Name one Catholic teaching that contradicts Scripture

[JoshuaJ]

Mary is held in high esteem within the Catholic church. I find the following interesting in light of how highly she is held.

Luke 11:27-28 “And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea, rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.”

Matthew 12:47-50 “Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, **Behold my mother ** and my brethren! For whosover shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same **is my ** brother, and sister, and mother.”

 

[Mickey]

JoshuaJ:

Mary is held in high esteem within the Catholic church. I find the following interesting in light of how highly she is held.

Luke 11:27-28 “And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea, rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.”

Matthew 12:47-50 “Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, **Behold my mother **and my brethren! For whosover shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same **is my **brother, and sister, and mother.”

What is your point?
Both of these passages give honor to His mother. Hear my Word and Keep it. Sound familiar? Mary said “YES” at the Annuciation.
Do the will of my Father. Sound familiar? Mary agreed to be the mother of God the Son.

She is the model Christian. We are to emulate her obedience to God.

 

[Eden]

JoshuaJ:

Mary is held in high esteem within the Catholic church. I find the following interesting in light of how highly she is held.

Luke 11:27-28 “And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea, rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.”

Matthew 12:47-50 “Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, **Behold my mother **and my brethren! For whosover shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same **is my **brother, and sister, and mother.”

This is a common misinterpretation by Protestants. This has been answered many times before. Jesus is not rebuking His mother. He is saying that she is to be even more esteemed for saying “Yes” to God than simply for her biological role as His mother. This is not a remark disparaging his mother, in fact it’s the opposite.

Luke 11:28 - when Jesus says, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it,” some Protestants also call this a rebuke of Mary. Again, to the contrary, Jesus is exalting Mary by emphasizing her obedience to God’s word as being more critical than her biological role of mother. This affirms Luke 1:48.

Luke 11:28 - also, the Greek word for “rather” is “menounge.” Menounge really means “Yes, but in addition,” or “Further.” Thus, Jesus is saying, yes my mother is blessed indeed, but further blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it. Jesus is encouraging others to follow Mary’s example in order to build up His kingdom.

Luke 11:27-28 - finally, Jesus is the one being complimented, not Mary. Therefore, Jesus is refocusing the attention from Him to others who obey the word of God. If He is refocusing the attention away from Him to others, His comment cannot be a rebuke of Mary His mother.

Matt. 12:48; Mark 3:33; Luke 8:21 - when Jesus asks, “Who are my mother, and sisters and brothers?,” some Protestants argue that Jesus is rebuking Mary in order to denigrate her. To the contrary, when Jesus’ comments are read in light of Luke 8:5-15 and the parable of the sower which Jesus taught right before His question, Jesus is actually implying that Mary has already received the word as the sower of good ground and is bearing fruit. Jesus is teaching that others must, like Mary, also receive the word and obey it.

Matt. 12:48; Mark 3:33; Luke 8:21 - Jesus’ question about “who are my mother, and sisters and brothers” was also made in reference to Psalm 69:8-9. Jesus the Prophet was answering the psalmist’s prophecy that those closest to Him would betray Him at His passion. Jesus is emphasizing the spiritual family’s importance over the biological family, and the importance of being faithful to Him. While many were unfaithful to Jesus, Mary remained faithful to Him, even to the point of standing at the foot of the Cross.

Matt. 12:48; Mark 3:33; Luke 8:21 - finally, to argue that Jesus rebuked Mary is to argue that Jesus violated the Torah, here, the 4th commandment. This argument is blasphemous because it essentially says that God committed sin by dishonoring His Mother.

www.scripturecatholic.com

 

[MariaG]

Eden:

This is a common misinterpretation by Protestants. This has been answered many times before. Jesus is not rebuking His mother. He is saying that she is to be even more esteemed for saying “Yes” to God than simply for her biological role as His mother. This is not a remark disparaging his mother, in fact it’s the opposite.

:yup: And in fact shows how in tune the Catholic teaching is about Mary with Scripture.

