Need refutations for attacks on the Deity of Christ

[CutlerB]

That means you won the argument and they can’t refute you

Problem is it didn’t work out the way I wanted it to! Afterall it’s about more than winning the argument. It’s about getting them to see and they just won’t (want?).

St. Athanasius says: “For He was made man that we might be made God”. How than can we partake of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) if God hasn’t been made man? What use would it have been if a mere man had died on the cross? How can a mere man do miracles by himself. “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up (John 2:13-25)”. How can mere man resurrect himself?

Oh, I just found what I NEVER understood: Partaking in the divine nature.

I agree, but JWs create a huge jungle of verses around such things as Jesus raising Himself, working miracles, etc.

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

Problem is it didn’t work out the way I wanted it to! Afterall it’s about more than winning the argument. It’s about getting them to see and they just won’t (want?).

Perhaps apostasy from the arian heresy will result in them being disowned by their parents? Just use arguments against them, sow seeds.

 

[CutlerB]

Perhaps apostasy from the arian heresy will result in them being disowned by their parents? Just use arguments against them, sow seeds.

Yes, unfortunately it will, unless you get the parents to see too. But that’s certainly not in my capability. Sowing seeds, that’s it, just as you said.

 

[Crux_Sacra]

The “bible” the Jehovah’s Witnesses use has been heavily edited, changed to reflect their particular misinterpretation of Scripture. So if you want to argue Scripture with them, you will have to find verses which they have not gotten around to corrupting yet.

Going by the page on John Salza’s website ScriptureCatholic.com which deals specifically with the divinity of Christ, and finding verses from the NWT bible on the Watch Tower Society’s website which match the wording from a regular Bible pretty closely, one can still find a few verses to prove that Jesus is God from the NWT itself. Even a bible which has been heavily edited like the NWT to disguise the truth that Jesus is God still proclaims it when you look in the right places.

For instance, Matthew 12:8, Mark 2:28, and Luke 6:5, where Jesus declares that he is Lord of the Sabbath. Compare this to Exodus 20:10, where in the Decalogue the seventh day is called the “sabbath of the Lord your God.” Jesus is here calling himself God.

In Luke 8:39, Jesus tells the man to declare how much God has done for him, and he declares what Jesus has done for him. Clearly, Scripture is referring to Jesus as God.

In John 5:18, the Jews are said to have tried to kill him because he called God his Father, which made him equal to God. Only God is equal to God.

In Revelation 8:8, Jesus refers to himself as the Lord God, the Alpha and the Omega. And there can be no arguing with the identification because a few verses later, in 8:17-18, Jesus declares he is the “first and the last” and that he was once dead but now lives forever. The same voice which call himself the alpha and the omega declares that he was dead and lives forever. The only person of the Blessed Trinity to have died is Jesus.

Revelation 2:8 further strengthens the identification of Jesus as God.

In John 20:28, Thomas calls Jesus “my Lord and my God.” And Jesus asks, “Because you have seen me you have believed?” ( second quote taken from the NWT) Clearly, Thomas has just addressed Jesus as God. It is not merely an exclamation.

In Psalm 71:5, God is called our hope, and in 1 Timothy 1:1, so is Jesus.

Isaiah 45:23-24 makes it clear that every knee shall bow and every tongue confess God, and Phillipians 2:10-11 says the same of Jesus.

If you go to Mr. Salza’s website, he lists many more verses, but the WTS has changed wording for many of them for the NWT in order to deny that Jesus is God. I only picked a few whose wording in the NWT closely matched real translations so you can take them to your friend and argue with his own bible that Jesus is God.

†God Bless!

 

[CutlerB]

The “bible” the Jehovah’s Witnesses use has been heavily edited, changed to reflect their particular misinterpretation of Scripture. So if you want to argue Scripture with them, you will have to find verses which they have not gotten around to corrupting yet.

Going by the page on John Salza’s website ScriptureCatholic.com which deals specifically with the divinity of Christ, and finding verses from the NWT bible on the Watch Tower Society’s website which match the wording from a regular Bible pretty closely, one can still find a few verses to prove that Jesus is God from the NWT itself. Even a bible which has been heavily edited like the NWT to disguise the truth that Jesus is God still proclaims it when you look in the right places.

