Nativity Fast

[Aramis]

ConstantineTG:

The Byzantine fasting is primarly about self-denial. Picking something to give up, and then following through.

The Traditional fast uses abstaining from meat, milk, wine, oil, and eggs as the starting point. If one’s Spiritual Father feels one ready, one adds some or all of the following: additional prayers, skipping one meal a day, reducing meal sizes, penitential clothing, more rigid prayer postures.

It’s not that skipping or reducing meal sizes isn’t part of Byzantine praxis; its that the initial requirements are set to a different baseline.

 

[ConstantineTG]

ConstantineTG:

The Byzantine fasting is primarly about self-denial. Picking something to give up, and then following through.

The Traditional fast uses abstaining from meat, milk, wine, oil, and eggs as the starting point. If one’s Spiritual Father feels one ready, one adds some or all of the following: additional prayers, skipping one meal a day, reducing meal sizes, penitential clothing, more rigid prayer postures.

It’s not that skipping or reducing meal sizes isn’t part of Byzantine praxis; its that the initial requirements are set to a different baseline.

Awesome! Thanks for clearing that up

 

[ciero]

Awesome! Thanks for clearing that up

The Byzantine thing is NOT to pick something and give it up (sounds like lent for an 8 year old). It is about following the fasting tradition of the church. It is NOT a do it yourself thing, it is the church fasting together.

 

[Aramis]

The Byzantine thing is NOT to pick something and give it up (sounds like lent for an 8 year old). It is about following the fasting tradition of the church. It is NOT a do it yourself thing, it is the church fasting together.

It’s actually more of “Work with your Spiritual Father to figure out what you need to give up.” In many cases, the abstinance is mitigated, and other piuis praxis provided.

The traditional fast is, as I said, a starting point. For many, who find it too hard, it’s mitigated. For others, additional things are added.

 

[ciero]

It’s actually more of “Work with your Spiritual Father to figure out what you need to give up.” In many cases, the abstinance is mitigated, and other piuis praxis provided.

The traditional fast is, as I said, a starting point. For many, who find it too hard, it’s mitigated. For others, additional things are added.

What I’m trying to say here is that the fasting traditions are the NORM. In most parts of the Byzantine world (read Orthodox countries) the fast is hardly ever mitigated. Mitagation of the fast seems to be a very American thing, kind of goes along with the individualistic tendencies of American culture in general. I have discussed this with priests and monks in Greece, Russia and Romania during my trips there last lent, they were all amazed at how often the fast is mitigated here here in the US.

I had a business lunch with a woman from Georgia (republic not state) yesterday. She was appalled to hear that people here in the US tend to make up their own fast rather then follow the traditions of the church.
I guess anything is better then nothing.

 

[ConstantineTG]

What I’m trying to say here is that the fasting traditions are the NORM. In most parts of the Byzantine world (read Orthodox countries) the fast is hardly ever mitigated. Mitagation of the fast seems to be a very American thing, kind of goes along with the individualistic tendencies of American culture in general. I have discussed this with priests and monks in Greece, Russia and Romania during my trips there last lent, they were all amazed at how often the fast is mitigated here here in the US.

I had a business lunch with a woman from Georgia (republic not state) yesterday. She was appalled to hear that people here in the US tend to make up their own fast rather then follow the traditions of the church.
I guess anything is better then nothing.

Speaking of fasting being part of culture, one thing I miss in the Philippines is that when its Lent, all restaurants will carry a Lenten menu or entree. Even fastfood chains like McDonalds will do special promotions for the Fillet O’Fish.

I think one reason this modern concept of following a different kind of fasting is the reason for fasting was not taught very well. I’ve always been taught that fasting is about giving up the comforts, knowing how to live like the poor. Given the cultural context in the Philippines where there is a huge economic divide between the rich and the poor (common in 3rd world countries) so being like the poor is indeed a sacrifice for the rich. Then came the question why is eating fish poor-like when fish costs more than meat. So now enter this modern concept of giving something else up for Lent, which now I learn came from the US.

 

[Aramis]

Speaking of fasting being part of culture, one thing I miss in the Philippines is that when its Lent, all restaurants will carry a Lenten menu or entree. Even fastfood chains like McDonalds will do special promotions for the Fillet O’Fish.

I think one reason this modern concept of following a different kind of fasting is the reason for fasting was not taught very well. I’ve always been taught that fasting is about giving up the comforts, knowing how to live like the poor. Given the cultural context in the Philippines where there is a huge economic divide between the rich and the poor (common in 3rd world countries) so being like the poor is indeed a sacrifice for the rich. Then came the question why is eating fish poor-like when fish costs more than meat. So now enter this modern concept of giving something else up for Lent, which now I learn came from the US.

Actually, it dates back centuries. It’s most common in the US, but there are references to alternate fasting going back centuries.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Actually, it dates back centuries. It’s most common in the US, but there are references to alternate fasting going back centuries.

I see. But in the Philippines the reason for turning that is the mentality that fasting is being like the poor. Of course today a kilo of fish is twice the price a kilo of pork, so what’s being poor about buying the more expensive meat?

I wonder if this being like the poor came from the Franciscans? I grew up going to a Franciscan run school and parish and we know that Franciscans are about giving up all material possessions.

 

[pipper]

I see. But in the Philippines the reason for turning that is the mentality that fasting is being like the poor. Of course today a kilo of fish is twice the price a kilo of pork, so what’s being poor about buying the more expensive meat?

I wonder if this being like the poor came from the Franciscans? I grew up going to a Franciscan run school and parish and we know that Franciscans are about giving up all material possessions.

