Need for Christian Public Library...not gov run public library

[Hoosier_Daddy]

The point is the language used. Denying that the rest of the community uses the term marriage when referring to same-sex marriage is like putting my fingers in my ears and singing loudly – and denying this fact to my children encourages them to do the same. Explain to children that the community has redefined marriage and why this is objectionable. But don’t prepare them to meet those living in same-sex marriages and immediately cry out, “That’s not marriage!” That’s fruitless, rude, and makes more enemies of Christianity.

Yes. And surprise (and gasp), they’re already there. I’m not sure how you think critical thinking is taught or learned but it isn’t through prohibition.

If you think I’m sort of anomaly, you don’t know librarians at all.

Your approach has brought us nothing but tragedy I. The arena of families and children. I think it is important to raise saints grounded in Catholic values. Not necessarily kids who are great at political correctness. I think it is confusing to kids to submit to the redefinition of evil and therefore profaning a sacrament. But if you think you can explain the nuances to children. Fine. Most adults are perverted by this type of thinking and movement. Just keep that bunk out of the reach of my kids.
Do you have any limits on what children should be exposed to?

 

[gracepoole]

Your approach has brought us nothing but tragedy I. The arena of families and children. I think it is important to raise saints grounded in Catholic values. Not necessarily kids who are great at political correctness. I think it is confusing to kids to submit to the redefinition of evil and therefore profaning a sacrament. But if you think you can explain the nuances to children. Fine. Most adults are perverted by this type of thinking and movement. Just keep that bunk out of the reach of my kids.
Do you have any limits on what children should be exposed to?

That’s quite a false dichotomy you’ve created: expose children to the fact that same-sex families exist and therefore raise them as heathens or pretend these families don’t exist and raise children to be saints. Teaching children the nuances of morality is a function of parenting them. It’s weird that you think this is about political correctness. Teaching children to show compassion toward others – including and perhaps especially sinners – is part of raising them with Christian values. Your approach positions children to see kids raised in same-sex households as freaks.

And yes, I do have limits. The don’t include the subject at hand so far.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I’m beginning to see the merits of the op’s idea.

 

[edwest2]

Still, librarians are also susceptible to what gets checked out and what their patrons ask them to acquire. I have been pleasantly surprised at the titles I could borrow from our local public library system. They want check-outs and they want to buy materials that people want to borrow. That is evidence that their selections have been good ones.

I wish that were true. From the American Library Association web site:

"Starting in 2015, the American Library Association will mark GLBT Book Month™, a nationwide celebration of the authors and writings that reflect the lives and experiences of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender community.

"Originally established in the early 1990s by The Publishing Triangle as National Lesbian and Gay Book Month, this occasion is an opportunity for book lovers and libraries with the very best in GLBT literature.

"GLBT Book Month™ is an initiative of the American Library Association, and is coordinated through its Office for Diversity, Literacy, and Outreach Services and the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgender Round Table.
Celebrate GLBT Book Month™ in your Community

“Celebrate GLBT Book Month this June with a new bookmark and poster, now available from ALA Graphics! Featuring vibrant art from This Day in June by Gayle E. Pitman and illustrated by Kristyna Litten, this new poster and bookmark commemorates June as GLBT Book Month. This Day in June is the winner of the 2015 Stonewall Book Award for Children’s and Young Adult Literature and a Top Ten Rainbow List Title. It invites readers to a pride celebration with text in rhyming couplets, energetic images, and a reading guide for parents and caregivers on how to talk to children about sexual orientation and gender identity in age-appropriate ways.”

Changes are occurring that everyone should be aware of.

Ed

 

[tifischer]

The point is the language used. Denying that the rest of the community uses the term marriage when referring to same-sex marriage is like putting my fingers in my ears and singing loudly – and denying this fact to my children encourages them to do the same. Explain to children that the community has redefined marriage and why this is objectionable. But don’t prepare them to meet those living in same-sex marriages and immediately cry out, “That’s not marriage!” That’s fruitless, rude, and makes more enemies of Christianity.

Now you are judging and jumping to conclusions. I was never taught about same sex marriage and I did not become a homophob or gay rights activist or cry out “That’s no marriage!” or be rude. My sister and I were taught that divorce is acceptable and guess what my marriage was annulled and she has been married twice and once to a man previously married. I would have preferred that my parents taught us what marriage is suppose to be not what it has become…that is for a later philosophical discussion of the culture. That is how I hope to teach my children. When they are older adolescence perhaps there will be more philosophical discussions. As far as I am concerned if my child says someone has two moms I will tell them that the child must be confused because you cannot have two moms…a mom is someone who gives birth a child. Although, some mom’s unfortunately give their children up for adoption and then there may be an adoptive mother (unless the child was forced to be give for adoption unjustly then the person is a foster parent).