Mary is not honored just for being the “God-bearer”. She is honored for her obeidience and held up as a Christian example.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[JoshuaJ]

Mickey,

The point is, Jesus doesn’t want anyone to focus on or emphasize another man when it comes to spiritual matters. The people were focusing on the one who bore Jesus instead of Him. All who do the will of God are His brethren. That is not what’s taught in church today.

Eden,

I’m not saying Jesus was rebuking Mary. I don’t believe that. I do believe He wants his followers to meditate on Him day and night for he is our provider, our creator, our healer etc. Why the need to exalt another. He is exalted above All.

 

[mrs_abbott]

JoshuaJ:

Luke 11:27-28 “And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea, rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.”

Quick question: Which Bible version is this quoted from? I have the New American Bible and I don’t recognize the termenology, unless you’re not quoting directly.

 

[MariaG]

JoshuaJ:

Mickey,

The point is, Jesus doesn’t want anyone to focus on or emphasize another man when it comes to spiritual matters. The people were focusing on the one who bore Jesus instead of Him. All who do the will of God are His brethren. That is not what’s taught in church today.

The Catholic Church does not teach to focus on Christ?

The Catholic church does not teach that all who do the will of God are His brethren?

What exactly does the church not teach today?

Eden,

I’m not saying Jesus was rebuking Mary. I don’t believe that. I do believe He wants his followers to meditate on Him day and night for he is our provider, our creator, our healer etc. Why the need to exalt another. He is exalted above All

And if one prays the rosary daily, one IS meditating on HIm.

The Catholic Church DOES exalt Him above All.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[MariaG]

mrs_abbott:

Quick question: Which Bible version is this quoted from? I have the New American Bible and I don’t recognize the termenology, unless you’re not quoting directly.

Douay-Rheims Bible

Luke 11:27And it came to pass, as he spoke these things, a certain woman from the crowd, lifting up her voice, said to him: Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. 28 But he said: Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[mrs_abbott]

Douay-Rheims Bible

Luke 11:27And it came to pass, as he spoke these things, a certain woman from the crowd, lifting up her voice, said to him: Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. 28 But he said: Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it.

God Bless,
Maria

Thanks. I was just curious.

 

[Eden]

JoshuaJ:

Eden,

I’m not saying Jesus was rebuking Mary. I don’t believe that. I do believe He wants his followers to meditate on Him day and night for he is our provider, our creator, our healer etc. Why the need to exalt another. He is exalted above All.

Honoring His mother does not take away from Him. We emulate His love for His mother. Why would you not want to emulate Christ’s love as a son for His mother?

Do you not recall what it says about the Blessed Virgin in the Bible?

"All generations will call me blessed, for he who is mighty has done great things for me" (Luke 1:48)

 

[JesusHasMyHeart]

JoshuaJ:

Mickey,

The point is, Jesus doesn’t want anyone to focus on or emphasize another man when it comes to spiritual matters. The people were focusing on the one who bore Jesus instead of Him. All who do the will of God are His brethren. That is not what’s taught in church today.

Eden,

I’m not saying Jesus was rebuking Mary. I don’t believe that. I do believe He wants his followers to meditate on Him day and night for he is our provider, our creator, our healer etc. Why the need to exalt another. He is exalted above All.

Dear JoshuaJ,
I am in complete agreement with you, we seem to be likeminded. We want to honor the word of God above the word of man. I am just learning how to use this forum, but I hope we can reply more soon.
God Bless You,
JesusHasMyHeart

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

stanley123:

With both methods, your purpose is to try to avoid having children. In one case you are putting on a hat (condom) and in the other case you are making detailed calcuclations involving charts, cycles, thermometers, and calendars to avoid having children. The purpose is the same in both cases. Also, with either method you can have failure and the wife can get pregnant.

Yeah and we can stop starvation by feeding the people or killing them all. Same end result…different means.

