Nancy Pelosi mistates the Church's position

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This question should be one to be ask at the debates between
Biden and Palin I think we will get the same response as saddleback mumbling and above paygrade. Biden is a catholic and knows better, I already know Palin’s answer she has a little 5 month old to prove she walks the walk and talks the talk of Our Lord:thumbsup:
 
deesmith47 said:
This question should be one to be ask at the debates between
Biden and Palin I think we will get the same response as saddleback mumbling and above paygrade. Biden is a catholic and knows better, I already know Palin’s answer she has a little 5 month old to prove she walks the walk and talks the talk of Our Lord:thumbsup:
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Not only that she was told by the doctor when shewas 4 monthspregnant that the baby would be born with Downs syndrome and both her and her husband chose to have the baby
 
Just a reminder to everyone to pray for the Archbishop of San Francisco, since he has promised a statement on this whole mess on September 5th.

Also, Tom Brokaw did mention today on Meet the Press that Nancy Pelosi’s comments were criticized by the Church. Not a big mention, but it was brought up.
 
Nancy Pelosi is somewhat correct, but her comments are very misleading. The Church Fathers debated over when “human” life began and did not necessarily agree that it began at conception. For example, St. Thomas Aquinas made the distinction between vegetable life, animal life, and human life, and hypothesized that the fetus went through the same progression. Keep in mind that they were using the science of their times. Science has progressed tremendously since then and the Catholic Church’s current position is that “human” life begins at conception.

All that aside, no Church Father has ever suggested that abortion was anything less than a mortal sin. From the Didache to St. Cyprian to St. Augustine to St. Thomas Aquinas, the Catholic Church’s position has consistently been that abortion is gravely wrong (i.e., a sin warranting excommunication). While some of the early Church Fathers (e.g., St. Augustine) may have thought that abortion was morally wrong along the same lines that fornication or adultery are morally wrong, other Church Fathers (e.g., St. Cyprian and St. Clement) clearly taught that abortion was wrong because it was murder.

With the advance of science, the Catholic Church has progressed in its moral theology to the point where it can say that “human” life begins at conception, and the woman who procures an abortion as well as the doctor who provides it both commit murder and are, ipso facto, ex communicated from the Catholic Church.
 
valient_Lucy said:
Just a reminder to everyone to pray for the Archbishop of San Francisco, since he has promised a statement on this whole mess on September 5th.

Also, Tom Brokaw did mention today on Meet the Press that Nancy Pelosi’s comments were criticized by the Church. Not a big mention, but it was brought up.
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No, Tom Brokaw did not state that Pelosi’s comments were criticized by the church, he stated that the she got into a lot of trouble with the catholic church, that she stated what she thought about catholic theology, and the church “came after her”. Came after her? How about corrected her and informed catholics her statements were incorrect. There’s main stream media for you.
 
Note Before We Begin:

Please be aware that CAF has banned discussion on political candidates and parties … Therefore, please do not name anyone running for office, and please do not name any particular political party. If anyone violates this CAF rule, I will be reporting your post to a moderator because I would prefer not to see my thread deleted due to someone else’s actions. Thank you in advance for your kind cooperation.

Here’s a link to the thread containing these forum rules, for your reference:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=166968

Now, on with the post.

The Holy Spirit led me to my English-speaking parish today rather than downtown to the Latin Mass that I love, and I am SO GLAD that I attended Mass where I did, so that I could hear my pastor’s excellent homily!

He got right to the point and started out by saying,

"Now last week on ‘Meet the Press,’ Nancy Pelosi made some comments about when life begins that completely misrepresented what the Catholic Church teaches … "

The pastor then proceeded to correct Pelosi’s mistaken assumptions by quoting, word for word, Washington Archbishop Donald W. Wuerl’s citation of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, ""Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception … Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law.”

thehill.com/leading-the-news/archbishop-pelosis-comments-on-abortion-are-false-2008-08-25.html

My pastor also quoted, word for word, Edward Cardinal Egan, Archbishop of New York, “Anyone who dares to defend that they [the unborn] may be legitimately killed because another human being “chooses” to do so or for any other equally ridiculous reason should not be providing leadership in a civilized democracy worthy of the name.”

archny.org/news-events/news-press-releases/index.cfm?i=8803

The pastor finished the homily by quoting part of today’s Second Reading:

“Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.” – Romans 12:2

All’s I can say is, YAY TEAM !!! 🙂 👍 :cool: :clapping: :tiphat:

~~ the phoenix
 
the_phoenix said:
Note Before We Begin:

Please be aware that CAF has banned discussion on political candidates and parties … Therefore, please do not name anyone running for office, and please do not name any particular political party. If anyone violates this CAF rule, I will be reporting your post to a moderator because I would prefer not to see my thread deleted due to someone else’s actions. Thank you in advance for your kind cooperation.

Here’s a link to the thread containing these forum rules, for your reference:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=166968

Now, on with the post.

The Holy Spirit led me to my English-speaking parish today rather than downtown to the Latin Mass that I love, and I am SO GLAD that I attended Mass where I did, so that I could hear my pastor’s excellent homily!

