National Sunday Law Takes Affect!

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Here are some occupations that can’t be SDA either but SDA’s sure make use of their products.

Electrical Generation Plant employees unless of course you turn the power off at your house and your church on Saturday.
Perhaps it would be best to ask goitalone if an SDA may work on the Sabbath for a power plant. Since a Catholic may work at a power plant on a Sunday, I would initially assume that an SDA might be able to work in these occupations on a Sabbath if needed. After all, Catholics are supposed to not do unecessary work and shopping on a Sunday which must be similar for an SDA on a Saturday.

BTW, goitalone, do the SDA keep regulations about a “Sabbath’s journey” and don’t travel any real distance on the Sabbath?
 
Um…you totally have no clue what I was even trying to say there do you?
Perhaps it was your excessive use of question marks in post #197 which threw me.
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goitalone:
I have seen non-Catholics come here and use shouting caps and the multiple question mark/exclamation point tactic of debate before, which is always an indicator that the person is using distraction and intimidation because they feel they are losing an argument. Just an FYI. 👍
 
This is a good point… and in all actuality, EGW said it was instituted by the Pope in one place, then Constantine in another. Now, scholars like Samuele Bacchiocchi out forth that Sunday was being observed earlier than the end of the second century. When confronted with these contradictions and their inability to actually show what they teach actually took place, most SDA’s really have no clue as to the historical veracity of the statements by their church.
Here’s another thing: The early church fought tooth and nail against those who sought to corrupt the faith, and many chose martyrdom rather than altar their belief one iota. If the early Christians had worshipped on the Sabbath, and the change to the first day of the week had been introduced, I’m sure there would have been a hue and a cry from the faithful. Yet the SDA claim the Church meekly went along with it ‘the real Christians’ disappeared underground until the reformation.

Incidentally, the only ‘proof’ the SDA puts forward for this ‘underground church’ are the Waldensians and Albigensians, who didn’t appear on the scene until almost a thousand years after Constantine.

Regarding the Albigensians: Where I live, there’s a local rural paper that once published an article supposedly about the medieval troubadors, but basically bashed the Catholic Church for persecuting the Albigensians, who were ‘Evangelical Christians.’ I wrote a letter to the editor (which was published) politely explaining that the Albigensians were not evangelicals; instead it was a dualist heresy that considered marriage and having children a sin, and considered suicide a virtue; and that such a system was a threat to the very fabric of society, which is why the Church and state came down hard on it.
 
The anti-Catholic trash being spouted in the SDA booklet on this subject only made Catholicism look more appealing in my mind.😛
 
I don’t know everything about the SDAs, but from their literature, it seems that you should not work the Sabbath or- else. Of course, they may not have mentioned exeptions (nurses, doctors, etc. What about the military?).

A question for you though. I’ve come across religious tracts and publications from a variety of churches- Catholic, Protestant, JW, and they are all pretty open and upfront about their affiliation. Yet, SDA literature never has the word “adventist” in it. I usually can tell when it’s SDA when I see Sabbath or a E.G. White mentioned, or claims that the “Pope is antichrist” or Catholics worship Mary" or similar blarney. If the SDAs are the true church as they claim, what are they hiding?

Another thing. In E.G. White’s ‘Great Controversy’ she claims Sunday worship was instituted by Constantine, yet I and another poster gave a number of references showing that Sunday worship was followed by Christians long before Constantine. Yet, you made no effort to refute them.
Because these are not at all very easy questions to be answered, but I have asked these questions for you to someone who knows tons more than I could even pray to be able to explain personally.

And this is his reply to you for me since he is much more grounded than I in these facts and matters:

Sunday worship was instituted by Constantine as a CHRISTIAN DAY OF
WORSHIP FOR THE ENTIRE ROMAN EMPIRE, following his Christianizing of
the entire Roman Empire. But in doing so, he merely transferred the
association of the ealier Pagan Sunday to Christianity. Sunday had
been the ages-old Pagan day of worship.

It is true that very early, perhaps as early as the second century,
Christians began to honor Sunday in recognition of Christ’s
resurrection. The drift to Sunday worship from Sabbathkeeping was
accellerated by the strong opposition by Jews against Christianity,
in conjunction with the extreme negative reputation of Jews in the
Roman civilization following their persistent revoltis, resulting in
defeats of the Jews in AD 70 and 135.

We have discussed this history, with abundant postings of documents.
The history is well documented, but also extremely distorted by
Christian historians of the present day insistent upon making a SOLA
SCRIPTURA case from history that the Apostolic Church immediately
began keeping Sunday, historical nonsense which Catholic scholarship
never stooped to, but fallen protestantism, in the dust, discovered
to be not beneath their dignity to raise.