 

[JesusHasMyHeart]

Even If There Was Many Iffalible Proofs Scripturally That Contradict The Teachings Of The Catholic Church, Most Would Not Recieve It, And Would Rationalize The Doctrines Because They Don’t Want To Admit It. It Seems That People Are More Devoted To Their Religion More Than God Himself. The Pharisees Were Guilty Of This Very Thing, They Couldn’t Handle Jesus And The Truth Because They Had Their Minds And Religion Set. We Must Not Forget, Jesus Rebuked Them Sharply, And The Pharisees Deemed It Necessary To Kill Jesus And Shut Him Up. He Was An Outright Threat To There Religious System. They Were The Only People Jesus Was Appalled At, Angry At.

We Must Learn What This Means And Ask Ourselves If We Are Guilty Of The Same. God Forbid That We Should Find Ourselves On The Side Of The Pharisees Hating Anyone Trying To Shed Light Of Truth Of The Word Of God On Doctrines And Commandments Of Man, And How They Are Wrong.
Honestly Ask Yourself, When Someone Sheds Truth Of The Word Of God Upon The Subject Of False Doctrine, Do You Hate Them And Consider Them A Threat ? Jesus Said, If You Hate Your Brother You Are In Darkness, Even Now, And The Truth Of God Is Not In You. We Should Be Thankful For People Who Care Enough To Show Us When We Are In Error, Especially Spiritual Error, Because It Could Mean Eternal Damnation And A Soul Lost Forever.

All I Know Is That God Loves All Of Us Who Believe In And Live For Our Lord Jesus Christ And His Death On The Cross For All Our Sin.
Jesus Christ Is The Lord Of Lords And King Of Kings And The Final Authority On All Doctrinal Issues, Not Man Or Religion, But The Holy Word Of God.

Jesus Said, " If You Continue In My Word, Then You Are My Disciples Indeed, And You Shall Know The Truth, And The Truth Shall Set You Free".

 

[JesusHasMyHeart]

We must understand that nowhere in the bible does it say that Mary was sinless or a perpetual virgin, she did go on in marriage to Joseph and bore other children.

Only Jesus the second Adam, was born without sin, He was not of the seed of man which carries the sinful nature, but He was conceived of the Holy Spirit. We must understand the absolute importance of this, because without this, Jesus would have no right to be the sinless, perfect Lamb of God. His sacrifice for us would be tainted and unfit. This is the center of redemption and the foundation of our forgiveness of all sin. If we don’t get this right as individuals and believe in the uttmost importance of this, we have lost it all.This is essential doctrine of salvation.
This is why it was so important that He was not born of the sinful line of Adam through Joseph, but was born of the kingly line of David through Mary.

It is not essential that Mary was without sin, she bore the redeemer, but she herself was not the redeemer, but the honored woman without doubt, to bare the Messiah. And she probably cringes when people pray to her, worship her, and esteem her higher then the Lord in whom she bore and submitted to. She also needed a redeemer and she believed in the promise of God, and found much favor in the eyes of God, and she will be remembered for all she had done, and the reproach she lived with for her obedience.

 

[JesusHasMyHeart]

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus

 

[AlegreFe]

MariaG:

… And for many of our separated Brethren, biblically is the only thing that matters.

Hopefully what you posted will help. Not a lot of Bible verses, but what the verse means is jam packed full!

God Bless,
Maria

You are right about that bible way of thinking. My brother-in-law is Protestant (cradle Catholic) and he says, “If Mary is so important then why is she hardly in the bible?”

We are presenting PROOF for Mary’s sinlessness and the fact that she was conceived without original sin but Protestants are just not seeing it. They are “blind” to the truth. The Bible isn’t the ONLY thing we have to go by. We can also go by LOGIC and REASONING!

Please read and finish reading the whole rest of my post before “jumping” please. I ask a huge favor that you read, then read again, then really think about what you just read. Then read it again. Then and only then, can you post your reply. Can you do that please? I will say a prayer to the Holy Spirit for all of you.

As a matter of fact I will post the prayer here. Please say it along with me? It’s a prayer that is known but I changed the words around a bit to pertain to this particular situation. It’s okay to do that. The Church doesn’t condemn those who change prayers as long as they’re still in line with Church teachings;

O Holy Spirit, soul of my soul, I adore you.
Enlighten, guide, strengthen, and console me in reading the Word of God.
Tell me what I ought to think about what I am about to read
and command me to believe what is true.
I promise to be submissive in everything that you tell me,
and accept all that you permit to enter into my heart and mind.
Only show me what is Your will and give me the grace to accept and believe it.
Amen.

