Name one Catholic teaching that contradicts Scripture

[Mannyfit75]

Oh were they REALLY? ALL of them? Come on. Read the Scriptures my friend…

For certain men have crept in unawares, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, changing the grace of our God into licentiousness and denying the only Master God and our Lord Jesus Christ. (Jude 1:4)

Could these be some of the “successors” you talk about? How do YOU know? The answer is you don’t. It is very obvious.

Jude 1:4 speaks of Old Testament text of men who did not believe and were destroyed.

Further down the passage of Jude it states the following:

I wish to remind you, although you know all things, that (the) Lord who once saved a people from the land of Egypt later destroyed those who did not believe. 4
6
The angels too, who did not keep to their own domain but deserted their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains, in gloom, for the judgment of the great day. 5
7
Likewise, Sodom, Gomorrah, and the surrounding towns, which, in the same manner as they, indulged in sexual promiscuity and practiced unnatural vice, 6 serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
8
Similarly, these dreamers 7 nevertheless also defile the flesh, scorn lordship, and revile glorious beings.
9
Yet the archangel Michael, when he argued with the devil in a dispute over the body of Moses, did not venture to pronounce a reviling judgment 8 upon him but said, “May the Lord rebuke you!”
10
But these people revile what they do not understand and are destroyed by what they know by nature like irrational animals.
11
Woe to them! They followed the way of Cain, abandoned themselves to Balaam’s error for the sake of gain, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. 9
12
These are blemishes on your love feasts, 10 as they carouse fearlessly and look after themselves. They are waterless clouds blown about by winds, fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead and uprooted.
13
They are like wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shameless deeds, wandering stars for whom the gloom of darkness has been reserved forever.
14
11 Enoch, of the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied also about them when he said, “Behold, the Lord has come with his countless holy ones
15
to execute judgment on all and to convict everyone for all the godless deeds that they committed and for all the harsh words godless sinners have uttered against him.”
16
These people are complainers, disgruntled ones who live by their desires; their mouths utter bombast as they fawn over people to gain advantage.
17
But you, beloved, remember the words spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ,
18
for they told you, “In (the) last time there will be scoffers who will live according to their own godless desires.” 12
19
These are the ones who cause divisions; they live on the natural plane, devoid of the Spirit.
20
But you, beloved, build yourselves up in your most holy faith; pray in the holy Spirit.
21
Keep yourselves in the love of God and wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life.
22
On those who waver, have mercy; 13
23
save others by snatching them out of the fire; on others have mercy with fear, 14 abhorring even the outer garment stained by the flesh.
24
15 To the one who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you unblemished and exultant, in the presence of his glory,
25
to the only God, our savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord be glory, majesty, power, and authority from ages past, now, and for ages to come. Amen. (continue))

 

[Mannyfit75]

The successors of the Apostles like St. Ireneous, St. Ignatius, St. Polycarp, St. Augustine, and other ECF were taught by the Apostles.

St. Clement as well, who is the Bishop of Rome. He was taught by St. Peter.

St. Ignatius and St. Polycarp were disciple of St. John, the Apostles. Are you saying that these men were taught in error? I think not.

 

[Image_of_God]

Oh were they REALLY? ALL of them? Come on. Read the Scriptures my friend…

For certain men have crept in unawares, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, changing the grace of our God into licentiousness and denying the only Master God and our Lord Jesus Christ. (Jude 1:4)

Could these be some of the “successors” you talk about? How do YOU know? The answer is you don’t. It is very obvious.

Actually I do know. Some of these people were taught exactly by the apostles. You can even see Clement’s name in the Bible and he is the same exact person as Pope Clement.

Have you actually read what these men’s lives were about or are you just assuming that they were corrupt. The fact is that you do not know, but the men who have passed down this information certainly do.

I also have another objection…some of these you call ungodly are actually matyrs who gave lup their lives for Christ. They never denied God nor did they deny Jesus as their master rather they submitted to him.