For instance, Matthew 12:8, Mark 2:28, and Luke 6:5, where Jesus declares that he is Lord of the Sabbath. Compare this to Exodus 20:10, where in the Decalogue the seventh day is called the “sabbath of the Lord your God.” Jesus is here calling himself God.

In Luke 8:39, Jesus tells the man to declare how much God has done for him, and he declares what Jesus has done for him. Clearly, Scripture is referring to Jesus as God.

In John 5:18, the Jews are said to have tried to kill him because he called God his Father, which made him equal to God. Only God is equal to God.

In Revelation 8:8, Jesus refers to himself as the Lord God, the Alpha and the Omega. And there can be no arguing with the identification because a few verses later, in 8:17-18, Jesus declares he is the “first and the last” and that he was once dead but now lives forever. The same voice which call himself the alpha and the omega declares that he was dead and lives forever. The only person of the Blessed Trinity to have died is Jesus.

Revelation 2:8 further strengthens the identification of Jesus as God.

In John 20:28, Thomas calls Jesus “my Lord and my God.” And Jesus asks, “Because you have seen me you have believed?” ( second quote taken from the NWT) Clearly, Thomas has just addressed Jesus as God. It is not merely an exclamation.

In Psalm 71:5, God is called our hope, and in 1 Timothy 1:1, so is Jesus.

Isaiah 45:23-24 makes it clear that every knee shall bow and every tongue confess God, and Phillipians 2:10-11 says the same of Jesus.

If you go to Mr. Salza’s website, he lists many more verses, but the WTS has changed wording for many of them for the NWT in order to deny that Jesus is God. I only picked a few whose wording in the NWT closely matched real translations so you can take them to your friend and argue with his own bible that Jesus is God.

†God Bless!

Thank you! A lot of passages in their version have inserted the name Jehovah, obscuring the deity of Christ. Almost all quotes from the OT that sid “The Lord” now say “Jehovah” making everything apply to the Father in their view. That’s still something I’m struggling with.

 

[jcrichton]

Dear community,

Here I go again about the Jehovah’s Witnesses. I have their book “Reasoning from the Scriptures” in German… I know this is a lot of text, but maybe the points can be grouped. I hope somebody can show either their error or explain the Trinitarian position. Thank you in advance.

…the problem is “understanding…”

…they lack it!

Let’s take one issue at a time…

Before starting, know that Jesus is the Source of God’s Revelation… this Source is brought to us through the Holy Spirit (St. John 14, 15, 16); hence, it is the Holy Spirit who Reveals everything of God in both the Old and New Testaments… know, also, that no manipulation that man gives the Word of God (specially the Jehovah Witnesses) can make the Truth anything less than the Truth and empty lies (unTruth) be anything more than manipulation of words (not the Word) {…hey, am I sounding a little like that mumbo jumbo in those booklets?..}

Quote:
Texts, in which a Title of Jehovah is said be or is really applied to Jesus Christ

Alpha and Omega: Who does the title really belong to? (1) According to Revelation 1:8 to God Almighty. (2) Many translators of Revelation to Hebrew recognised that the One described in verse 8 was Jehovah and thus inserted the personal name of God. (3) Revelation 21:6, 7 shows that Christians, who prove to be victorious in faith, are „sons“ of Him, who is referred to as the Alpha und Omega. That is nowhere said about the relationship of spirit-born Christians and Jesus Christ. Jesus always called them his “brothers” (Heb. 2:11; Mat. 12:50; 25:40). These „brothers“ of Jesus are called „sons of God“ (Gal. 3:26; 4:6). …] (5) In Revelation 22:13 it is said about the Alpha and Omega it is “the First and the Last”, and this expression is applied to Jesus Christ in Rev 1:17, 18. But the expression “Apostle” is also applied to Jesus Christ as well as some of his disciples. Is it therefore really proof that it is the same person being talked about or that these persons are equal?(Heb. 3:1). All of this shows that the Title of “Alpha and Omega” refers to the Father and not to the Son.

8 ‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God, who is, who was, and who is to come, the Almighty. (Apocalypse 1:8)

Does this verse excludes Jesus as the Alpha and the Omega? …as the Lord? …as the Lord God? …as the Almighty?

No!

Who is this God that was, is and is to come… is it the Father or is it the Son?

