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cestusdei
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drdude, so you worship on SATURNSday.
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amills
Guest
Drdude:
You took selected versus out of the bible to indicate that you were teaching biblical truth.
Catholics do not read the bible in that manner. Catholics interprete the Bible as a whole with emphasis on the teachings of Christ. Christ never told the Gentiles to keep the Sabbath.
In addition Catholics adhere to sacred tradition as passed down from the apostles. Those traditions tell us that from the time of the Ressurection - Christians considered that the old Covenant with the Jews was fulfilled and there was a new covenant in place. They specifically worshipped on the eight day celebrate and indicated in very early documents used by the Church.
On the other hand this idea of a Saturday Sabbath was actually invented in the 1800s. Ellen White tries to identify groups that maintained the Sabbath but her information is historically wrong - not even just inaccurate but outright wrong. Adventists are not a remnant of anything and have never been able to even show such.
You took selected versus out of the bible to indicate that you were teaching biblical truth.
Catholics do not read the bible in that manner. Catholics interprete the Bible as a whole with emphasis on the teachings of Christ. Christ never told the Gentiles to keep the Sabbath.
In addition Catholics adhere to sacred tradition as passed down from the apostles. Those traditions tell us that from the time of the Ressurection - Christians considered that the old Covenant with the Jews was fulfilled and there was a new covenant in place. They specifically worshipped on the eight day celebrate and indicated in very early documents used by the Church.
On the other hand this idea of a Saturday Sabbath was actually invented in the 1800s. Ellen White tries to identify groups that maintained the Sabbath but her information is historically wrong - not even just inaccurate but outright wrong. Adventists are not a remnant of anything and have never been able to even show such.
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pedja
Guest
What then did He tell them, which day to keep holy?
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jsenner
Guest
John Bunyan who wrote Pilgrim’s Progress also wrote a paper refuting the 7th day people in his time. I would have to agree in general that there have been groups throughout history who wanted to observe the 7th day as a Sabbath. Almost invariably, however, they were consistent and also kept the rest of the Jewish calendar, as well as other Old Covenant laws. This idea is probably even what Paul had in mind when he wrote the book of Galatians. It is very easy to see the same group of people mentioned in Acts 15 also preaching their false gospel to the Galatians. “You must be circumcised and keep the law”.
Jeremiah
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jsenner
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pedja
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All this applies only if the 7th day Sabbath observance day is a purely Jewish thing.
But it`s not!
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MarysRoses
Guest
If its not, then show us your documentation. Explain where in the bible there is a distinction made between laws still in effect and laws that are not. (you won’t find it.).
As far as what day we should keep holy, like St. Paul says, it is TODAY. Christ is our sabbath rest. We no more have to observe sabbath days than we have to circumcise our boys. Or keep kosher laws of diet and dress. Are you wearing fringed underwear? Do you wear cotton/wool/linen blends? If you don’t keep all of the law, you are guilty of all.
Sunday from ancient times has been the day of Christian assembly and celebration of the resurrection. It is not the old sabbath on a new day. It is a new day for a new covenant and a new creation. Not one we keep because of a command of law, but because Christians wanted to celebrate what God had done for them and the day of Christ’s resurrection seemed good to them.
Adventists make the mistake some early Jewish Christians did. They were looking for laws to keep to show that they were different from others instead of celebrating their freedom in Christ.
Adventists often mistakenly see the roots of a Sunday law in the Catholic Sunday mass obligation. That is a matter of Church discipline, not obligatory for non Catholics and the idea it would become a civil law doesn’t make sense. Catholics as well as Adventists support laws ensuring religious freedom.
MarysRoses
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Jedda
Guest
In Alabama you still cant buy alcohol on Sunday…
I dont think we should be forced, unless there is clear biblical proof.
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pedja
Guest
How can Sabbath be Jewish when it was kept by Adam, Abraham, Moses etc. Were they all Jewish? Also there is not one single phrase “jewish sabbath” in the whole Bible. It is always “Lord`s Sabbath”.
Jesus said “Sabbath was made for man”! Not “Sabbath was made for the Jews”
The 7th day of the week (Sabbath) created by Jesus Himself has nothing to do with those ceremonial laws!!! I could ask you the same question, since we are not under the law, do you commit adultery? Do you steal? Do you kill?
So what? How is that proof that because they sometimes asembled on Sundays, God`s commandment has changed?!
Yes, some Christians celebrate what God has done for them, created a day of rest, a day that Christians should remember God`s creation!
Show where in Bible does it say that we should NOT keep the law any longer!!
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jsenner
Guest
In about 150 A.D St Justin the Martyr had a dialogue with Trypho the Jew. Justin said that neither Adam nor Abraham nor Moses kept the Sabbath until God commanded it after Israel left Egypt, as recorded in Exodus 16. Amazingly, Trypho agreed! John Bunyan made the same point in his paper on the subject.
There is the phrase “Jew’s preparation” referring probably to Friday which occurs sometime around 96 A.D. in the writings of St John. Other Christian writings make it clear that Sabbath was not being kept by Gentile Christians at that point in history, except of course for those abberant groups of judaizers.
Jeremiah
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jsenner
Guest
“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, ye must be circumcised and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:” Acts 15:24 KJV
Jeremiah
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MarysRoses
Guest
Please show actual documentation that they did, Ellen White says that they did, and Adventists infer that they did, but there is no evidence that they did until the time of moses.