As I refer to my prior quote, if you cannot except God through the very men He gives you then you might very well be rejecting Jesus. Because anyone who looks at these documents can see clear truth and orthodoxy in them. If it were so obvious that I didn’t know why would I still reply. I do know. You are the misinformed one. If we all believed what you believed about the Church Fathers then we are much like people of Israel who ignored the prophets because they were mere men rather than recognizing the voice of God through them.

Here is an epistle from the same Clement in the Bible.
I hope you don’t say the same thing you said before.

newadvent.org/fathers/1010.htm

 

[M_Oliver]

Jude 1:4 speaks of Old Testament text of men who did not believe and were destroyed.

Further down the passage of Jude it states the following:

I wish to remind you, although you know all things, that (the) Lord who once saved a people from the land of Egypt later destroyed those who did not believe. 4
6
The angels too, who did not keep to their own domain but deserted their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains, in gloom, for the judgment of the great day. 5
7
Likewise, Sodom, Gomorrah, and the surrounding towns, which, in the same manner as they, indulged in sexual promiscuity and practiced unnatural vice, 6 serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
8
Similarly, these dreamers 7 nevertheless also defile the flesh, scorn lordship, and revile glorious beings.
9
Yet the archangel Michael, when he argued with the devil in a dispute over the body of Moses, did not venture to pronounce a reviling judgment 8 upon him but said, “May the Lord rebuke you!”
10
But these people revile what they do not understand and are destroyed by what they know by nature like irrational animals.
11
Woe to them! They followed the way of Cain, abandoned themselves to Balaam’s error for the sake of gain, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. 9
12
These are blemishes on your love feasts, 10 as they carouse fearlessly and look after themselves. They are waterless clouds blown about by winds, fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead and uprooted.
13
They are like wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shameless deeds, wandering stars for whom the gloom of darkness has been reserved forever.
14
11 Enoch, of the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied also about them when he said, “Behold, the Lord has come with his countless holy ones
15
to execute judgment on all and to convict everyone for all the godless deeds that they committed and for all the harsh words godless sinners have uttered against him.”
16
These people are complainers, disgruntled ones who live by their desires; their mouths utter bombast as they fawn over people to gain advantage.
17
But you, beloved, remember the words spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ,
18
for they told you, “In (the) last time there will be scoffers who will live according to their own godless desires.” 12
19
These are the ones who cause divisions; they live on the natural plane, devoid of the Spirit.
20
But you, beloved, build yourselves up in your most holy faith; pray in the holy Spirit.
21
Keep yourselves in the love of God and wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life.
22
On those who waver, have mercy; 13
23
save others by snatching them out of the fire; on others have mercy with fear, 14 abhorring even the outer garment stained by the flesh.
24
15 To the one who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you unblemished and exultant, in the presence of his glory,
25
to the only God, our savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord be glory, majesty, power, and authority from ages past, now, and for ages to come. Amen. (continue))

Do you have a point manny? Anyone can copy and paste Scripture. Maybe you do not understand what you are posting?

 

[Image_of_God]

The transfer WHERE? To the “church” you say He did? Again, you demonstrate that you have NO Scriptural proof for ANY of your assumptions. All I am asking for is some Scriptural PROOF for your claims. You repeatedly refuse to do it. I know why! You cannot.

He gave you proof and You do not believe it. I hope you know that the Bible clearly states in John 20:30-31 that not everything Jesus did is in the Bible. Where else would you get this information than from the apostles themselves. If you do not believe them who witness then you cannot say you believe Jesus.

Read Luke 9:4-5
“Whatever house you enter stay there and leave from there. And as for those who do not welcome you, you leave that town, shake the dust from your feet in testomony against them.”

Jesus did send the apostles…but you have been given scriptural proof like you wanted.

 

[MariaG]

I don’t think I wrote that. I know only the Church has the authority to intrepret Scripture. Peter warn us that self intrepretation can be dangerous for one’s soul.