Yes. And surprise (and gasp), they’re already there. I’m not sure how you think critical thinking is taught or learned but it isn’t through prohibition.

Now you are being melodramatic and I find your method quite rude…coming from someone worried about us being rude to same-sex marriage is sadly ironic. Judge not less ye be judged, right?

If you think I’m sort of anomaly, you don’t know librarians at all.

I actually do know a librarian who I talk to almost weekly and she seems to have a different opinion than you. Seems you are jumping to conclusions again.

 

[tifischer]

I wish that were true. From the American Library Association web site:

"Starting in 2015, the American Library Association will mark GLBT Book Month™, a nationwide celebration of the authors and writings that reflect the lives and experiences of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender community.

"Originally established in the early 1990s by The Publishing Triangle as National Lesbian and Gay Book Month, this occasion is an opportunity for book lovers and libraries with the very best in GLBT literature.

"GLBT Book Month™ is an initiative of the American Library Association, and is coordinated through its Office for Diversity, Literacy, and Outreach Services and the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgender Round Table.
Celebrate GLBT Book Month™ in your Community

“Celebrate GLBT Book Month this June with a new bookmark and poster, now available from ALA Graphics! Featuring vibrant art from This Day in June by Gayle E. Pitman and illustrated by Kristyna Litten, this new poster and bookmark commemorates June as GLBT Book Month. This Day in June is the winner of the 2015 Stonewall Book Award for Children’s and Young Adult Literature and a Top Ten Rainbow List Title. It invites readers to a pride celebration with text in rhyming couplets, energetic images, and a reading guide for parents and caregivers on how to talk to children about sexual orientation and gender identity in age-appropriate ways.”

Changes are occurring that everyone should be aware of.

Ed

Sadly, that creating an environment fostering for G&L and possibly may lead to imprinting in young children. What is odd to me is that polygamy is not considered as morally unethical as G&L yet less widely accepted. If children grew up celebrating polygamy then that would also foster an environment of polygamy and possibly imprint children with a desire for multiple spouses.

How has it come that our culture is so void of the scientific research showing that G&L is environmental? So void that in trying to help they are unintentionally using tactics that logically may only exasperate the problem.

God have mercy and protect the children and us. In Jesus name, amen.

 

[edwest2]

Sadly, that creating an environment fostering for G&L and possibly may lead to imprinting in young children. What is odd to me is that polygamy is not considered as morally unethical as G&L yet less widely accepted. If children grew up celebrating polygamy then that would also foster an environment of polygamy and possibly imprint children with a desire for multiple spouses.

How has it come that our culture is so void of the scientific research showing that G&L is environmental? So void that in trying to help they are unintentionally using tactics that logically may only exasperate the problem.

God have mercy and protect the children and us. In Jesus name, amen.

Good parenting is important but it is important to know what is true and not true. The media is showing Gay and Lesbian behavior as normative, with bisexual behavior being a recent addition. As far as the origin(s) of same-sex attraction, it is unclear if some biological predisposition is also involved. But that is another topic.

Ed

 

[gracepoole]

Now you are judging and jumping to conclusions. I was never taught about same sex marriage and I did not become a homophob or gay rights activist or cry out “That’s no marriage!” or be rude.

I actually never claimed that children not exposed to such literature would become homophobic or gay rights activists. But…

As far as I am concerned if my child says someone has two moms I will tell them that the child must be confused because you cannot have two moms

Be prepared for him to tell a child who’s living in a same-sex household that “that’s not marriage.” I assume you would want him to, as you seem to see this as testifying to the truth. No?

Now you are being melodramatic and I find your method quite rude…coming from someone worried about us being rude to same-sex marriage is sadly ironic.

Not at all. Just responding to HoosierDaddy’s hyperbole.

But you can feel free to respond to my point about critical thinking, too.

I actually do know a librarian who I talk to almost weekly and she seems to have a different opinion than you. Seems you are jumping to conclusions again.

Your one lone example aside, I’m not just referring to myself – I’m referring to listservs, conferences, and professional organizations involved children’s librarians who do not agree with removing controversial materials from library shelves.

 

[EasterJoy]

I wish that were true. From the American Library Association web site:

"Starting in 2015, the American Library Association will mark GLBT Book Month™, a nationwide celebration of the authors and writings that reflect the lives and experiences of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender community.

"Originally established in the early 1990s by The Publishing Triangle as National Lesbian and Gay Book Month, this occasion is an opportunity for book lovers and libraries with the very best in GLBT literature.