He got right to the point and started out by saying,

"Now last week on ‘Meet the Press,’ Nancy Pelosi made some comments about when life begins that completely misrepresented what the Catholic Church teaches … "

The pastor then proceeded to correct Pelosi’s mistaken assumptions by quoting, word for word, Washington Archbishop Donald W. Wuerl’s citation of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, ""Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception … Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law.”

thehill.com/leading-the-news/archbishop-pelosis-comments-on-abortion-are-false-2008-08-25.html

My pastor also quoted, word for word, Edward Cardinal Egan, Archbishop of New York, “Anyone who dares to defend that they [the unborn] may be legitimately killed because another human being “chooses” to do so or for any other equally ridiculous reason should not be providing leadership in a civilized democracy worthy of the name.”

archny.org/news-events/news-press-releases/index.cfm?i=8803

The pastor finished the homily by quoting part of today’s Second Reading:

“Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.” – Romans 12:2

All’s I can say is, YAY TEAM !!! 🙂 👍 :cool: :clapping: :tiphat:

~~ the phoenix
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God bless your Pastor. those people that claim to Be Catholic and yet make statements in direct opposition to Church teaching or miss represent church teaching must be spoken out against and set straight.

A side notes since 1973 there have been close to 40,000,000 abortions in the USA give or take a 1,000,000
 
maryj said:
No, Tom Brokaw did not state that Pelosi’s comments were criticized by the church, he stated that the she got into a lot of trouble with the catholic church, that she stated what she thought about catholic theology, and the church “came after her”. Came after her? How about corrected her and informed catholics her statements were incorrect. There’s main stream media for you.
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Well, that’s not surprising. On the other hand, at least he mentioned that remarks were not without controversy.
 
SFH said:
Nancy Pelosi is somewhat correct, but her comments are very misleading. The Church Fathers debated over when “human” life began and did not necessarily agree that it began at conception. For example, St. Thomas Aquinas made the distinction between vegetable life, animal life, and human life, and hypothesized that the fetus went through the same progression. Keep in mind that they were using the science of their times. Science has progressed tremendously since then and the Catholic Church’s current position is that “human” life begins at conception.

.
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A Slight correction is needed here. The early argument wasn’t necessarily over when life began, it was when “Ensoulment” occured. This was first postulated by Aristotle and continued for a long time in the church. They used to think that a male was ensouled 40 days after conception, and 80 days for a female. But they didn’t disagree on life starting at conception. The penalities used to be enourmous for some of the secular governments. Some would put you to death by fire, or by burying you alive if you had an abortion at any time during the pregnancy.

Augustine was only trying to define types of penalities for an early abortion. For instance some of the theologians considered that if one aborted after 40 days, then that person could never receive Holy Orders, but the penalty for aborting earlier than that was still grave and considered a mortal sin.
 
Be it noted that the Democrat party plank includes abortion on demand.
 
Be it noted that the Democrat party plank includes abortion on demand.
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It does, but that won’t stop millions o fCatholics from voting pro choice, because they dislike the President so much, and don’t want to have anything to do with voting conservative.

They are more liberal than Catholic. It is the only conclusion that makes sense.
 
BamaRider said:
It does, but that won’t stop millions o fCatholics from voting pro choice, because they dislike the President so much, and don’t want to have anything to do with voting conservative.

They are more liberal than Catholic. It is the only conclusion that makes sense.
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Too sad, but the number of EMHC’s should go down since these catholics shouldn’t be presenting themselves for Holy Communion. If they only knew:eek:
 
BamaRider said:
It does, but that won’t stop millions o fCatholics from voting pro choice, because they dislike the President so much, and don’t want to have anything to do with voting conservative.

They are more liberal than Catholic. It is the only conclusion that makes sense.
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They hate the president so much that they don’t care that millions of babies are destroyed. That even babies who survive a botched abortion are left to die. Its all about hope and change. Germany once wanted hope and change and they got it as well. And millions died because of it.

With people like Pelosi leading the party who lie about the Church, I hang my head in shame, when they are not held to account. Its even more distressing when others seem to not care, yet if she was protestant the stuff would hit the fan. I guess only Catholics in Politics can say lies about the church, and get away with it.
 
I just heard the most heartbreaking story about a nurse who worked in an abortion mill—something snapped in her and she retrieved one of the babies that had been thrown into a bin to die (the person who told me the story said something about a Downs Syndrome baby), and held it for 45 minutes until it finally expired. That she said something like, “I wanted to offer what comfort I could.”

Sorry that I can’t attribute—just a story someone told me over the weekend.

:crying:
 
Sailor_Kenshin said:
I just heard the most heartbreaking story about a nurse who worked in an abortion mill—something snapped in her and she retrieved one of the babies that had been thrown into a bin to die (the person who told me the story said something about a Downs Syndrome baby), and held it for 45 minutes until it finally expired. That she said something like, “I wanted to offer what comfort I could.”

Sorry that I can’t attribute—just a story someone told me over the weekend.

:crying:
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Look at the link on post 324 of this thread. The video is there on that same page once you click on the link.
 
dmelosi said:
Look at the link on post 324 of this thread. The video is there on that same page once you click on the link.
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I just watched that and it is beyond sad to even think that this happens in this country. God help us
 
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