Nearly half of countries are producing too few babies to maintain their populations, say researchers

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Cruciferi said:
We shall go to the stars. Humanity is meant to fill the Cosmos. Earth is only the beginning.
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Honestly, this was me reading this thread:


I probably should have stopped reading, but it’s like a car wreck. You just can’t look away.
 
ATraveller said:
According to this NASA paper, the Earth could support 14 - 40 billion people.
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Probably could, but at what cost? How many more acres of forest, plains, and desert shall we wipe out for new housing, farms, or other human activities? How much more fauna and flora shall we destroy?
 
HerCrazierHalf said:
Probably could, but at what cost? How many more acres of forest, plains, and desert shall we wipe out for new housing, farms, or other human activities? How much more fauna and flora shall we destroy?
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We’re not going to end up in such a situation. But even if we’re close to it, it doesn’t have to be like that. Land usage policies in many places, particularly in North America is atrocious. Luckily, most places don’t follow what we do.
 
Actually, the plan is not to harvest algae from the ocean, but rather to farm it in vats. Since algae grows well in sewage, it has the added benefit of cleaning up wastewater. In fact, the whole Asian Carp problem in the Midwest was caused by them escaping containment during Hurricane Katrina; the carp had been imported for use as a biocontrol against algae blooms in sewage treatment plant effluents.
 
And I think you’re totally out of touch with reality. It’s not the industrialized nations who produce the bulk of pollution, but rather developing countries. Why? Because people will tolerate pollution if it means having food and shelter, but once they’re rich enough to feel secure in their necessities, they quickly regard pollution as a problem threatening their health. Once people can afford to eat well, they focus on securing safe water supplies for drinking and hygiene, necessarily involving a proper sewage system. Such investment pays massive dividends, as it improves not only life expectancy but also worker productivity, as people lose fewer days to illness, which in turn makes mitigation of air pollution affordable.
 
Evaporate off the brine and collect the resulting salt. Plenty of food manufacturers are willing to buy sea salt.
 
ATraveller said:
We’re not going to end up in such a situation
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But that is exactly the situation we are already in, with vast areas of forest being destroyed all over the world and biodiversity declining.

People argue here that the planet can support more people: of course it can, for the time being. But at what cost to the rest of life?
 
I finally have the time to try this post again. Sorry, I really wasn’t avoiding you. Life for moms sometimes is crazy!
BoomBoomMancini said:
If our resources will never run out, why should we bother to conserve? Waste all the water and oil you want.
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Waste is never good. It is something God seems to really be annoyed about. Wasting resources, and waste in general, is spoken of many times in the Old Testament, and it seems Jesus reconfirmed this in the New Testament. The story of feeding the multitude comes to mind. After Jesus fed such a large crowd on such a small amount (a sign of His providence to us), he asked for the leftovers to be collected so that nothing is wasted.
BoomBoomMancini said:
You and I might quibble on what the number of the unsustainable tipping point is. I’m just trying to see if we can agree that there is, in fact, some number. I mean, to get real weird with it, surely you’d agree that 100 trillion people could not survive on Earth?
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Honestly I don’t know the answer to this. My deeply personal belief is that no, God would not allow that to occur. There are many things that seem to confirm this to me. One of course is the Flood of Noah. He wiped humanity down to nothing to begin anew. Other signs are wars, famines, diseases, and other plagues that have also drastically reduced numbers. The falls of many civilizations following long periods of greed, waste, and other sinful behaviors that became ingrained in their cultures have been followed by a thinning of humanity and a rebirth of sorts also seem to support this belief that God won’t allow the population to outgrow our home.

I’ve also seen His generosity extended beyond imagination, in ways that can’t be explained. These are times that I have somehow fed my family plus several unexpected guests on the same amount of food that I prepare JUST for my family. Usually with plenty of leftovers. An example not from my family is a former neighbor who was fleeing an abusive spouse. She somehow made it across six states to reach her parents on one tank of gas and $15 cash. She and her 4 children made it safely. Advances in agriculture have made it possible to grow crops in environments and conditions that would have been unthinkable, and they are always researching for more ways to improve production and safety. The fact that we no longer gather food readily available (dandelions, insects, wild strawberries, are just the very tip of what is out there for free) and most don’t even know how to recognize what is edible shows how easily we are supporting the current population.
 