Of course that would only pertain to the Word of God and not my words. My words are just there for the Logic & Reasoning that I mentioned before.

I will start the bible verses and my version of Logic & Reasoning in the next post. So please read on. Thanks so much. Remember to keep in mind the prayer to the Holy Spirit.

 

[AlegreFe]

Don’t forget to pray to the Holy Spirit; your own prayer or prayer above in previous post.

Proof of her Immaculate Conception;
28 And the angel being come in, said unto her:
Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.
Luke 1:28-30 D-RV
38 And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me according to thy word.
Luke 1:38 D-RV
41 And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
42 And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. 43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44 For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy. 45 And blessed art thou that hast believed, because those things shall be accomplished that were spoken to thee by the Lord.
Luke 1:41-45 D-RV
46 And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord. 47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. 48 Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. * 49 Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name. 50 And his mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him.

• 48 **“Shall call me blessed”… ** These words are a prediction of that honour which the church in all ages should pay to the Blessed Virgin. Let Protestants examine whether they are any way concerned in this prophecy.
  Luke 1:46-50 D-RV

If Mary is one who has been perfected in Grace or made “full of grace” then how can there be any room for sin whether original or “man-made” sin. No where else in the bible did an Angel speak this way to anyone. Gabriel would not have used that name for her if she had been touched by sin. God gave her that name because of the meaning of that name, which is in bold at the top of this paragraph. God was Mary’s savior in that she needed a Savior before she was to be conceived. God just knew that it would be fitting for Mary to be SINLESS both from Original Sin and human sin. It would be fitting in that she was to bear Jesus. I don’t see how anyone can think that Jesus was to be born of a woman full of sin instead of from a woman “full of grace” which means she is sinless! God gave the woman a new name; Kécharitôménê. To be given a new name by God is a BIG DEAL. So please take it that way.

Mary is the New Eve!
27 And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Gen 1:27 D-RV
Eve was made without sin. If Mary is the New Eve, then how can Mary be made with Eve’s sin? It’s impossible for any fulfillment of an OT type be created as a lesser than the archetype. If you don’t think that Mary is the Immaculate Conception then you are exalting Eve ABOVE Mary. Eve brought about DEATH by obeying Satan. Mary brought about LIFE by obeying God! Look at Genesis 3:15 (one of my favorites verses in all of scripture)
15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
Gen 3:15 D-RV

More verses on Mary as the new Eve in the next post.

 

[AlegreFe]

24 Blessed among women be Jahel the wife of Haber the Cinite, and blessed be she in her tent. Judges 5:24
Mary is described as “blessed among women” two times in the NT. The Angel’s words and Elizabeth’s words are a reference to the OT verse above. The woman in the OT verse pierced the head/skull of this leader of an opposing army. This could speak of a fulfillment of Genesis 3:15 which I have above in my previous post.

1 And the third day, there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee: and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 And Jesus also was invited, and his disciples, to the marriage. 3 And the wine failing, the mother of Jesus saith to him: They have no wine. 4 And Jesus saith to her: Woman, what is that to me and to thee? my hour is not yet come. 5 His mother saith to the waiters: Whatsoever he shall say to you, do ye.
John 2:1-5 D-RV
Jesus calls his mother “woman”. Jesus in no way would be disrespectful to his mother whether in private or in public. That would be a sin punishable by stoning. “Woman” or that title in greek “gune” was one of honor. It is the same title used by God in His words to Eve in Genesis 3:15 which I have above.

26 When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple standing whom he loved, he saith to his mother: Woman, behold thy son. 27 After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother. And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own.
John 19:26-27 D-RV
Jesus uses this title “gune” or “woman” again to give all of us His mother.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent his Son, made of a woman, made under the law:
Gal 4:4 D-RV
There is that “title” again and it is used to show great honor to Mary.