"GLBT Book Month™ is an initiative of the American Library Association, and is coordinated through its Office for Diversity, Literacy, and Outreach Services and the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgender Round Table.
Celebrate GLBT Book Month™ in your Community

“Celebrate GLBT Book Month this June with a new bookmark and poster, now available from ALA Graphics! Featuring vibrant art from This Day in June by Gayle E. Pitman and illustrated by Kristyna Litten, this new poster and bookmark commemorates June as GLBT Book Month. This Day in June is the winner of the 2015 Stonewall Book Award for Children’s and Young Adult Literature and a Top Ten Rainbow List Title. It invites readers to a pride celebration with text in rhyming couplets, energetic images, and a reading guide for parents and caregivers on how to talk to children about sexual orientation and gender identity in age-appropriate ways.”

Changes are occurring that everyone should be aware of.

Ed

GLBT groups are insisting on including materials they want and advertising the availability of these materials, not insisting that materials they *do not want *are removed.

The public library is “the world.” There is no getting around that, and I never said there was. What I said was that public libraries can and will use public funds to purchase Christian literature and library materials, if patrons ask for it. Unlike public schools, they are not forbidden from making investments that could show some religion or philosophical view or other in a favorable light.

Public libraries stock both the Bible and Mein Kampf. They stock the whole spectrum of thought and expression. It is what they do. Those who gather up groups of people to advocate for inclusion of certain materials are going to get results that those who sit on the sidelines and quietly wish for what they’d like to have available are not going to get.

Having said that, the GLBT line of thought is seen as a philosophy, not a religion. The courts are starting to recognize how blurry that line is, but right now philosophies do get different treatment than organized religions.

 

[gracepoole]

What I said was that public libraries can and will use public funds to purchase Christian literature and library materials, if patrons ask for it. Unlike public schools, they are not forbidden from making investments that could show some religion or philosophical view or other in a favorable light.

This is very true. In both the library at which I worked and the library my family now frequents, ANY book asked by a patron to be purchased is purchased, so long as it’s available new and doesn’t cost an arm and a leg. I’ve stocked up the children’s section on books about saints, the Mass, and things like Angel in the Waters, which promotes a pro-life message. If only there were more children’s books that support a Catholic worldview. To me that’s still a major problem.

 

[tifischer]

That’s quite a false dichotomy you’ve created: expose children to the fact that same-sex families exist and therefore raise them as heathens or pretend these families don’t exist and raise children to be saints. Teaching children the nuances of morality is a function of parenting them. It’s weird that you think this is about political correctness. Teaching children to show compassion toward others – including and perhaps especially sinners – is part of raising them with Christian values. Your approach positions children to see kids raised in same-sex households as freaks.

And yes, I do have limits. The don’t include the subject at hand so far.

Again you are using extremism “freaks or heathens” to what I am saying and you are jumping to conclusions with false assumptions. I was not taught taught about G&L unions or marriages and I don’t seem them as “freaks” or “heathens” as you suggest…seems you are wrong. Were you taught by your parents between the ages of 5yrs old to 12 yrs about G&L marriages or unions or relationships and come out thinking they are “freaks” or “heathens”.

Your tactic is to argue extreme falsehood as a result of what I argue that is judgmental and false…the tactic is deceiving and is called the “straw man arguments” and used to deceive others falsely in this case by appealing to the emotion against cruelty (as though I am cruel or would teach my children to be cruel). My argument is based on science and the teachings of the Church, all documented sources…facts of truth. Your argument is just conjecture…perhaps that’s how people get pulled away from the truth in the first place is listening to conjecture and not documented facts.

I have had friends who are homosexual or bi since high school, I am not cruel toward people regardless their sins as I would hope they would not judge me for my sins but help me through them. I have been very loving towards my lesbian and bi friends as any friend would be when their friend is going through a crisis. Mostly they likewise have opened up to me and I do my best to encourage a Christian way and they have never criticized me as being cruel…hopefully because I am sympathetic and loving of them and not judgmental…not because they think I am such a awful sinner that I won’t judge. Lord God have mercy on my soul. Purple hair, piercings, and holy pants…Lord knows I looked like a heathen…oh wait, I was a heathen…although I appreciated Christian values and found their faith system somewhat hopeful and endearing.

 

[tifischer]

I’m beginning to see the merits of the op’s idea.

Are you referring to gracepoole straw man arguments?

 

[gracepoole]

Again you are using extremism “freaks or heathens” to what I am saying

I wasn’t responding to your post.

 

[tifischer]

I wasn’t responding to your post.

You are still arguing against my position (who in no way indicated that they were to see or make G&L seen as freaks or heathens) with a straw man argument…so regardless. And your post is in reference to my thread.

 

[EasterJoy]

You are still arguing against my position (who in no way indicated that they were to see or make G&L seen as freaks or heathens) with a straw man argument…so regardless. And your post is in reference to my thread.

I totally understand your frustration that the public information system is being heavily influenced by the current movement to change public attitudes so that immorality is not only tolerated but positively celebrated.