There’s only one particular passage in Scriptures that speaks of the Father, known in the Old Testament as Yahweh Sabaoth, as coming (being revealed to His children):

'Look, I shall send my messenger to clear a way before me. And suddenly the Lord whom you seek will come to his Temple; yes, the angel of the covenant, for whom you long, is on his way, says Yahweh Sabaoth. (Malachi 3:1)

…but even this passage has a hidden meaning that is found only in the Revelations of the New Testament:

1… 2 It is written in the prophet Isaiah: Look, I am going to send my messenger in front of you to prepare your way before you. 3 A voice of one that cries in the desert: Prepare a way for the Lord, make his paths straight. (St. Mark 1:1-3–compare with Lk 4:14-21)

…we know from Scriptures that Yahweh was to Come to Israel…we know, also from Scriptures that it never happened nor will happen since Temple was razed in 70 AD… did God lie?

Check Malichi again… Yahweh Himself is the Angel of the Covenant–Jesus terminated the Old Covenant and Established a New Covenant which includes both Israel and the Gentiles… in deed God did not lie (Lk 4:14-21)!

…here’s the mismash of those who refuse to accept Christ’s Divinity:

But the expression “Apostle” is also applied to Jesus Christ as well as some of his disciples.

Wow… great argument! Yet, Christ Himself stated that He was sent by the Father–no mystery there! …but Jehovah Witnesses cannot even begin to assimilate more pertinent Scriptures:

Alpha and Omega, first and last letters of the Greek alphabet, is a long way of saying: “Eternal.” Jesus, the Eternal, is the First and the Last… how difficult is that to understand? …they are mystified with still other passages:

The Lord will give you a sign in any case: It is this: the young woman is with child and will give birth to a son whom she will call Immanuel. (Isaiah 7:14)

23 Look! the virgin is with child and will give birth to a son whom they will call Immanuel, a name which means ‘God-is-with-us’. (St. Matthew 1:23–compare with Malachi 3:1)

…and:

5 For a son has been born for us, a son has been given to us, and dominion has been laid on his shoulders; and this is the name he has been given, ‘Wonder-Counsellor, Mighty-God, Eternal-Father, Prince-of-Peace’ (Isaiah 9:5)

28 Thomas replied, ‘My Lord and my God!’ (St. John 20:28)

1 In the beginning was the Word: the Word was with God and the Word was God. (St. John 20:28)

41 Now it happened that as soon as Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the child leapt in her womb and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 She gave a loud cry and said, 'Of all women you are the most blessed, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. 43 Why should I be honoured with a visit from the mother of my Lord? 44 Look, the moment your greeting reached my ears, the child in my womb leapt for joy. (St. Luke 1:41-44)

21 The scribes and the Pharisees began to think this over. ‘Who is this man, talking blasphemy? Who but God alone can forgive sins?’ 22 But Jesus, aware of their thoughts, made them this reply, 'What are these thoughts you have in your hearts? (Luke 5:21-22)

43 He said to them, 'Then how is it that David, moved by the Spirit, calls him Lord, where he says: 44 The Lord declared to my Lord, take your seat at my right hand, till I have made your enemies your footstool? 45 ‘If David calls him Lord, how then can he be his son?’ (St. Matthew 22:43-45)

3 He is the reflection of God’s glory and bears the impress of God’s own being, sustaining all things by his powerful command… he has taken his seat at the right hand of the divine Majesty on high… 5 To which of the angels, then, has God ever said: You are my Son, today I have fathered you… 6 Again, when he brings the First-born into the world, he says: Let all the angels of God pay him homage… 8 but to the Son he says: Your throne, God, is for ever and ever… This is why God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness… (Hebrews 1:3-9)

Here’s another one of their problematic exegesis: they exclude everything that does not support their warped theology:

…Alpha and Omega did not just happened… it is part of this whole disclosure:

QUOTE]A revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him so that he could tell his servants what is now to take place very soon; he sent his angel to make it known to his servant John, (Apocalyse 1:1)
God acknowledges that Christ has servants and angels–is that not contrary to “place none above God?”

7 Look, he is coming on the clouds; everyone will see him, even those who pierced him, and all the races of the earth will mourn over him. Indeed this shall be so. Amen. 8 ‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God, who is, who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.

…this brings us back to the God who is, was, and is to come… who is the Church awaiting on the Parousia? Can they honestly claim that Scriptures speak of an instance where the Father is Coming?