Sorry Manny, I know you did not write what was attributed to you and I did not catch that. I thought I just hit the quote button. It brought up the right quote but the wrong person’s name on the quote. Something I did? Or just bugs in the system?

I will try to catch the modes and see if they can fix that post and get your name out of there

God Bless,
Maria

Ps. It just did it again! I hit the quote button, it brought up your quote but attributed it to me.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Do you have a point manny? Anyone can copy and paste Scripture. Maybe you do not understand what you are posting?

I copy and paste. The citations I made are from Scripture Catholic Website which gave Scripture text supporting Catholic Doctrine.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Do you have a point manny? Anyone can copy and paste Scripture. Maybe you do not understand what you are posting?

I quoted Jude because you are trying to justify the successors of the Apostles are teaching false doctrine by uses Jude. None of the ECF denied Jesus Christ, nor did the Church. Those who did were condemned by the Catholic Church as heretics.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Oliver rejects Jesus Christ indirectly because he believes the Church as the Whore in Revelations…

 

[believers]

Although I know this has been discussed at length before, there are several new people who have said this recently. I think it is time to start a new thread again. Shall we make a list here that you wish to discuss and then start a new thread for each doctrine that a person believes is unscriptural?

Name one doctrine of the Catholic Church that contradicts Scripture. One that in fact does not have an implicit teaching in Scripture.

I am a Catholic that loves to “find it in the Bible”. If anyone can show me one doctrine of the Catholic Church that contradicts scripture, I’ll leave today.

Maria

Hi Maria,

The Roman Catholic Church DOES NOT teach the full 10 Commandments in it’s CCD classes (Confraternity of Christian Doctrine). That’s the official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church for those who don’t know. The RCC only teaches the “Traditional Catechetical Formula” version which changes the First Commandment to “strange gods” and then completely deletes the next commandment regarding “graven images”.

“Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
Matthew 5:19

“…for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:20

 

[Mannyfit75]

Hi Maria,

The Roman Catholic Church DOES NOT teach the full 10 Commandments in it’s CCD classes (Confraternity of Christian Doctrine). That’s the official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church for those who don’t know. The RCC only teaches the “Traditional Catechetical Formula” version which changes the First Commandment to “strange gods” and then completely deletes the next commandment regarding “graven images”.

Actually we didn’t this article covers such false claim. The Catholic Church does teach the Ten Commandments.

The True Ten Commandments: A Catholic Apologia for their Content and Arrangement

*The early Christian church, received this catechetical tradition from the Church Fathers, especially Augustine. He relied heavily on the Decalogue as presented by Moses in Deuteronomy 5. Thus, until the late Middle Ages, children memorized the commandments in the order as we still know it from the Catechism. Even after the Reformation, Lutherans and Catholics agreed on this enumeration and arrangement.

Calvin and other Reformers, relying more on Exodus 20 and its presentation of the Decalogue, and wanting to make a strike against the statuary and icons in the Catholic Church, enumerated the commandments in a different way. Based on this new sixteenth-century re-presentation of the Decalogue, many denominations in America now teach the commandments much as they were seen on the Alabama monument. Thus one can see a problem would be created if public squares or public schools were allowed to display the Ten Commandments: Whose version should prevail?

While Jewish versions of the commandments follow Exodus 20 primarily, their enumeration does not exactly follow that of the Reformers. The first commandment in Jewish life is usually the creedal statement of verse 2 of Exodus 20: “I am the Lord your God.” This affirmation of monotheism and loyalty corresponds to the famous “Shema” of Deuteronomy 6:4. The second commandment in Jewish faith encompasses both verses 3 and 4 against polytheism and the making of or worship of images of other deities or gods. It is only with the third commandment that there is correspondence to the Reform list. In all traditions the second through eighth commandments as listed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church basically correspond to one another. The divergence happens in the first and second commandments and then at the end in the ninth and tenth commandments.*

Please identify the Church as Roman Catholic Church for such giving the Catholic Church the word “ROMAN” leaves out the Eastern Rite Catholic Church. The use to address the Church as a whole is Catholic Church, which is more accurate.