You left off the second half, “not man for the sabbath”. This changes the entire impression of the sentence. Some things were more important than the sabbath, even while Jesus still lived on earth. Notice He did not take this opportunity to emphasize sabbath keeping, as He could have if He had wanted to, if He considered it something of continuing importance to Christians.
Where in the bible is there a distinction between some laws that remain and some that are only ceremonial? The law for Christians is to “love one another”, that amply covers killing, stealing and lying, etc. I fail to see however, how judging one another over a day of worship constitutes loving one another.
For Christians, the Good News is the Resurrection, not the creation. Sunday is a memorial of the resurrection and NEW creation, not the old creation and the old covenant.
Someone’s already taken care of this one
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amills
Guest
Jesus’s resurrection on Sunday and his appearance to the disciples on the Lord’s day spoke volumes to the early Christians.
As documented in the epistle of Banabas, “and we too rejoice in celebrating the eighth day; because that was when Jesus rose from the dead”
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drdude
Guest
I never thought I would say this, but it is true. No where in the Bible does it say that Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph or any patriarch or prophet kept the Sabbath or 10 commandments.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Abraham did not need the law, he had faith.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Rom 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
If we put faith in Jesus we become the seed of Abrahm, heirs according to the promise.
I did lots of studying, and I even question my church (SDA).
God Bless
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Abraham did not need the law, he had faith.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Rom 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
If we put faith in Jesus we become the seed of Abrahm, heirs according to the promise.
I did lots of studying, and I even question my church (SDA).
God Bless
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drdude
Guest
I should have said "No where in the Bible does it mention that any of the patriarchs or prophets kept the 10 commandments prior to the Israelites at Mt. Sinai. Sorry just wanted to be accurate.
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drdude
Guest
After studying the Bible over and over and praying to God for the Holy Spirit to please guide me. I think I am beginning to see a different light. I am beginning to question the Sabbath as a requirment for salvation. I am not all there yet, but I believe the Holy Spirit is slowly starting to reveal more to me as I continue to study the scripture. I definately don’t believe that God will punish us for eating Pork and some other SDA traditions.
I would like to apologize to all for all any attacks that I may have made on this forum as I was just stuck in that typical SDA role. I am not going to say that SDA is totally wrong on some issues, but I’m not sure if they are the remnant church as they claim. Sorry Catholic members but I still disagree with many of your doctrines as well. But I do not wish to argue with anyone based on what Churches say. I will only rely on the Holy Scripture and as always I will look at what other denominations believe and put them to the test using the scripture.
Wow, I came on here thinking I can put some to the test, in the end I put myself to the test.
Are any of you willing to continue studies based on Scripture alone and see what is revealed to us and put aside any denominational traditions. I’m sure we may disagree on alot but I don’t mind, I just want to find truth.
God Bless.
I would like to apologize to all for all any attacks that I may have made on this forum as I was just stuck in that typical SDA role. I am not going to say that SDA is totally wrong on some issues, but I’m not sure if they are the remnant church as they claim. Sorry Catholic members but I still disagree with many of your doctrines as well. But I do not wish to argue with anyone based on what Churches say. I will only rely on the Holy Scripture and as always I will look at what other denominations believe and put them to the test using the scripture.
Wow, I came on here thinking I can put some to the test, in the end I put myself to the test.
Are any of you willing to continue studies based on Scripture alone and see what is revealed to us and put aside any denominational traditions. I’m sure we may disagree on alot but I don’t mind, I just want to find truth.
God Bless.
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Mommyof02green
Guest
Dr Dude-
Being lead by the Holy Spirit and the TRUTH is all that I seek!
(That is what many of us just seek)
Many times I say this simple prayer through out the day…
“Love of Jesus fill me; Holy Spirit guide me; Will of the Father be done”.
Good Luck with your journey!
God Bless!
Being lead by the Holy Spirit and the TRUTH is all that I seek!
(That is what many of us just seek)Many times I say this simple prayer through out the day…
“Love of Jesus fill me; Holy Spirit guide me; Will of the Father be done”.
Good Luck with your journey!
God Bless!
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cestusdei
Guest
It’s good you are willing to be open minded, but your request is to simply take the Bible alone. We can’t do that. The Bible is the written part of our Tradition, but it does not stand alone. The Bible itself never says that it alone is all you need. But I promise you this, if you read the Bible the way it was originally intended to be read you will see the basis for Catholic teaching. But no one reads the Bible “alone”, there is always some template or tradition that is part of their reading.
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amills
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I am glad you are open-minded. The Holy Spirit certainly does lead us in ways we never expected. We would love to continue to discuss with you. Although Catholics do not accept the concept of “Bible Alone” I think that we can show you that all of our beliefs are scriptural and that you will not find a single belief in the Catholic Church that is contrary to scripture.
And you are right in that SDAs are not entirely wrong. As a matter of fact the Catholics accept their baptism. There are many other similarities.
May God Bless you on your journey.
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jsenner
Guest
I was where you are right now, about 4-5 years ago. If you haven’t been there yet, check out the forums on formeradventist.com. That is where most of the Bible-only action is happening right now. Over there, we may seem rather tough on SDAism… it’s a natural reaction to being fooled and then finding out.
There’s no problem with your sola scriptura view right now. There’s enough in the Bible to cause a person to question the SDA view on things, if the SDA goggles are removed. All you need to be is open to finding truth. After seeing what you are starting to see right now, I prayed for years for God to show me His Church, if there still was a true church… you may wish to do the same.
Jeremiah
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