13…one like a Son of man… his voice like the sound of the ocean… 16 In his right hand he was holding seven stars, out of his mouth came a sharp sword, double-edged… 17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead, but he laid his right hand on me and said, 'Do not be afraid; it is I, the First and the Last; I am the Living One, 18 I was dead and look – I am alive for ever and ever…

…so when did the Father die?

…who is the First and the Last?

…the Living One (Eternal)?

Christ is God, the Immanuel, the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End, the Eternal, the One that Was, Is, and Is to Come (I AM)!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[CutlerB]

I completely agree. The problem is getting them to see that the titles can only be applied to God, as they say “Oh, well, Apostle is a title for multiple people, so what?”

About this part:

5 For a son has been born for us, a son has been given to us, and dominion has been laid on his shoulders; and this is the name he has been given, ‘Wonder-Counsellor, Mighty-God, Eternal-Father, Prince-of-Peace’ (Isaiah 9:5)

They say: “See! Jesus isn’t God, because he is called ‘Mighty God’ and not Almighty!” I never get to clear this up, as they just won’t understand.

Additionaly, I’m particularly interested in this part:

Passages from the Hebrew Scriptures that refer undoubtably to Jehovah, but are applied by the inspired writers to Jesus Christ

Why are the words from Isaiah 40:3 quoted in John 1:23 and applied to the work of John the Baptist in preparing the way for Jesus Christ, when in Isaiah 40:3 the way is explicitly to be prepared for Jehovah? Because Jesus represented his Father. he came in the name of his Father and had the assurance that his Father would always be with him, because he did what was pleasing to the Father. (Jn 5:43; 8:29)

Why are the words from Psalm 102:25-27 applied to the Son in Hebrews 1:10-12, when the psalmist obviously addressed them to God? Because it was no one else than the Son, through whom God accomplished the works of creation. (see Colossians 1:15, 16; Proverbs 8:22, 27-30) 2 Samuel 7:14 is quoted twice in Hebrews 1:5b and applied to the Sohn of God. This text was fulfilled first in Solomon, but later in Jesus Christ, but that doesn’t mean that Jesus and Solomon were one and the same person. Jesus is “greater than Solomon” and conducted a work, that was foreshaddowed by Solomon’s. (Lk 11:31)

They say it is Jesus representing his Father, so there is no problem with the verse.

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

Thank you! A lot of passages in their version have inserted the name Jehovah, obscuring the deity of Christ. Almost all quotes from the OT that sid “The Lord” now say “Jehovah” making everything apply to the Father in their view. That’s still something I’m struggling with.

How can they even do that? Nowhere in any Greek manuscript does it say “Jehovah”. Even in the Septuagint it is nowhere to be found.

Btw: do they worship Christ like the Arians did?

 

[CutlerB]

How can they even do that? Nowhere in any Greek manuscript does it say “Jehovah”. Even in the Septuagint it is nowhere to be found.

Btw: do they worship Christ like the Arians did?

They say, and cite, this: “The early Christians removed it from the manuscripts. Matthew’s Gospel for example was written in Hebrew, quoting from the Hebrew Scriptures.” (They call the OT Hebrew Scriptures as they say “Testament” is wrong.)

The Watchtower continues to say that manuscripts of the Septuagint use the Tetragrammaton. They add “Jehovah” in almost all quotes in the NT from the OT.

No, they don’t worship Christ. (They translate “worship” as “do obeisance to”)

Here are some quotes from the New World Translation.

Luke 4:17-19 "So the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed him, and he opened the scroll and found the place where it was written: 18 “Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor, he sent me forth to preach a release to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away with a release, 19 to preach Jehovah’s acceptable year.”

Luke 4:12-13 “In answer Jesus said to him: “It is said, ‘You must not put Jehovah your God to the test.’” 13 So the Devil, having concluded all the temptation, retired from him until another convenient time.”

Matthew 2:1-2 “After Jesus had been born in Beth´le·hem of Ju·de´a in the days of Herod the king, look! astrologers from eastern parts came to Jerusalem, 2 saying: ‘Where is the one born king of the Jews? For we saw his star [when we were] in the east, and we have come to do him obeisance.’”

John 1:23 “He said: “I am a voice of someone crying out in the wilderness, ‘MAKE the way of Jehovah straight,’ just as Isaiah the prophet said.””

These are some examples, all together they add “Jehovah” 237 times. Here’s a list of some other occurrences, but there are SO much more.

