Nearly half of countries are producing too few babies to maintain their populations, say researchers

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So you don’t think there’s any limit implied? You think it is Gods will that we reproduce until the global population density is that of Tokyo? Why are we as Catholics suddenly hyper-literalists?

Have a blast. Hope I’ll be dead by the time we’re all living in this Soylent Green hellscape.
 
ATraveller said:
Nearly half of countries are producing too few babies to maintain their populations, say researchers.
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True, but in our neighborhood, the Muslim family across the street has six children, with more on the way. At the same time, in the local Catholic Church I see many families with two children. One lady said she cut her tubes so she would not have any more children. Muslims on the other hand seem to love children and have large families. Aren’t they the world’s fastest growing religion today? Israel is going to run into a problem as the Muslim Palestinians in Israel like to have large families.
 
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AlNg said:
Muslims on the other hand seem to love children and have large families. Aren’t they the world’s fastest growing religion today?
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It’s not a competition. I’m pretty sure the people you’re judging for having two kids also love children, or they would have zero. Conversely, the Duggars have 19 kids, but I wouldn’t exactly call them model Christians.
 
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This is the problem with taking one commandant and applying it with zero context or common sense. For one thing, if you take it hyper-literally, with no qualification, it runs squarely counter to the commandment that we be good stewards of creation. If God’s intent was for us to just burn through all our natural resources and then wait for him to miraculously fix it for us, there’d be no point in good stewardship.
 
Take a look at the birth rates in various countries around the world. Which country today has the highest birth rate in the world? The statistics I have seen place Niger at the top with more than 7 children per woman and what is the religion of Niger? Estimates range from 80 to 99 percent Muslim. Somalia has a birth rate of 6 children per woman and they are also predominantly Muslim. Similarly with Mali. Catholic countries such as Spain, Hungary, Poland or Portugal have birth rates of about 1.3 children per woman. Why do Catholics have so few children per family whereas Muslims have so many?
TheAmazingGrace said:
I’m pretty sure the people you’re judging for having two kids also love children
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I am not judging people, I am only reading what the statistics are saying.
 
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AlNg said:
Take a look at the birth rates in various countries around the world. Which country today has the highest birth rate in the world? The statistics I have seen place Niger at the top with more than 7 children per woman and what is the religion of Niger? Estimates range from 80 to 99 percent Muslim. Somalia has a birth rate of 6 children per woman and they are also predominantly Muslim. Similarly with Mali. Catholic countries such as Spain, Hungary, Poland or Portugal have birth rates of about 1.3 children per woman. Why do Catholics have so few children per family whereas Muslims have so many?
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You could ask which countries have the better quality of life. Which are more likely to experience famine, violence, pandemic, etc.

No one is arguing that people shouldn’t have children. But maybe there’s a happy, sustainable medium between 1.3 and 7.
 
AlNg said:
True. But you could also ask what is the religion of people who are having large families. And what is the religion of people who are having small families.
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No, I agree with you that, globally, on average, Muslims are probably having more children than Christians. I just think you’re drawing the wrong conclusion from that. I don’t think it follows that Christians should imitate Muslims and have, on average, 7 kids. I think it means Muslims should have fewer kids.
 
BoomBoomMancini said:
Because things like fresh water are finite. Yes, God could miraculously make more, but I don’t think it’s wise to assume that’s going to happen.
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Water is endlessly recycled.

Exploration for other natural resources has barely scratched the surface.

Energy is likewise endless … nuclear (uranium, thorium), solar. Coal for steam generation.
 
MonteRCMS said:
Water is endlessly recycled.
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That only works if the rate of renewal matches the rate of consumption. If water is naturally being replenished at the rate of x, and we’re using it at the rate of x+10, then that’s a problem.
 
AlNg said:
Catholic countries such as Spain, Hungary, Poland or Portugal have birth rates of about 1.3 children per woman. Why do Catholics have so few children per family whereas Muslims have so many?
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Probably because children in the countries you listed aren’t as likely to die before their fifth birthday.
 
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BoomBoomMancini said:
That only works if the rate of renewal matches the rate of consumption. If water is naturally being replenished at the rate of x, and we’re using it at the rate of x+10, then that’s a problem.
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Water is NOT “consumed”.
 
AlNg said:
True. But you could also ask what is the religion of people who are having large families. And what is the religion of people who are having small families.
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It’s irrelevant. The number of kids you have should be determined by how much energy and love you’re capable of giving them. Some people are naturally one-kid parents. Some people are naturally ten-kid parents. Some people are just not cut out for parenthood. Children are human beings who deserve the best their parents have to give: not collectibles that make you more virtuous the more you have.
 
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Substitute in any word you want. “Used”. If our population grows exponentially, which also increases the amount of water we need for agriculture, then eventually the rate of renewal can’t keep up.
 
Being a good steward does not mean worrying we will run out of resources. It means that we are called to care for our environment, and that includes reducing pollution. People are not pollution. They way they live can cause pollution, including the rampant use of medications which does pollute the water. Antidepressants, hormonal birth control, pain pills and others are found in the water supply at alarming numbers.

Animals also cause harm to the environment. They pollute water as well. They destroy and kill off entire species of one another. Even plants have been known to envade and take over areas. That’s what weeds do. It’s not just people that kill off plants and animals, but only people have the ability to make efforts to keep that from occurring.

Overpopulation has been shown many times to be a myth. We are not going to run out of the things necessary for survival, but we may need to change the way we live. God assures us that He will always provide for our needs, but our selfish desires to have it easily and quickly, of confusing needs and wants, need to be adjusted. If we live a moral life and follow His commands even when it is difficult or scary, peace and joy are gifted to us.
 
13pollitos said:
Being a good steward does not mean worrying we will run out of resources.
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That’s exactly what it means. If I entrusted money with you to invest for me, and you burned through it in a wild Vegas weekend, you would have not have been a good steward of my money. And I’d probably be annoyed if you came back and said “well, I just figured you could always give me more…”
 
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A family of 3 can (and normally does) “burn through” resources (and money) than larger families. Population isn’t the problem.
 
We’re not talking about individual families being frugal or not. We’re talking about societal averages. What’s healthiest is for a society to have a rate of slow, sustained growth/replacement overall. obviously, you’ll have some unusually large families that balance out others who don’t have kids.

But the default can’t be everyone has a softball team.
 
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