The Western is known as the Latin or Roman Rite.

((Continue))

 

[Mannyfit75]

The Catholic Church did not delete any of the Ten Commandments in fact, the Catholic Bible has commandment that mention commanding that forbid making images but the number is different order.

I don’t see the CC removing any of the commandments.

To prove my point. I’ll pull out the verse in the Douy-Rheim Bible and the New America Bible from Exodus 20.

Dou-Rheim Bible:

Exodus 20

Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth.

Fotenote: “A graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing”… All such images, or likenesses, are forbidden by this commandment, as are made to be adored and served; according to that which immediately follows, thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them. That is, all such as are designed for idols or image-gods, or are worshipped with divine honour. But otherwise images, pictures, or representations, even in the house of God, and in the very sanctuary so far from being forbidden, are expressly authorized by the word of God. See Ex. 25. 15, and etc.; chap. 38. 7; Num. 21. 8, 9; 1 Chron. or Paralip. 28. 18, 19; 2 Chron. or Paralip. 3. 10.

New American Bible

You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth.

The wording is different but the message remains the same. Was it deleted, I can clearly see it wasn’t. The Article also explain why the Catholic Church differs from the mainstream Protestant 10 Commandments.

Catholic had it the 2,000 yrs old way, the Protestant or Non-Catholic Christian had it their way since the Protestant Reformation.

 

[Joe_Monahan]

Maria, Manny, et al.

I have attempted to fix the misattributed quotes and think I caught all of them. If not, PM me and indicate the post # that is problematic.

The problem began when Manny quoted rbracia but inadvertantly deleted the at the end of the quoted text. Next, Maria quoted the quote w/in a quote (rbracia quoted by Manny), instead of going directly to rbracia’s post to quote - result - it showed up as if Manny said what he was actually quoting rbracia as saying.

The moral - be very careful not to delete any of the system-generated tags - like - when using the quote function AND preview your text before posting it.

Joe

 

[believers]

Actually we didn’t this article covers such false claim. The Catholic Church does teach the Ten Commandments.

The True Ten Commandments: A Catholic Apologia for their Content and Arrangement

*The early Christian church, received this catechetical tradition from the Church Fathers, especially Augustine. He relied heavily on the Decalogue as presented by Moses in Deuteronomy 5. Thus, until the late Middle Ages, children memorized the commandments in the order as we still know it from the Catechism. Even after the Reformation, Lutherans and Catholics agreed on this enumeration and arrangement.

Calvin and other Reformers, relying more on Exodus 20 and its presentation of the Decalogue, and wanting to make a strike against the statuary and icons in the Catholic Church, enumerated the commandments in a different way. Based on this new sixteenth-century re-presentation of the Decalogue, many denominations in America now teach the commandments much as they were seen on the Alabama monument. Thus one can see a problem would be created if public squares or public schools were allowed to display the Ten Commandments: Whose version should prevail?

While Jewish versions of the commandments follow Exodus 20 primarily, their enumeration does not exactly follow that of the Reformers. The first commandment in Jewish life is usually the creedal statement of verse 2 of Exodus 20: “I am the Lord your God.” This affirmation of monotheism and loyalty corresponds to the famous “Shema” of Deuteronomy 6:4. The second commandment in Jewish faith encompasses both verses 3 and 4 against polytheism and the making of or worship of images of other deities or gods. It is only with the third commandment that there is correspondence to the Reform list. In all traditions the second through eighth commandments as listed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church basically correspond to one another. The divergence happens in the first and second commandments and then at the end in the ninth and tenth commandments.*

Please identify the Church as Roman Catholic Church for such giving the Catholic Church the word “ROMAN” leaves out the Eastern Rite Catholic Church. The use to address the Church as a whole is Catholic Church, which is more accurate.