Matthew 22:44; 23:39; 27:10
Mark 5:19; 12:29; 12:30; 12:36; 13:20
Luke 1:25; 1:28; 1:32; 1:58; 1:68; 2:15; 20:42
Acts 2:34; 2:39; 2:47; 3:22; 7:33; 7:49; 12:11; 12:17; 13:47
Romans 4:8; 9:28; 9:29; 12:19; 14:11;
1 Corinthians 1:31; 3:20; 4:4; 4:19; 7:17; 14:21; 16:7
2 Corinthians 6:17; 6:18; 10:18
Colossians 3:16
1 Thessalonians 4:6
2 Timothy 1:18; 2:19 (twice); 4:14
Hebrews 7:21; 8:2; 8:8; 8:9; 8:10; 10:16; 10:30; 12:6; 13:6
James 4:15; 5:15
2 Peter 2:9; 3:9
Jude 5, 9, 14
Revelation 1:8; 4:11; 18:8; 19:6; 21:22; 22:5; 22:6

In “Reasoning from the Scriptures” they state: “Jesus Christ emphasised the name of his Father, which indicates he used the name often (Mt 6:9; Jn 17:6, 26). Jerome from the 4th century CE said that the Apostle Matthew wrote his Gospel in Hebrew first, and in this Gospel we find many quotations from the Hebrew Scriptures that include the divine name.”

It continues to say: "Other writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures quoted from the Septuagint (280 BCE) and in old copies of the Septuagint the divine name occurs in Hebrew letters, as preserved fragments show.

“Professor George Howard of the University of Georgia wrote: „As the Tetragrammaton was still written in the copies of the Greek Bible, that made up the Scriptures of the ancient church, it is reasonable to suppose that the NT authors retained the Tetragrammaton in the biblical text, when they quotes from these writings.” (Journal of Biblical Literature, March 1977, p. 77).

This should suffice for the moment.

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

So they added the name to the NT?

[BIBLEDRB]Rev 22:18[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[CutlerB]

So they added the name to the NT?

[BIBLEDRB]Rev 22:19[/BIBLEDRB]

They say they “restored” the name because the early Christians “took it away”.

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

They say they “restored” the name because the early Christians “took it away”.

They have no proof. And it was Rev 22:18 btw

 

[CutlerB]

They have no proof. And it was Rev 22:18 btw

Of course not. Yet they say “Well if they quote from the OT (I’ll just call it that.), it says the name there!”

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

Of course not. Yet they say “Well if they quote from the OT (I’ll just call it that.), it says the name there!”

The Jews still say Adonai when they read the name, which is Kyrios in Greek.

 

[jcrichton]

I completely agree. The problem is getting them to see that the titles can only be applied to God, as they say “Oh, well, Apostle is a title for multiple people, so what?”

About this part:

They say: “See! Jesus isn’t God, because he is called ‘Mighty God’ and not Almighty!” I never get to clear this up, as they just won’t understand.

Additionaly, I’m particularly interested in this part:

They say it is Jesus representing his Father, so there is no problem with the verse.

…so you would take the word of a man over that of God?

God Calls Jesus God (Hebrews 1); God Commands His servants to acknowledge Jesus as God (Hebrews 1); God tells the world that Jesus is His Son and that we must Listen to Him (St. Matthew 17:5); Jesus Reveals to His Disciples that He and the Father are One (St. John 10:30) and that He is in the Father and that the Father is in Him (St. John 14:10) and that everything that the Father Has Belongs to Him (St. John 16:15)… so how is Jesus one of God’s representatives?

…you and I can be representatives of God, as are the angels–but no angel can claim to be God’s Begotten and, in deed, no angel/man can claim equal Divinity with the Father…

…as for Christ not being the Almighty God but instead a Mighty God… how confucius of them! No one can serve more than One God nor more than one Lord: the One True God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit! …in their diminished capacity, the only way they can understand God is through their pseudo theology which claims to be alligned with the One True God while denying the One True God!

…just check with St. Thomas… he surrendered to Jesus and exclaimed “My Lord and my God!” (Compare this Revelation to the various given, as on my previous post where men thought that none could forgive sin but God and Jesus, knowing their thoughts, made it more plainly understood that He was Yahweh; compare too the various encounters with demons that recognized Jesus’ Authority and Power; compare also the various Revelations made by the Apostles in the Sacred Writings that demonstrate that Jesus is God–not a god nor an angel.)

