Need some help

[nickybr38]

Outside of the church or not I have been earnestly praying for my mother almost all of my life, even in my ‘dry’ period, and I’m willing to bet my sister has as well.

My joy has been tempered by my sorrow (for those who are not called) and probably always will be.

Thank you for your prayers!

 

[po18guy]

Outside of the church or not I have been earnestly praying for my mother almost all of my life, even in my ‘dry’ period, and I’m willing to bet my sister has as well.

My joy has been tempered by my sorrow (for those who are not called) and probably always will be.

Thank you for your prayers!

This Christian journey is not all sweetness and light, as it is a spiritual battle. But, to win is pure joy and to lose is eternal torment.

You have two distinct advantages over your mother:

1. The Lord has called you directly, while your mom is basically searching on her own.
2. Catholics can be Christian 100% of the time, whereas all other Christians must be non-Catholic at least some of the time. They must continuously explain and justify their separation from the Catholic Church (as well as from all other denominations).

Christ’s peace be with you on your journey.

 

[PJM]

=nickybr38;6675208]Joe - I will definitely keep you in my prayers!

James - Thank you.

In her enthusiasm my sister revealed to our mother the path I am seeking. It isn’t going down well and I was barraged with a load of bible verses intended to show me the error of my ways… it’s very strange to defend a faith I hardly understand but it was interesting as well.

It is through attack that we grow I suppose!

Edited to add: My mother is a militant (see argumentative) non-denominational Protestant church hopper who is determined to prove the evils of the Catholic church. The rest of my family consists of (not including my sister) lukewarm Christians who believe only what is convenient (I used to be there. ): ).

Some prayers for them would be most appreciated. But I have no doubt that my sister and I are being set apart to be examples for them. One spark leads to a big flame.

Provide the verses [at least some] she is quoting and we’ll show you how to defend our faith. With TRUTH and charity

Love and prayers.
Pat

 

[nickybr38]

This isn’t necessarily on topic but I do have a question!

(I’d better type fast before my break is over! Haha)

THE quinessential verse that Protestants push and believe is John 3:16.

However, the Catholic church teaches it is only through the church OR through BOB and BOD that one can be saved from Hell.

Does Baptism of Desire include believing in Jesus Christ? Or am I understanding John 3:16 incorrectly (I always believed it meant what it says; if you believe in Christ you are saved). We are also told to test the Spirit and any prophet who cannot say that Jesus Christ is the Son of God is not OF God… which would mean many Protestant churches ARE of God… misled or not.

Further, how do mortal sins factor into this? If they aren’t aware their actions are grave sins then they’re not committing mortal sins… which means they’re not guilty of mortal sin which leads to hell…???

I was just reading a thread on this topic but didn’t want to interrupt the debate with my limited knowledge! And now I’m really confused!

I apologize if my question is not worded clearly!

 

[po18guy]

This isn’t necessarily on topic but I do have a question!

(I’d better type fast before my break is over! Haha)

THE quinessential verse that Protestants push and believe is John 3:16.

However, the Catholic church teaches it is only through the church OR through BOB and BOD that one can be saved from Hell.

Does Baptism of Desire include believing in Jesus Christ? Or am I understanding John 3:16 incorrectly (I always believed it meant what it says; if you believe in Christ you are saved). We are also told to test the Spirit and any prophet who cannot say that Jesus Christ is the Son of God is not OF God… which would mean many Protestant churches ARE of God… misled or not.

Further, how do mortal sins factor into this? If they aren’t aware their actions are grave sins then they’re not committing mortal sins… which means they’re not guilty of mortal sin which leads to hell…???

I was just reading a thread on this topic but didn’t want to interrupt the debate with my limited knowledge! And now I’m really confused!

I apologize if my question is not worded clearly!

Every word in the bible is true, and Catholics believe all of it. John 3:16 is 100% true, but not complete. John did not say that no baptism was needed, he just didn’t mention it at all - even though he himself baptized. Here’s the problem: The bible needs proper interpretation, and this is where protestants are derailed. They interpret the bible privately, which Peter (2 Peter 1:20) says we are not supposed to do. Peter particularly said that people distort Paul’s writings (2 Peter 3:16). The Church is the final authority in spiritual matters.

As to how to be saved, as a Christian you can rely on no better teacher than Jesus Himself. In Mark 16:16, He taught, just before He ascended, “Those who believe and are baptized will be saved” This is the what of how to be saved, and is the final word on the subject. But the how of baptism is spoken of in Matthew 29:19 “In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”.

Now, the Baptism of desire is what the repentant thief displayed in Luke 23:42-43. The Baptism of blood is the martyr’s baptism, since one’s own blood is shed for the sake of the faith.