It helps a great deal to read the writings of the early saints who lived during the first persecutions, for they were also surrounded by a society that celebrated and defended immorality. We are sometimes verbally abused for our faith and made out to be hateful people, but they suffered far greater abuse and even physical danger for holding the faith. These saints counsel us not only to hold on to the faith and resist being tainted by the World, the Flesh, and the Devil, but also to avoid the trap of enmity towards our enemies and those who oppose us both inside and outside the Church. We have to actually love our enemies, show them patience and kindness, and advocate as strongly to God for their reclamation as we do for our own.

The trap the Devil will* always* set for the faithful is the trap of the elder son in the story of the prodigal and the trap of the Pharisee, which is to look at those who have transgressed with contempt and to look at ourselves and our service to God in a favorable light by comparison, neglecting to lament our own condition as we ought to do.

As I like to say, there is always a ditch on both sides of the narrow way. We must not fixate so much on the ditch on one side that we neglect to see ourselves veering into the opposite ditch. That is why the narrow way is difficult to find: no one ever stayed on it by pulling the steering wheel as hard as possible in one direction.

 

[gracepoole]

You are still arguing against my position (who in no way indicated that they were to see or make G&L seen as freaks or heathens)

That may be but I was pointing out a false dichotomy in someone else’s post, not yours, when I used the term “heathens.” It only makes sense in that context and it doesn’t make sense in any other.

And your post is in reference to my thread.

Threads don’t really work that way on CAF. You start a thread and people take it in all sorts of directions. I’ve started many threads over the years and I don’t take all responses as responses to my original post. That’s saved me a whole lot of frustration.

Ultimately, whether you see value in children being exposed to controversial books or not, most public libraries aren’t going to remove materials because of parent complaints. The only way to “win” in the public library setting is to counter materials you find offensive by requesting that others be purchased and added to collections that speak to Catholic and/or Christian values. This is totally possible.

Or, as I noted earlier, go with your original idea and create a Christian library. The only point I noted about this is that it would be a mistake to suggest that those who permit their children to frequent public libraries are somehow making a less than moral choice in doing so.

 

[edwest2]

I totally understand your frustration that the public information system is being heavily influenced by the current movement to change public attitudes so that immorality is not only tolerated but positively celebrated.

It helps a great deal to read the writings of the early saints who lived during the first persecutions, for they were also surrounded by a society that celebrated and defended immorality. We are sometimes verbally abused for our faith and made out to be hateful people, but they suffered far greater abuse and even physical danger for holding the faith. These saints counsel us not only to hold on to the faith and resist being tainted by the World, the Flesh, and the Devil, but also to avoid the trap of enmity towards our enemies and those who oppose us both inside and outside the Church. We have to actually love our enemies, show them patience and kindness, and advocate as strongly to God for their reclamation as we do for our own.

The trap the Devil will* always* set for the faithful is the trap of the elder son in the story of the prodigal and the trap of the Pharisee, which is to look at those who have transgressed with contempt and to look at ourselves and our service to God in a favorable light by comparison, neglecting to lament our own condition as we ought to do.

As I like to say, there is always a ditch on both sides of the narrow way. We must not fixate so much on the ditch on one side that we neglect to see ourselves veering into the opposite ditch. That is why the narrow way is difficult to find: no one ever stayed on it by pulling the steering wheel as hard as possible in one direction.

The “public information system” includes all media, including all movies and TV. Corruption is occurring at all levels and it is organized.

Providing Catholic Answers to all is what we should be doing here.

Ed

 

[SnoopSword]

Noted and filed.

Social tolerance is a Jewish/Masonic value not a Catholic one… theres a video explaining this on Youtube… the vortext I think explains it. Alot of what we know as our ‘first instincts’ come directly out of the Masonic Lodge and ‘Jewish thought’ and have absolutely nothing to do with Christian teachings or the Catholic Church… heck… even the early protestant churches dont hold these values.

 

[ChadS]

Not to mention all you’re doing in creating extra work for the librarians. (Hint: They really don’t appreciate people doing this.)

As a librarian I agree! The library has a responsibility to provide and make freely available reading materials to all different communities, people, and interest groups. This will obviously include materials that you disagree with or find inappropriate for your child.

The good news is that as a parent you have the right to stop your child from reading the book or checking it out. I don’t think that right extends to preventing other people from checking it out or reading it, and that means discreetly hiding it or reshelving it elsewhere. If you find something objectionable for your child to read confront it head on and explain why you find it objectionable. Don’t send them scurrying down another aisle while you move something from the 611s to the 550s.

ChadS

 

[edwest2]

I don’t think libraries are an appropriate place to celebrate and promote a political ideology.

When the ALA decides, as opposed to the public, to support an ideology or social engineering project, it is going beyond its bounds as a place where anyone can read books. It becomes a willing accomplice/enabler to a propaganda project.

Ed