Sadly, if your agenda is to convict them of the Truth you have already failed for it is only through the Power of the Holy Spirit that we can begin to understand the Mysteries of God and the Jehovah Witnesses reject the only means to their Salvation (the sin that is not forgiven: Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit); they are quite laboriously expanding the wide path that leads to damnation!:

20 But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and have all received knowledge. 21 I have written to you not because you are ignorant of the truth, but because you are well aware of it, and because no lie can come from the truth. 22 Who is the liar, if not one who claims that Jesus is not the Christ? This is the Antichrist, who denies both the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son cannot have the Father either; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father too. (1 St. John 2:20-23–Compare with 1 Corinthians 12:3 and Apocalypse 5:13; 7:10; 22:1; 22:3)

Either they have it right and God has it wrong or they are setting themselves up for quite a rude awakening!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

They say, and cite, this: “The early Christians removed it from the manuscripts. Matthew’s Gospel for example was written in Hebrew, quoting from the Hebrew Scriptures.” (They call the OT Hebrew Scriptures as they say “Testament” is wrong.)

The Watchtower continues to say that manuscripts of the Septuagint use the Tetragrammaton. They add “Jehovah” in almost all quotes in the NT from the OT.

No, they don’t worship Christ. (They translate “worship” as “do obeisance to”)

Here are some quotes from the New World Translation.

Luke 4:17-19 "So the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed him, and he opened the scroll and found the place where it was written: 18 “Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor, he sent me forth to preach a release to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away with a release, 19 to preach Jehovah’s acceptable year.”

Luke 4:12-13 “In answer Jesus said to him: “It is said, ‘You must not put Jehovah your God to the test.’” 13 So the Devil, having concluded all the temptation, retired from him until another convenient time.”

Matthew 2:1-2 “After Jesus had been born in Beth´le·hem of Ju·de´a in the days of Herod the king, look! astrologers from eastern parts came to Jerusalem, 2 saying: ‘Where is the one born king of the Jews? For we saw his star [when we were] in the east, and we have come to do him obeisance.’”

John 1:23 “He said: “I am a voice of someone crying out in the wilderness, ‘MAKE the way of Jehovah straight,’ just as Isaiah the prophet said.””

These are some examples, all together they add “Jehovah” 237 times. Here’s a list of some other occurrences, but there are SO much more.

Matthew 22:44; 23:39; 27:10
Mark 5:19; 12:29; 12:30; 12:36; 13:20
Luke 1:25; 1:28; 1:32; 1:58; 1:68; 2:15; 20:42
Acts 2:34; 2:39; 2:47; 3:22; 7:33; 7:49; 12:11; 12:17; 13:47
Romans 4:8; 9:28; 9:29; 12:19; 14:11;
1 Corinthians 1:31; 3:20; 4:4; 4:19; 7:17; 14:21; 16:7
2 Corinthians 6:17; 6:18; 10:18
Colossians 3:16
1 Thessalonians 4:6
2 Timothy 1:18; 2:19 (twice); 4:14
Hebrews 7:21; 8:2; 8:8; 8:9; 8:10; 10:16; 10:30; 12:6; 13:6
James 4:15; 5:15
2 Peter 2:9; 3:9
Jude 5, 9, 14
Revelation 1:8; 4:11; 18:8; 19:6; 21:22; 22:5; 22:6

In “Reasoning from the Scriptures” they state: “Jesus Christ emphasised the name of his Father, which indicates he used the name often (Mt 6:9; Jn 17:6, 26). Jerome from the 4th century CE said that the Apostle Matthew wrote his Gospel in Hebrew first, and in this Gospel we find many quotations from the Hebrew Scriptures that include the divine name.”

It continues to say: "Other writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures quoted from the Septuagint (280 BCE) and in old copies of the Septuagint the divine name occurs in Hebrew letters, as preserved fragments show.

“Professor George Howard of the University of Georgia wrote: „As the Tetragrammaton was still written in the copies of the Greek Bible, that made up the Scriptures of the ancient church, it is reasonable to suppose that the NT authors retained the Tetragrammaton in the biblical text, when they quotes from these writings.” (Journal of Biblical Literature, March 1977, p. 77).

This should suffice for the moment.

…are you sure that you are not a mole?

…it seems that you put a great effort to know what they say… did you know that they have changed their theology several times over the last few decades?