**More to come in my next post about Mary being the New Ark of the Covenant!!

Keep praying to the Holy Spirit to inspire you in the TRUTH.**

 

[AlegreFe]

Mary is the New Ark of the Covenant and therefore cannot be “touched” by anyone. There is no way that Joseph would touch Mary in a sinful way because it is also known that the Ark of the Covenant was to be touched by no one lest they die.

Remember Elizabeth’s greeting to Mary?
43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
Luke 1:43
This is the same one that David used when he received the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament.
9 And David was afraid of the Lord that day, saying: How shall the ark of the Lord come to me?

Now remember how long Mary stayed with Elizabeth? For three months. Now read this next verse please;
11 And the ark of the Lord abode in the house of Obededom the Gethite three months: and the Lord blessed Obededom, and all his household.
2 Sam 6:11 D-RV

“The Ark” is described in Revelation. Do you really think they are talking about that old box from the OT.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven: and the ark of his testament was seen in his temple, and there were lightnings, and voices, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Rev 11:19 D-RV
Think about it. Jesus came to fulfill everything in the NT. He is to make everything new and perfect as He told His mother. So do you really think that Heaven would be full of OT “types?”

1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:1 D-RV
There’s that “woman” again! But this is about the New Ark of the Covenant (just had to throw that in about “woman”). We have our bible separated in chapters but back then they weren’t separated like that. So this verse comes right after 11:19 which tells us that the Ark is visible in Heaven and then goes right into this verse 12:1 about the woman clothed with the sun. So that “Ark” is the Woman! Yes it could also be the church.

35 And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Luke 1:35 D-RV
Ex 40:32-33 D-RV (Ex 40:34-35 NAB or any other version) 32 The cloud covered the tabernacle of the testimony, and the glory of the Lord filled it. 33 Neither could Moses go into the tabernacle of the covenant, the cloud covering all things and the majesty of the Lord shining, for the cloud had covered all.
Ex 40:32-33 D-RV

The Ark in the OT had a cloud overshadow it showing that God was present and that this was a holy place. Mary has that same “cloud” overshadow her so that she can conceive a child to be named Jesus. The old Ark was given so much homage and respect and since Mary is the New Ark, it is only fitting that she be given that same homage and respect. No one could enter the dwelling while the Spirit of the Lord was present and therefore no man can “enter” Mary lest he die. This should explain the fact that Mary remained a Virgin and is EVER Virgin! And Joseph knew this all too well.
Now lets think back on Luke 1:38. The angel was waiting for her responce. As if God was asking permission. She could’ve said no as in a disobedience to God but God gave her the Free Will to say Yes or No and of course she says Yes! ** “Fiat!” “…be it done to me according to thy word.”** The New Ark has now fulfilled its purpose with Jesus becoming Flesh so that He can dwell among us!

More to come in my next post… please keep praying and have an open mind and an open heart!

 

[AlegreFe]

Here is one more thing that I post here that says that Mary is the New Ark of the Covenant prooving that Mary is EVER VIRGIN and without sin! There are more but I’ll finish here with this one.

Remember that I posted about paying “homage” to the Ark. Elizabeth is the first to pay “Homage” to the new Ark, Mary! She called her “Blessed” the same way she called the “fruit of her womb” blessed! Don’t forget… Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit when she said this. The Holy Spirit loves His spouse Mary so much!
41 … And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
42 And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
This is also a fulfillment; the fact that John leaped in Elizabeth’s womb just the same way that David “leaped” with Joy when the Ark was with him.

Okay, I’m exhausted! LOL There is nothing more that I can say to convince you. I cannot make you do anything or make you believe. I only plant the seed. The only one that can make that seed grow and make you believe is God! I leave this in God’s hands now! Please cooperate and open your minds, your eyes and your hearts to this truth. Maybe you could save these posts and read them again another time and let them soak in. It would also help if you could take off your “Protestant glasses” and try to see things differently. I am not putting anyone down here, I’m just trying to help you see this in a different light, a NEW Light!

Now I shall go have my LOL

God Bless You All!