 

[quiet52]

You don’t need to wait for the hard copies:

Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church
vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

Catechism of the Catholic Church
vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

Here are some online brochures and podcasts on the faith – but … don’t digest it all at once. The banquet isn’t going to go away.

Knights of Columbus courses on the faith (click on “Know Your Faith”)
www.kofc.org

 

[quiet52]

THE quinessential verse that Protestants push and believe is John 3:16.

However, the Catholic church teaches it is only through the church OR through BOB and BOD that one can be saved from Hell.

Does Baptism of Desire include believing in Jesus Christ? Or am I understanding John 3:16 incorrectly (I always believed it meant what it says; if you believe in Christ you are saved). We are also told to test the Spirit and any prophet who cannot say that Jesus Christ is the Son of God is not OF God… which would mean many Protestant churches ARE of God… misled or not.

John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.”

You’re actually asking several questions, but I have just a couple of minutes so will address part of your inquiry.

Salvation is not automatic – mere faith doesn’t “get us” to heaven. Many Christians fail to understand the scriptural meaning of faith. From the beginning (Abraham etc.) faith is not a mental understanding, it is something that we respond to. “Faith” means “obedient faith” – many of our Christian brethren understood that well nearly 2000 years ago but have become confused about this since the 16th century.

Even Satan and cohorts believe in God, but we know that because of their choice to separate themselves from God, they will not be saved.

We are saved by the grace of God – God plants the desire to know Him in every heart, and gives each person the power to act on that knowledge (faith and works). He also gives us free will to act on His graces.

Re: being saved through the Catholic Church:

There is but one family of God. There isn’t a “Catholic” heaven and another “Jewish” heaven and another “Hindu” heaven. All in heaven are united in faith, and are enjoying the beatific vision of the Triune God. We believe: “No one, therefore, can enter into communion with God except through Christ, by the working of the Holy Spirit”. Peter was given the keys to the kingdom – all who enter heaven do so through the Catholic Church. We believe that the Catholic Church, founded by Jesus, who is God, has received the fullest deposit of faith from God. She (the Church, the bride of Christ) is guided by the Holy Spirit, and has been charged to protect, preserve and proclaim the teachings.

We are told (in Scripture) that all knees will bend at the name of Jesus (I have read that even those who aren’t going to spend eternity with our Lord will acknowledge that He exists before their eternal teeth-gnashing). Someone who sincerely follows the moral code of his/her faith, whether or not they believe in the triune nature of God, will most likely “make it” to heaven. They may not acknowledge they are following “the Way, the Truth, and the Life” to some degree; Jesus is the judge, not us. We pray for those who have an incomplete understanding of our Lord’s truths, knowing that God wants every soul to be with Him and that the Lord’s Church gives us the greatest means to be saved.

A church document which addresses this is Dominus Iesus:
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html

A few tips on reading the Bible:
usccb.org/nab/bible/index.shtml

 

[nickybr38]

Thank you for your patient explanation (everyone)!

I really, really appreciate it.

 

[JRKH]

You don’t need to wait for the hard copies:

Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church
vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

Catechism of the Catholic Church
vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

Here are some online brochures and podcasts on the faith – but … don’t digest it all at once. The banquet isn’t going to go away.

Knights of Columbus courses on the faith (click on “Know Your Faith”)
www.kofc.org

Good point.
As an alternative to the Vatican site though - This Site has a catechism with a search engine at the bottom of the page. I find it very convenient for seeking help with specific questions.

 

[JRKH]

To add to what others have already said, you can counter with another bible verse -

James 2:19
“You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe–and tremble!”

So If John 3:16 is true,
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.”

then Satan is “saved”?
Of course not. There is much more to it. Simply reducing our faith journey to “faith” or “belief” short changes the Holy Spirit.
We can demonstrate verses from the bible that say belief is not enough (James 2:19), that faith alone is not enough and that Love is greater than faith or Hope (1 Cor 13:1-13), that works are a necessary part of our faith, (Jam 2:14-26)

While I’m told that the following may not be “precisely” correct in it’s terminology, I think that it helps to clarify how, bleif, faith, Love, works etc interrelate and cannot be seperated.

Belief, Grace, Faith, Love and Works are interwoven pieces. They cannot be separated. They can only be placed in “order”.

1. We begin with Grace. Grace is the supernatural foundation. The “seed” that God plants in every soul that enables it to find it’s way back to God.
2. Then comes Belief. We must believe in something before anything else. If we do not believe in God, then the seed of Grace will not grow.
3. After Belief comes Faith. The difference between belief and faith, is simply this: I may believe in the existence of banks, but do I have faith in them. Faith gets into trusting and believing in the promises of God and believing in Jesus Christ and salvation through doing the will of the Father. Learning and developing our faith is nurturing and allowing the seed of God’s grace to grow in us.
4. Then Comes Love. Jesus places Love as the Greatest and center of all of the Law and prophets. What we Love and covet is how we know “where our heart is”. If we Love God and wish to do His will, then we will Love our neighbor unselfishly and wish to act in ways that are pleasing to our love - who is God Himself.
5. Then comes Works. If we believe properly, that is we have a trusting belief, then works will necessarily follow. If works do not follow then there is a problem with one of the above.