The Western is known as the Latin or Roman Rite.

((Continue))

It’s simple… The RCC leaves out the “graven images” part of the 10 Commandments. Just go to CCD and find out. My family and I went to CCD. We were not taught the full 10 Commandments. Did you go to CCD and if so which one so I can call them and find out which version they teach.

 

[rbarcia]

The Lord did not physically write the on the Tablets. The wrote on the tablets thru Moses. God did not physically make the Ark. The Lord made the Ark thru Moses.

In the proper context you don’t have a contradiction of Scripture with respect to Exodus and Dueteronomy.

You taking the hyperliteral view creates a Contradiction between the two.

Context Roland Context.

I am not stating any contradictions. God wrote the actual Ten Commandments.

The words that God instructed Moses to write were “ these words,” which He spoke in the preceding verses (i.e., 34:10-26—the ceremonial and judicial injunctions, not the ten “words” of Exodus 20:2-17). The rewriting of the Ten Commandments on the newly prepared slabs was done by God’s own hand. God specifically stated in the first verse of Exodus 34 that He (not Moses) would write the same words that had been written on the first tablets of stone that Moses broke. In verse 28 of that chapter, we have it on record that God did what He said He would do in verse one (cf. Deuteronomy 10:2-4). The only thing verse 27 teaches is that Moses wrote the list of regulations given in verses 10-26. That these regulations were not the Ten Commandments is obvious in that there are not even ten of them listed in Exodus 34. Moses wrote the words “The Ten Commandments.” God wrote the actual commandments from Exodus 20 as He stated He would.

 

[MariaG]

Hi Maria,

The Roman Catholic Church DOES NOT teach the full 10 Commandments in it’s CCD classes (Confraternity of Christian Doctrine). That’s the official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church for those who don’t know. The RCC only teaches the “Traditional Catechetical Formula” version which changes the First Commandment to “strange gods” and then completely deletes the next commandment regarding “graven images”.

“Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
Matthew 5:19

“…for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:20

Hi believers,

First of all, if you were not taught all the commandment in CCD I am truly sorry. However, if you are saying that the Catholic Church does not teach about graven images you are sadly mistaken.

First of all, your OWN link shows that in fact, the Catholic Church does in fact teach against graven images. If you look at the chart from your own link it shows what scripture says, and then how the Catholic Church has chosen to condense all that belongs together under the same thought.

I tried to post the information, but it is oversize and does not cut and paste easily. But go again and look at the link you provided. Clearly, the “formula” is a summary of ALL that is listed. The prohibition against graven images is included in the first commandmant for Catholic Christians. (For all Christians for 1500 years)

Here is a link to a JEWISH source that even talks about how the ten commandments are not numbered in scripture and that in fact there are other ways to number them. The Jewish source also affirms the fact that idolatry is part of the first commandment according to the Catholic division of the Commandments.

Division & Structure of the Ten Commandments

This has been open to interpretation throughout history.

**By Rabbi Ronald H. Isaacs **

…
Yet another division is used in the Roman Catholic and Lutheran churches. This follows the written text ofTorah scrolls and combines verses 2 through 6 into one commandment; that is, it **includes the prohibitions ofidolatry in the first commandment. **

The Catholic Church does in fact prohibit idolarty (the worship of graven images) and at least in the official teachings of the Catholic Church it is clearly taught.

The issue of whether or not you were taught it in CCD is a separate issue but since the link you provided also shows that the Catholic Church teaches against graven images I would suspect the problem does not lay with the CCD teachers.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[MariaG]

Maria, Manny, et al.

I have attempted to fix the misattributed quotes and think I caught all of them. If not, PM me and indicate the post # that is problematic.

The problem began when Manny quoted rbracia but inadvertantly deleted the

at the end of the quoted text. Next, Maria quoted the quote w/in a quote (rbracia quoted by Manny), instead of going directly to rbracia’s post to quote - result - it showed up as if Manny said what he was actually quoting rbracia as saying.