…are you aware that Jehovah never existed in Scriptures and that it is a derivative of Yahweh and Adonai? (meet-intl-ministries.org/Jehovah.htm)

…and there’s only One Name given by which all shall be Saved: Jesus!

…as hard as they might deny Him, Jesus is the One!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

They say they “restored” the name because the early Christians “took it away”.

…which means that they have the original manuscripts of the Sacred Writings, correct?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Of course not. Yet they say “Well if they quote from the OT (I’ll just call it that.), it says the name there!”

It does not!

YHWH does not mean Jehovah!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[CutlerB]

…so you would take the word of a man over that of God?

God Calls Jesus God (Hebrews 1); God Commands His servants to acknowledge Jesus as God (Hebrews 1); God tells the world that Jesus is His Son and that we must Listen to Him (St. Matthew 17:5); Jesus Reveals to His Disciples that He and the Father are One (St. John 10:30) and that He is in the Father and that the Father is in Him (St. John 14:10) and that everything that the Father Has Belongs to Him (St. John 16:15)… so how is Jesus one of God’s representatives?.

…as for Christ not being the Almighty God but instead a Mighty God… how confucius of them! No one can serve more than One God nor more than one Lord: the One True God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit! …in their diminished capacity, the only way they can understand God is through their pseudo theology which claims to be alligned with the One True God while denying the One True God!

Sadly, if your agenda is to convict them of the Truth you have already failed for it is only through the Power of the Holy Spirit that we can begin to understand the Mysteries of God and the Jehovah Witnesses reject the only means to their Salvation (the sin that is not forgiven: Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit); they are quite laboriously expanding the wide path that leads to damnation!:

Either they have it right and God has it wrong or they are setting themselves up for quite a rude awakening!

The problem showing them Hebrews 1 is, that they mistranslated verse 8: From “O God” to “God is your throne”, changing also Psalm 45:6 and backing that up with quotes from scholars.

As for Jn 10:30, they go and say “well Jesus said we should be one just like them. That doesn’t mean of one nature, does it? It means purpose!”

I Don’t think they are lost. JWs are dangerously mislead, but can certainly see the light, if it shines at them brightly enough.

…are you sure that you are not a mole?

…it seems that you put a great effort to know what they say… did you know that they have changed their theology several times over the last few decades?

…are you aware that Jehovah never existed in Scriptures and that it is a derivative of Yahweh and Adonai? (meet-intl-ministries.org/Jehovah.htm)

…and there’s only One Name given by which all shall be Saved: Jesus!

…as hard as they might deny Him, Jesus is the One!

No, I’m not a mole the reason I look into their stuff is I have a good friend of mine, who is a JW and is constantly attacking the Church. I want to help him see where they are wrong, plant the seeds for the Holy Spirit to grow, if you wish.

I agree with all you said, my intention here is to have counter-arguments, refutations and better insight into our belief.]

 

[jcrichton]

Of course not. Yet they say “Well if they quote from the OT (I’ll just call it that.), it says the name there!”

…you seem to side on the side of those who reject Christ… but here’s an additional aide:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh (fluidity)

Biblical Hebrew was written with consonants only, meaning that the name of God is written YHWH. The original pronunciation of this word was lost many centuries ago, but the available evidence indicates that it was in all likelihood Yahweh.[7] The evidence also suggests that it is the shortened form of a sentence used in worship, and meant “he causes to be” or “he creates”.[7] Most likely the original sentence was el du yahwi seba’ot, “el who creates the hosts”, meaning the heavenly army accompanying the god El as he marched out beside the earthly armies of Israel.[7].

vs.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah (contrived)

Most scholars believe “Jehovah” to be a late (ca. 1100 CE) hybrid form derived by combining the Latin letters JHVH with the vowels of Adonai, but there is some evidence that it may already have been in use in Late Antiquity (5th century).[5][6] It was not the historical vocalization of the Tetragrammaton at the time of the redaction of the Torah (6th century BCE), at which time the most likely vocalization was Yahweh. The historical vocalization was lost because in Second Temple Judaism, during the 3rd to 2nd centuries BCE, the pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton came to be avoided, being substituted with Adonai (“my Lord”).

…so who keeps adding, substracting and twisting Scriptures? Scriptures tells us that that is the anti-Christ… the ones who deny the Son!

Maran atha!

Angel