Continued from above

God does and will provide IF we allow Him to. The sinfulness of man and our pride makes us believe we need better, deserve more, and should be allowed to cast aside and discard what we no longer desire. That is where our downfall will come from. And it also creates an internal conflict for me. I trust very deeply that God will provide and care for us, but the ones who accept this, the poor especially, are the first to suffer the results of humanitiy’s sins. God’s ways of helping us are not always (honestly usually aren’t) the ways I want. It is often through sacrifice, suffering, and heartbreak that His comfort is shown. I am human and don’t want to experience that. I believe the righteous are rewarded in heaven, but I don’t want them to suffer here on earth either. It is very hard. So I try to allieviate suffering as best I can for the ones I meet and I attempt to live God’s laws as best I can to maybe mitigate some of the “punishments” for the greed, waste and destruction. Punishments really isn’t the word but I don’t know what to call it. The punishments are more like natural consequences for not doing what we should, not directly from the Hand of God.

Sorry this was so long, but I thought you deserved an answer.
 
To be brutally honest, last night was such a crazy night at my house, I was considering the fact that my own home is overpopulated! Between two fussy babies recovering from shots, two teens with their running around, an adult child whose car broke down on her way home, and a husband that is out of town, I was kind of rethinking all this. But then this morning my kids made me breakfast and insisted on taking the day off from everything to just be home together after Mass, and I remembered how blessed I am. The world is a better place when we have lots of love to surround us with.
 
If you look at the developing countries of the world, you will see a paradigm shift. The agrarian countries still see children as a source of labor while the other developing countries who are moving towards industrialization are starting to see children as an expense. These countries are following the footsteps of the Western countries who have industrialized a lot earlier.

There are several factors that do contribute to a dwindling population, but I think industrialization, with the center of production shifting away from the home to the factory is a big if not the biggest contributor.
 
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mythbuster1 said:
In fact, the whole Asian Carp problem in the Midwest was caused by them escaping containment during Hurricane Katrina; the carp had been imported for use as a biocontrol against algae blooms in sewage treatment plant effluents.
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I hear that they taste good.
 
Indeed, but they require so much labor to prepare that only about 1% of the market price goes to the fishermen.
 
When the end of the world comes, I’m going South to fish carp, hunt pig, and eat kudzu.
 
I don’t see where what you have said has any bearing on my post. Sounds like you have started another topic wherein you would like to put forth the idea that industrialized nations had no part in creating the ecological situation we’re faced with. That’s not even worth debating. That said, I will agree with you that hygienic innovations such as indoor plumbing have been some of the biggest contributors of modern longevity, but the linkage between that and my position is weak. It’s just way off.

All the best!
 
You can hunt pythons too.

The alligators will thank you if you do.

Alligators have been the apex predators in the Florida Everglades but these pythons are a threat. Unlike alligators, these giant snakes are a threat to everyone there, including the alligators.
 
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I do think this is a big part of the problem. Children are viewed as free labor or they are viewed as an expensive accessory that is not needed and therefore easily done without. Children should not be seen as either. Parenthood shouldn’t be done with the thinking, “What is in it for me?” and instead, “How can I give more.” God loans us children with the idea that we will return them to Him—with interest. We need to adjust our thinking and realize children are not a right to be sought after to as we choose, just as they are not so expensive that most can not afford to have them. We need more children being raised to serve God and our fellow man. We also need to accept that they may not come simply because we want them.
 
PickyPicky said:
But that is exactly the situation we are already in, with vast areas of forest being destroyed all over the world and biodiversity declining.
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What I meant was we are not going to reach 14 billion.
Why environmental destruction is happening is a reluctance to enforce existing laws and regulations. That has absolutely nothing to do with population size. Is a smaller population that’s more mindless and destructive better?
PickyPicky said:
People argue here that the planet can support more people: of course it can, for the time being. But at what cost to the rest of life?
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And it can support more people, at least 14 billion. But given that the population growth rate is declining and will hit zero by the end of the century, it won’t even be close to that.
Environmental awareness can be effective. Controlling CFCs was the most successful environmental collaboration between nations. It can be replicated. Also, consumers are changing habits and seeking changes. Developing countries are choosing greener technologies as they industrialize.
 
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I agree with your view of children as coming from God.

However try explaining that to people who do not have the same beliefs as you.

I have lived in Buddhist, Muslim and Christian countries and I can say with some degree of certainty that most people are “(insert name of religion) in name only”. The very business of earning a living and the concerns of everyday life often take a back seat to spiritual matters. Jesus and the parable of the seed sower comes to mind where He mentions that the concerns of everyday life can lead to spiritual numbness.
 
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