The moral - be very careful not to delete any of the system-generated tags - like - when using the quote function AND preview your text before posting it.

Joe

Thank you!

I know I will be more careful in the future

God Bless,
Maria

 

[MariaG]

Maria, Manny, et al.

I have attempted to fix the misattributed quotes and think I caught all of them. If not, PM me and indicate the post # that is problematic.

The problem began when Manny quoted rbracia but inadvertantly deleted the quote sign at the end of the quoted text. Next, Maria quoted the quote w/in a quote (rbracia quoted by Manny), instead of going directly to rbracia’s post to quote - result - it showed up as if Manny said what he was actually quoting rbracia as saying.

The moral - be very careful not to delete any of the system-generated tags - like quote sign- when using the quote function AND preview your text before posting it.

Joe

Thanks Joe

Kind or ironic, I tried to quote you the first time and something went wrong. I am trying again to see if I can see what I am doing wrong.

God Bless,
Maria

I figured it out. If the

feature is in any way used, the system stops the persons quote at that point. If you go to the original text of Joe you will see I edited it and replaced

with the words quote sign and all of his text was quoted. It is not apparent until after one posts so make sure to spend a little time AFTER you post also to do a quick “proof”.

Just thought I would let others know.

 

[believers]

Hi believers,

First of all, if you were not taught all the commandment in CCD I am truly sorry. However, if you are saying that the Catholic Church does not teach about graven images you are sadly mistaken.

First of all, your OWN link shows that in fact, the Catholic Church does in fact teach against graven images. If you look at the chart from your own link it shows what scripture says, and then how the Catholic Church has chosen to condense all that belongs together under the same thought.

I tried to post the information, but it is oversize and does not cut and paste easily. But go again and look at the link you provided. Clearly, the “formula” is a summary of ALL that is listed. The prohibition against graven images is included in the first commandmant for Catholic Christians. (For all Christians for 1500 years)

Here is a link to a JEWISH source that even talks about how the ten commandments are not numbered in scripture and that in fact there are other ways to number them. The Jewish source also affirms the fact that idolatry is part of the first commandment according to the Catholic division of the Commandments.

The Catholic Church does in fact prohibit idolarty (the worship of graven images) and at least in the official teachings of the Catholic Church it is clearly taught.

The issue of whether or not you were taught it in CCD is a separate issue but since the link you provided also shows that the Catholic Church teaches against graven images I would suspect the problem does not lay with the CCD teachers.

God Bless,
Maria

Hi,

How do you explain this one? This one only lists the edited version… thus teaching people incorrectly.
catholic.org/clife/prayers/beliefs.php
The Ten Commandments of God

1. I am the Lord your God; you shall not have strange gods before me.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Lord’s day
4. Honor your father and your mother.
5. You shall not kill.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
10. You shall not covet you neighbor’s goods.

 

[MariaG]

Authority to preach the Gospel does not translate to authority to interpret scripture. Jesus gave us a job to preach the gospel. The gospel is still being preached today.

Respectfully, that makes no sense.

Christ entrusted the gospel to the apostles who then left instructions in scripture to entrust it to faithful men and guard against false prophets or any one who teaches a gospel contrary to what they taught.

How can they do that if in fact they were not in fact given the the living breathing authority to interpret the scripture? How could they KNOW if someone was teaching a gospel contrary to what they were taught if they lacked the authority to interpret what was written?

God Bless,
Maria

I see rbarcia was back posting yet never addressed this point.

One cannot faithfully preach a gospel, and entrust the gospel to faithful men if one does not also have the authority to interpret the written word.

If you disagree, please tell me how it is possible to know one is preaching the gospel of the apostles especially since many claim to be led by the Spirit yet have different interpretations of the same scripture. How did the Church deal with entrusting the gospel to faithful men if there was not any way to judge what they were teaching?

God Bless,
Maria