus” people need to honor and respect us “train” passengers and not insist that we’re all wrong and that only you are right. That is not the case.
Just a point.
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Syele
Guest
heh large question you fit in only 5 words.
You can read about Catholic Justification here and here. Check out Canons XVIII, XXIV Sorry, I’m too sleepy to go into it tonight maybe tomorrow if you have a specific question. :yawn:
They did choose successors, but the authority they conferred upon themselves in the process was not warranted. Some authority? Yes. Being able to issue infallible statements? no way. I also do not believe that the office they were succeeding is how it is today.
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kujo313
Guest
“what we really believe and teach”?I not trying to convert you, I’m just asking you to find out what we really believe and teach, not what you have been told what we believe. Is that an unreasonable request from a fellow Christian to another?
"CONCEIVED BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AND BORN OF THE VIRGIN MARY"
It took hundreds of years to get from “conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary” to “Queen” of this and that and “Mother of God”.
Doesn’t that sound like going a “little” of course?
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kujo313
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Jesus said that He came to devide families. He also said that those who love their mother or father more than Him ain’t worthy of Him.
Sure I loved my parents. They was devout Catholics for most of their lives. My dad got saved two days before he died. My mom accepted Jesus as her Savior a few months after that. She died 16 months after my dad did.
I was in agreence with my siblings. One of them got kicked out of the house because he got “born again” like Jesus said to do so.
Now, over two dozen members of my family are saved.
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LilyM
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You think the Council fathers of Ephesus made that up the title of Mother of God the day before it was declared dogma? When the Assumption was believed for AT LEAST 1,500 years before it was so declared, and the Immaculate Conception debated on and off similarly for a good 800 years beforehand? You show an incredible ignorance over how these Marian doctrines have come about.
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LilyM
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And you love your mother more than your father? More than your siblings? More than Jesus? More than God?
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kujo313
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Because those who do are the ones that invite us onto these threads just to tell us over and over again that we’re not right for doing what we do and believing what we believe.
Every day, we’re all full of grace, too. All of us. Instead of honoring a person’s example, why not just simply honor Jesus’ example seeing that He wants us to be like Him? Why go “out of the box”?
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