Nathan Phillips rally attempted to disrupt Mass at DC’s National Shrine

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vz71 said:
As long as he is effective in the fight against abortion, he deserves them.
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This is only true if you disregard this:
As Catholics we are not single-issue voters. A candidate’s position on a single issue is not sufficient to guarantee a voter’s support.
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http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-act...ciences-for-faithful-citizenship-part-one.cfm

I understand why people vote for him over the issue of abortion alone, but it is not something that is deserved or automatic.
vz71 said:
Am I the only one to notice this pattern…
Everyone is told never to vote for the conservative pro-life candidate because they are just paying lip service to get the votes.
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I have not noticed this with anyone who has been consistently moral and anti-abortion. Most conservatives, and most Republicans, have a long history of opposing abortion.
 
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phujosh said:
Based on my observation, it seems like Catholics are told to put all of their hopes and trusts in the hands of politicians but do not use some major religious, Catholic spiritual warfare means for the transformation of the culture of death to the culture of life.
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Exactly, and an example is how can a person claim to be Pro-Life and yet still believe in capital punishment, which the Church has condemned, and offensive military attacks like we did on “shock & awe”, which violated our Just-War Theory going all the way back to Augustine. All too many Catholics, imo, pick & choose what they consider as being “Pro-Life”.
 
phujosh said:
How can we change the hearts and minds of people for the end of abortion, to change the culture of death to life when we can’t even change the heart and mind of a pitiful ignorant gentile?
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Who are you talking about?
The pro life side is full of people who have been reached.
God changes hearts and minds every day.
 
Metis1 said:
Exactly, and an example is how can a person claim to be Pro-Life and yet still believe in capital punishment, which the Church has condemned,
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The Church makes a moral distinction between the execution of a convicted murderer who has had full due process and the extra judicial killing of an innocent child. On the former, the Church recognizes that there is room for honest disagreement between people of good will.
Metis1 said:
offensive military attacks like we did on “shock & awe”, which violated our Just-War Theory going all the way back to Augustine.
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I can’t find where the Church has condemned, for example, the Allied bombing campaign of Germany during WW2, which was the first example of “shock and awe”.
 
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Guinness said:
I can’t find where the Church has condemned, for example, the Allied bombing campaign of Germany during WW2, which was the first example of “shock and awe”.
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Allow me to help.

Any act of war aimed indiscriminately at the destruction of entire cities of extensive areas along with their population is a crime against God and man himself. It merits unequivocal and unhesitating condemnation.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_...vat-ii_const_19651207_gaudium-et-spes_en.html
 
Metis1 said:
Exactly, and an example is how can a person claim to be Pro-Life and yet still believe in capital punishment, which the Church has condemned, and offensive military attacks like we did on “shock & awe”, which violated our Just-War Theory going all the way back to Augustine. All too many Catholics, imo, pick & choose what they consider as being “Pro-Life”.
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And what I find the most interesting and shocking among conservatives that I have talked to is that there isn’t really a unanimous or consensus agreement on their take on abortion.
  1. One Pro life conservative I have talked to who shares the beliefs with many other pro lifers in electing pro life politicians in hopes of appointing conservative judges in Supreme Court but does not want Roe v. Wade overturned … Ain’t that interesting and shocking! 😱
  2. Another believes that when Trump was elected, immediately, the rate of abortion dramatically decreased. This Pro life and anti abortion person shares the belief with a prominent conservative pro life woman leader(can’t remember her name) who said that Planned Parenthood should be defunded and thinks it is okay that abortion seeking women should pay for their own abortion, instead. More shocking! 😱
  3. Another one who is a friend of mine thought that abortion has become illegal and has completely stopped when Trump was elected. 🤣
  4. Like many here who hold and share this belief with another prominent Pro life conservative who owns a Catholic media and has appeared as a guess on EWTN said that abortion “is the scourge of our planet as the most grave sin and immoral sin you can do or support.” I debated with and refuted him that his statement is false and questioned his mastery on Catechism. He banned me as one of his followers. 🤣
 
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vz71 said:
If we are discussing how to reach people for the pro life cause, it most certainly matters to know if they are already pro life or not.
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Got it! And I was thinking about his conversion when I made that statement…
 
pnewton said:
Any act of war aimed indiscriminately at the destruction of entire cities of extensive areas along with their population is a crime against God and man himself.
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The Allied bombing campaign wasn’t aimed indiscriminately, it was aimed specifically at the Axis ability to wage war. A war, incidentally, that the Axis powers started and aimed indiscriminately at specific peoples, like Slavs, Poles, and Jews.
 
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When I was in seminary at Theological College during the NCCB annual conference and served as an altar server, it was not unusual to be laughed at, called disgusting names, and have stuff thrown at me when processing through the front entrance there. Most of it was done by “queer nation” abortionists, and general hecklers. To prevent theft of the eucharist, they usually had the biggest and burliest ushers watch the communion line.
 
Some maybe should read or reread what the Just-War Theory entails. Here’s some of it:

Catholic doctrine

The just war doctrine of the Catholic Church—sometimes mistaken as the “just war theory” found in the 1992 Catechism of the Catholic Church in paragraph 2309, lists four strict conditions for “legitimate defense by military force”

the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;

all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;

here must be serious prospects of success;

the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated (the power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition).-- Just war theory - Wikipedia
 
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