Name one Catholic teaching that contradicts Scripture

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carol_marie said:
OK, I’m sort of afraid I’m going to get beat up here… but you asked so please be nice…

I don’t think that Mary remaining sinless is supported biblically and I believe a good argument could be made against it w/ “ALL have sinned & fall short of the glory of God.” And I know this has been addressed in a kajillion threads already… It is my opinion that this is one of those issues that we accept because the Church says so… (which I do) but I would be hard pressed to support it using the Bible.
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The context of that versus St. Paul is referring to is “nations” not individuals.
 
Valke2 said:
I don’t believe they are praying to their children or husbands.
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Similarly with what jon posted, pray has come to have a very narrow meaning today in most people’s minds and usage. Catholic Christians do not believe we are praying to the saints in the narrow meaning you apply to pray and prayer.

Pray used to (and still does within the Catholic Church) be understood by all to mean simply to ask earnestly. This of course has narrowed today by most non-Catholic christians to

Pray=to ask God.

This however, has not always been the case. As you can see below from Dictionary.com, even today, definitions are included that below that reflect the use of the word pray in the way Catholics use the word “pray to the saints”. #4 is the most applicable in relation to prayer to the saints in my opinion.

pray http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngcache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif/preɪ/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciationprey]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
*–verb (used with object) *
1.to offer devout petition, praise, thanks, etc., to (God or an object of worship).
2.to offer (a prayer).
3.to bring, put, etc., by praying: *to pray a soul into heaven. *
4.to make earnest petition to (a person).
5.to make petition or entreaty for; crave: *She prayed his forgiveness. *
6.to offer devout petition, praise, thanks, etc., to God or to an object of worship.
7.to enter into spiritual communion with God or an object of worship through prayer. –verb (used without object)
8.to make entreaty or supplication, as to a person or for a thing.

The word prayer is the same way, # 7 being that it is simply a petition or entreaty. Prayers under this defintion can be offered to people as well as God.

prayer1 http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngcache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif/prɛər/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciationprair]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
*–noun *
1.a devout petition to God or an object of worship.
2.a spiritual communion with God or an object of worship, as in supplication, thanksgiving, adoration, or confession.
3.the act or practice of praying to God or an object of worship. 4.a formula or sequence of words used in or appointed for praying: *the Lord’s Prayer. *
5.**prayers, **a religious observance, either public or private, consisting wholly or mainly of prayer.
6.that which is prayed for.
7.a petition; entreaty.
8.the section of a bill in equity, or of a petition, that sets forth the complaint or the action desired.
9.a negligible hope or chance: *Do you think he has a prayer of getting that job? *

God bless,
Maria
 
MariaG, I’m a catholic as well and would hate to see you leave, but I’ll challenge you on another topic. This topic has been gone over before but, the commandment says to Remember the Sabbath and keep it…Saturday is the Sabbath. I know the appostles met on Sundays, but they still went to temple on Sat. Also , (pardon the paraphrase) Heaven and earth will pass away but the law will never change. I’m no 7th day, but I think they may have a point here.
 
Swamp_Yankee said:
MariaG, I’m a catholic as well and would hate to see you leave, but I’ll challenge you on another topic. This topic has been gone over before but, the commandment says to Remember the Sabbath and keep it…Saturday is the Sabbath. I know the appostles met on Sundays, but they still went to temple on Sat. Also , (pardon the paraphrase) Heaven and earth will pass away but the law will never change. I’m no 7th day, but I think they may have a point here.
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Hey Swamp Yankee,

Welcome to the forums.

I was just getting offline when I noticed your post. So forgive me for the brevity and not using my own words, but I am going to refer you to an article.

Maybe you could read it and bring back snippets that you disagree with or find that your objections have been settled;)

Let me know and again, WELCOME!

From Sabbath to Sunday
How the Church Moved Its Holy Day
By James P. Guzek

God Bless,
Maria
 
MariaG said:
Pray used to (and still does within the Catholic Church) be understood by all to mean simply to ask earnestly. This of course has narrowed today by most non-Catholic christians to

Pray=to ask God.

This however, has not always been the case. As you can see below from Dictionary.com, even today, definitions are included that below that reflect the use of the word pray in the way Catholics use the word “pray to the saints”. #4 is the most applicable in relation to prayer to the saints in my opinion.

pray
4.to make earnest petition to (a person).
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Interestingly, the American legal system also uses pray in the #4 sense, so it’s not just Catholics. In legal filings, when you ask the court for a specific judgment, you word it as “The plaintiff prays for…”
 
MaryG, thanks for the info. You’ll get no more arguments from me.
 
Wampa said:
Interestingly, the American legal system also uses pray in the #4 sense, so it’s not just Catholics. In legal filings, when you ask the court for a specific judgment, you word it as “The plaintiff prays for…”
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Didn’t know that. Thanks for another groups that currently uses that kind of language ( I knew about Great Britin and calling judges “Your worship”) but I didn’t know that the court systme uses pray in this manner.

Thanks!
 