In other words, SDA is hiding nothing, rather on the contrary,
Protestant scholarship has spared no artifice, sensing no shame in
its unscholarly twisting of ancient records, quoting out of time and
context, in fabricating a Sola Scriptura case for Apostolic
Sundaykeeping. Only recently has the Papacy found it useful to give
lip service to this fabrication which for centuries they had denied,
on still solid grounds.

As to our SDA bashfulness in revealing our identity, this is partly
the fault of our insecurity in our own doctrines. We have been
attacked from without and from within, and this has led to
insecurity, causing us to hide our identity. On the contrary, we
have the best possible Biblical and historical the two go hand in
hand
case, but it seems we have few scholars devoting time in
apologetics, exegisis, and eschatology, with a solid background in
history, to present these matters. We have a few brilliant
exceptions> LeRoy Edwin Froom in Church History, achieving world
class status in his Prophetic Faith of our Fathers, and
Conditionalist Faith of our Fathers sets of volumes. Then Edwin R.
Thiele set the world benchmark in cracking the code of the chronology
of the Hebrew Kings, which has remained the world standard to this
day. And Hans K. LaRondelle has written marvelously debunking
dispensationalism, in his benchmark classic, The Israel of God in
Prophecy. Among other world-renowned scholars are Siegfried H. Horn,
and the entire Andrews University school of Archeology, world leaders.
There are a number of other world-class scholars among us. But among
our scholars are a flock of doubters in our fundamental doctrines,
which have retarded the work.

I would agree that our detractors have poisoned our welcome, from the
Jehovah\s Witnesses and Mormons going door to door ahead of us and
behind us, to the massive internet propaganda against Ellen White in
particular and the SDA Church and its doctrines in general.

This forum does not fear these challenges. We know we have a
superior message, firmly grounded in the Bible and History.

Villis
 
Perhaps it was your excessive use of question marks in post #197 which threw me.

I have seen non-Catholics come here and use shouting caps and the multiple question mark/exclamation point tactic of debate before, which is always an indicator that the person is using distraction and intimidation because they feel they are losing an argument. Just an FYI. 👍
Again you miss the sarcasim of it.

I wasn’t shouting for real…I have no reason to.
 
SDAs make exceptions for some types of work. You’re arguements do not hold water with SDAs. They certainly recognize that some work cannot be avoided and are practical about such things. You might also note that SDA’s are opposed to being in the military except for positions such as medic.
Yes that is absolutely correct.
 
A good point Joey, this is yet another inconsistency in the SDA Sabbath doctrine. However, if they kept the Sabbath as was directed in scripture, this would not be a problem. But they prefer to use scripture only when it suits, i.e. use the OT to show we must keep the Sabbath, but then ignore the OT when it comes to how to keep the Sabbath.
Sadly, That is just your own insightful/uninsightful (take yer pick 😉 ) opinion.
 
It’s a language problem.

In Catholicism there is Prayer and then there’s prayer.

There was a time in the English Language were to pray simply meant to ask. Simular to the word “gay”. There was a time in the English Language that to be gay simply meant to be happy.

In Catholicism there is Prayer: note the “P”. This is to God and God alone because that is worship.

Then there is prayer: note the “p” which is simply to ask the Mary and/or the Saints in Heaven to pray for us.

We all are brother and sisters in Christ; I pray for my brothers and sisters in Christ because they need me to pray for them.

Friends of mine will call me daily and ask me to pray to God for them. Friends will email me daily and ask me to pray to God for them.

Catholicism believes that those in Heaven can “hear” us; and they can also pray for us. So to pray to a saint, simply means to ask them to pray to God for you; very similar to calling a church member and asking them to pray to God for you.

Do you call members of your church and ask them to pray for you?
 
I wanted to say while I am thinking about it tho that I love all of you people.

I felt myself getting angry a couple of times a a little and I said some things I felt were a bit “out” of that anger and I know that wasn’t right.

So I am apologizing now to any who that may have offended or applied to.

Been an interesting discussion nevertheless, to me personally, and I hope some you as well.
 
It’s a language problem.

In Catholicism there is Prayer and then there’s prayer.

There was a time in the English Language were to pray simply meant to ask. Simular to the word “gay”. There was a time in the English Language that to be gay simply meant to be happy.

In Catholicism there is Prayer: note the “P”. This is to God and God alone because that is worship.