I often wonder if the fasting regulations need updating. Like you said about fish costing more than pork. In the Eastern tradition shellfish is permitted anytime.

How can lobster be considered a sacrifice? It an expensive luxury.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I often wonder if the fasting regulations need updating. Like you said about fish costing more than pork. In the Eastern tradition shellfish is permitted anytime.

How can lobster be considered a sacrifice? It an expensive luxury.

My former pastor who of course is Roman Catholic had a wonderful explanation about abstaining from meat, why its helpful, and its not about being poor.

He says the human take things we do so ordinarily for granted. Sin oftentimes is a product of habits we built over time. Now what abstaining from something as ordinary as meat trains us is to be is that we consciously make an effort to skip over something ordinary to us. And if we get good at it with food, we get good at it with everything else in our lives. We become more conscious of the little habits we have that lead us to sin, and therefore we also learn to abstain from them.

 

[Formosus]

I, for my part, follow the guidelines published by my particular church. Which has several different ways of doing the fast. Some fairly lenient all the way to the strict monastic fast. I do not think I am in the wrong by following guidelines set forth by my church’s authorities on how to do the Nativity Fast.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Is today a fast exempt day (Presentation of the Theotokos to the temple)

 

[ciero]

Is today a fast exempt day (Presentation of the Theotokos to the temple)

Today being a Sunday in the Nativity fast before the 12th of December means fish, wine and oil are permitted. If it was after 12 December then no fish. If the feast fell on a day other then Sunday, but not Wedneday or Friday then fish, wine and oil would have been permitted. On Wednesday or Friday just wine and oil.

In theByzantine tradition the fast is mitigated, but never completely dispensed.

 

[Vico]

Is today a fast exempt day (Presentation of the Theotokos to the temple)

No fasting, except for Eucharist, on Saturdays (with one exception) and Sundays in the Byzantine tradition.

 

[ConstantineTG]

No fasting, except for Eucharist, on Saturdays (with one exception) and Sundays in the Byzantine tradition.

Ah this makes more sense. Because there was meat served on Saturday and Sunday in the lunches I attended with the Eparchy. And the Bishop was there. Although I didn’t check his plate

 

[ciero]

Ah this makes more sense. Because there was meat served on Saturday and Sunday in the lunches I attended with the Eparchy. And the Bishop was there. Although I didn’t check his plate

Unfortunatly the Byzantine Catholic churches are not know for adhering to the traditional fasts. It’s kind of make it up as you go along.

 

[Vico]

Ah this makes more sense. Because there was meat served on Saturday and Sunday in the lunches I attended with the Eparchy. And the Bishop was there. Although I didn’t check his plate

Were you at a Ukrainian or Byzantine parish that time?

The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church particular laws specify following the penitential custom where you live. The Byzantine Catholic in the USA particular law has set a minimum fasting and abstinance, but we can always do more.

Outside the Great Fast, with it’s own practices, these churches abstain from meat on Fridays of the year and on the following days:
The Beheading of St. John the Baptist (August 29),
the Eve of Christmas (December 24),
the Eve of Theophany (January 5),
the Exaltation of the Holy Cross (September 14).

But also skip certain Fridays (the four fast-free weeks):

Nativity to Eve of Theophany
Week following the Sunday of the Publican and Pharisee
Bright Week (after Pascha)
Trinity Week (after Pentecost, untill All Saints Sunday).

Such days are noted on the Byzantine eparchial calendar.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Were you at a Ukrainian or Byzantine parish that time?

The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church particular laws specify following the penitential custom where you live. The Byzantine Catholic in the USA particular law has set a minimum fasting and abstinance, but we can always do more.

Outside the Great Fast, with it’s own practices, these churches abstain from meat on Fridays of the year and on the following days:
The Beheading of St. John the Baptist (August 29),
the Eve of Christmas (December 24),
the Eve of Theophany (January 5),
the Exaltation of the Holy Cross (September 14).

But also skip certain Fridays (the four fast-free weeks):

Nativity to Eve of Theophany
Week following the Sunday of the Publican and Pharisee
Bright Week (after Pascha)
Trinity Week (after Pentecost, untill All Saints Sunday).

Such days are noted on the Byzantine eparchial calendar.

I go to a UGCC parish. I know I’ve posted something similar in the Byzantine Fasting thread I started. The Eparchy does promote Philip’s Fast. From what I get from the event I was at, they encourage more of acts of charity, I don’t know if its a substitution for fasting or in addition to fasting.

 

[Vico]

I go to a UGCC parish. I know I’ve posted something similar in the Byzantine Fasting thread I started. The Eparchy does promote Philip’s Fast. From what I get from the event I was at, they encourage more of acts of charity, I don’t know if its a substitution for fasting or in addition to fasting.

In addition, well, to put on Christ: the ideal being prayer, alms, works of charity, and abstaining from sin (which is helped by control of the appetites).

OK, I forgot, you are in the Vancouver area. This (6 month 2010) calendar is for another UGCC eparchy (Philadelphia) and shows the fast days:

ukrarcheparchy.us/way/2010Calendar.pdf

 

[ciero]

In addition, well, to put on Christ: the ideal being prayer, alms, works of charity, and abstaining from sin (which is helped by control of the appetites).

OK, I forgot, you are in the Vancouver area. This (6 month 2010) calendar is for another UGCC eparchy (Philadelphia) and shows the fast days:

ukrarcheparchy.us/way/2010Calendar.pdf

Like I said they’re doing their own thing, NOT following the traditional rules but making it up. I don’t understand why we Catholics are so adverse to following the tradition. Everything needs to be dumbed down I don’t get it.