Swamp_Yankee said:
MariaG, I’m a catholic as well and would hate to see you leave, but I’ll challenge you on another topic. This topic has been gone over before but, the commandment says to Remember the Sabbath and keep it…Saturday is the Sabbath. I know the appostles met on Sundays, but they still went to temple on Sat. Also , (pardon the paraphrase) Heaven and earth will pass away but the law will never change. I’m no 7th day, but I think they may have a point here.
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So you admit the Catholic Church changed the day of worship and you know the sabbath is the seventh day of the week not the first.

So you know the truth and are rejecting it?
 
MariaG said:
Didn’t know that. Thanks for another groups that currently uses that kind of language ( I knew about Great Britin and calling judges “Your worship”) but I didn’t know that the court systme uses pray in this manner.

Thanks!
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I thought the term was “Your honor” or is it me lud?
 
RCCDefender said:
“to argue that Jesus first blesses Peter for having received divine revelation from the Father, then diminishes him by calling him a small pebble, and then builds him up again by giving him the keys to the kingdom of heaven is entirely illogical, and a gross manipulation of the text to avoid the truth of Peter’s leadership in the Church. This is a three-fold blessing of Peter - you are blessed, you are the rock on which I will build my Church, and you will receive the keys to the kingdom of heaven (not you are blessed for receiving Revelation, but you are still an insignificant little pebble, and yet I am going to give you the keys to the kingdom).”

"to further rebut the notion that Jesus was calling Peter a small pebble, Simon in Aramaic means “grain of sand.” If Simon’s name meant “grain of sand,” it would be pointless for Jesus to change his name from “grain of sand” to “pebble.”

Aramaic also has a word for “little rock, or pebble”. This word is Evna. In His native language, if Jesus meant to call Peter a “small rock or pebble” then he would have called Him “evna”. But He doesn’t, He clearly gave Peter the name of “Kephas”. (phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=36950)

Furthermore, to say that the rock was Peter’s confession doesn’t make any sense grammatically. Grammatically, this rock must refer back to the nearest noun, which would be Peter and not hie confession of faith.

Hat tip: scriturecatholic.com and Surprised By Truth by Patrick Madrid
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Does Peter decide who gets into heaven?

And is Peter still dead and buried awaiting the resurrection?
 
The church was not built on Peter. You are misunderstanding the Scriptures.

He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Matthew 16:15-19

Jesus asks them who they think he is and Peter answers for the group and he says he is Christ, the Son of God and Jesus says to Peter you could not know this unless my Father has revealed it to you and then he says based on the statement that Jesus is the Son of God he will build his church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

Peter doesn’t decide who gets into heaven and who goes to hell.

What if the scripture was translated this way?

That thou art Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my church.
 
daro2096 said:
The church was not built on Peter. You are misunderstanding the Scriptures.

He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Matthew 16:15-19

Jesus asks them who they think he is and Peter answers for the group and he says he is Christ, the Son of God and Jesus says to Peter you could not know this unless my Father has revealed it to you and then he says based on the statement that Jesus is the Son of God he will build his church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

Peter doesn’t decide who gets into heaven and who goes to hell.

What if the scripture was translated this way?

That thou art Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my church.
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If I was talking to you daro, and knowing in my mind I was about to tell you I was founding my church, why would I say to you “You are daro”?

Do you ever have a conversation with somebody and in the middle of it tell them what their name is?

No.

Neither was Jesus. He was stating out loud Peter’s name, as in Aramaic it is the same word as rock.

Jesus was making it known that He was building His church upon Peter.

It was no coincidence when Jesus changed Peter’s name when He first took him in as a disciple, to a name that also meant rock.

Also, if it is as you say, where was this “rock” Jesus was referring to then??
 
kellie said:
If I was talking to you daro, and knowing in my mind I was about to tell you I was founding my church, why would I say to you “You are daro”?

Do you ever have a conversation with somebody and in the middle of it tell them what their name is?

No.

Neither was Jesus. He was stating out loud Peter’s name, as in Aramaic it is the same word as rock.

Jesus was making it known that He was building His church upon Peter.

It was no coincidence when Jesus changed Peter’s name when He first took him in as a disciple, to a name that also meant rock.

Also, if it is as you say, where was this “rock” Jesus was referring to then??
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Jesus is the Rock. He is the Stone that smites the image of Daniel 2.

Peter isn’t the rock of the church. Peter means little rock. Jesus was saying You are a little rock and on this Rock I will build my church.
 
daro2096 said:
Jesus is the Rock. He is the Stone that smites the image of Daniel 2.

Peter isn’t the rock of the church. Peter means little rock. Jesus was saying You are a little rock and on this Rock I will build my church.
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So why would Jesus tell Peter he was only the little rock?
 
kellie said:
So why would Jesus tell Peter he was only the little rock?
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And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter(Petros), and upon this rock(petra) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Petros {pet’-ros}
Peter = “a rock or a stone”
  1. one of the twelve disciples of Jesus
    Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 162
    AV - Peter 161, stone 1; 162
petra {pet’-ra}
  1. a rock, cliff or ledge
    a) a projecting rock, crag, rocky ground
    b) a rock, a large stone
    c) metaph. a man like a rock, by reason of his firmness and strength of soul
    Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 16
    AV - rock 16; 16
Jesus was saying on this rock will I build my church. Peter is not the foundation of the church. Jesus is the foundation.
 
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