Then there is prayer: note the “p” which is simply to ask the Mary and/or the Saints in Heaven to pray for us.

We all are brother and sisters in Christ; I pray for my brothers and sisters in Christ because they need me to pray for them.

Friends of mine will call me daily and ask me to pray to God for them. Friends will email me daily and ask me to pray to God for them.

Catholicism believes that those in Heaven can “hear” us; and they can also pray for us. So to pray to a saint, simply means to ask them to pray to God for you; very similar to calling a church member and asking them to pray to God for you.

Do you call members of your church and ask them to pray for you?
Yes but the fact remains that Mary is dead and not in Heaven.

The Bible cleary teaches the dead know not anything so to pray to the dead…well…I just won’t be doing any of that personally I tell you that right now.

This is what a former Catholic wrote which explains what I mean very well I believe:

I Stopped Praying To Mary

Mary was blessed by…

Read the rest here:

christianblogs.christianet.com/1138471124.htm
 
I wanted to say while I am thinking about it tho that I love all of you people.

I felt myself getting angry a couple of times a a little and I said some things I felt were a bit “out” of that anger and I know that wasn’t right.

So I am apologizing now to any who that may have offended or applied to.

Been an interesting discussion nevertheless, to me personally, and I hope some you as well.
Apology accepted. And you are forgiven for the Ignorant comment about me.
 
Again you miss the sarcasim of it.

I wasn’t shouting for real…I have no reason to.
Thanks for eliminating the CAPS, the excessive use of question marks and the sarcasm. Now it may be possible to have productive dialogue. 👍
 
Yes but the fact remains that Mary is dead and not in Heaven.

The Bible cleary teaches the dead know not anything so to pray to the dead…well…I just won’t be doing any of that personally I tell you that right now.

This is what a former Catholic wrote which explains what I mean very well I believe:

I Stopped Praying To Mary

Mary was blessed by…

Read the rest here:

christianblogs.christianet.com/1138471124.htm
Where are you going when you die?
Where is the theif that was on the cross next to Jesus?
 
Yes but the fact remains that Mary is dead and not in Heaven.

The Bible cleary teaches the dead know not anything so to pray to the dead…well…I just won’t be doing any of that personally I tell you that right now.

This is what a former Catholic wrote which explains what I mean very well I believe:

I Stopped Praying To Mary

Mary was blessed by…

Read the rest here:

christianblogs.christianet.com/1138471124.htm
Again if I want to learn what Catholicism teaches then I go to THEIR web-pages. example: usccb.org/catechism/text/

Just like if I want to learn what Adventist teaches I go to THEIR web-pages. example: adventist.org/

Would you listen or take to heart the things that ex-adventist have to say about your religion? Would you say the ex-adventist paint a TRUE picture of your religion?

If you answer NO then why should understand why I do NOT take the time to listen to what ex-catholics have to say about Catholicism I, personally believe that ex-catholics paint a FALSE picture of Catholicism.

Thanks and God Bless
 
The Bible cleary teaches the dead know not anything so to pray to the dead…well…I just won’t be doing any of that personally I tell you that right now.
What is your take on what is happening when Jesus talks with Moses and Elijah in Matt. 17:1-3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30-31?

I can’t find anything that suggests God abhors or cuts off communication between the living in heaven and the living on earth. Can you show me where the Scriptures say that?

And how do you interpret Rev. 5:8 and Rev. 8:3-4? I’m really curious what these passages mean to you.
 
Yes but the fact remains that Mary is dead and not in Heaven.

The Bible cleary teaches the dead know not anything so to pray to the dead…well…I just won’t be doing any of that personally I tell you that right now.

This is what a former Catholic wrote which explains what I mean very well I believe:

I Stopped Praying To Mary

Mary was blessed by…

Read the rest here:

christianblogs.christianet.com/1138471124.htm
What is going on with Jesus, Moses and Elijah in the transfiguration?

Peace,
David
 
You pray to her [Mary] do you not?
giggles um, there is a slight diffrence of word usage here. Mr. goitalone, when a Catholic says that he/she “Prays” to Mary, or to any other saint it is meant in an older sense as simply to “ask”. We are asking her to do something, Namly to take a patition to Jesus for us.
Similar to going to you asking Brother Bentzenger who sits down the pew from you (as most all Christians do) to pray to Jesus for you over a big meeting with you boss at the end of the week. You would not catagorize that as worshiping Brother Bentzenger.
Now I know that Seventh-Day Adventist beleive in Soul Sleep but, I would prefer to hold off on that for another thread.
 
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