I hope some of this helps you.

Peace
James

 

[PJM]

=nickybr38;6676046]This isn’t necessarily on topic but I do have a question!

(I’d better type fast before my break is over! Haha)

THE quinessential verse that Protestants push and believe is John 3:16.

However, the Catholic church teaches it is only through the church OR through BOB and BOD that one can be saved from Hell.

Does Baptism of Desire include believing in Jesus Christ? Or am I understanding John 3:16 incorrectly (I always believed it meant what it says; if you believe in Christ you are saved). We are also told to test the Spirit and any prophet who cannot say that Jesus Christ is the Son of God is not OF God… which would mean many Protestant churches ARE of God… misled or not.

Further, how do mortal sins factor into this? If they aren’t aware their actions are grave sins then they’re not committing mortal sins… which means they’re not guilty of mortal sin which leads to hell…???

I was just reading a thread on this topic but didn’t want to interrupt the debate with my limited knowledge! And now I’m really confused!

I apologize if my question is not worded clearly!

***Both Baptism of Desire and of Blood only become vaild when **John 3:5, *cannot take place. Not due to inconvience, unwillingnessBUT literally can’t happen.

 

[nickybr38]

I just wanted to pop in and say; You guys are great.

Have a blessed day!

 

[nickybr38]

Oh! And today I officially let my current church know (in writing) that my intention is to begin attending the Catholic Church. Yikes! I haven’t had a chance to speak to the pastor personally (she is actually officially no longer the minister as of today but I do believe she will be in church this Sunday. I’m uncertain if I am required to tell her or not… but I feel it would be best since she has been my minister for a little over three years) or to the other parishioners but now that it’s in writing I think I’ll have the mental fortitude to tell them on Sunday.

It’s strange that telling my church family is far easier then telling my family but ah well! I suppose that’s the way it goes. I did tell my mother I am attending Mass next weekend (my weekend off from the United) and her response was less hostile then it could have been. I invited her to come and after she discovered my sister is traveling down to attend with me she is considering coming as well (she hates being left out - even if the activity we’re participating in is something she detests). So a little prayer for her would be appreciated!

I am still committed to my current church until September but I have no doubt by the time September comes I will be ready to enter the Church (at the rate I’m devouring all this information I’ll either be collapsed from exhaustion or fully informed by September Haha!).

 

[PJM]

Oh! And today I officially let my current church know (in writing) that my intention is to begin attending the Catholic Church. Yikes! I haven’t had a chance to speak to the pastor personally (she is actually officially no longer the minister as of today but I do believe she will be in church this Sunday. I’m uncertain if I am required to tell her or not… but I feel it would be best since she has been my minister for a little over three years) or to the other parishioners but now that it’s in writing I think I’ll have the mental fortitude to tell them on Sunday.

It’s strange that telling my church family is far easier then telling my family but ah well! I suppose that’s the way it goes. I did tell my mother I am attending Mass next weekend (my weekend off from the United) and her response was less hostile then it could have been. I invited her to come and after she discovered my sister is traveling down to attend with me she is considering coming as well (she hates being left out - even if the activity we’re participating in is something she detests). So a little prayer for her would be appreciated!

I am still committed to my current church until September but I have no doubt by the time September comes I will be ready to enter the Church (at the rate I’m devouring all this information I’ll either be collapsed from exhaustion or fully informed by September Haha!).

***Hi Nicki,
God’s blessings on Sunday.

As for being ready by September… “From your lips to God’s ears” and yu ought to contact a priest ASAP about RCIA classes.

Love and prayers,

Pat***

 

[po18guy]

Be strong, Nicky, since your current Church, being non-Catholic, definitely thinks you are leaving the truth for error. Most converts to Catholicism mention that “something was missing” from their former churches. That “something”, as strange as it may sound, is Jesus Christ Himself in the Holy Eucharist. Once the bread is consecrated, it becomes His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. Ask your sister if she has ever gone to “adoration” or made a “holy hour”. Most all Catholic Parishes offer it, some offer it 24/7. It can and will change your life.

 

[nickybr38]

Pat - RCIA lessons do not start until September. Although I suspect I’ll be well versed by then!

po18guy - I’ll ask her!

 

[nickybr38]

Okay guys! More prayers are needed. I’ve been sharing some of my journey with my roommate (mostly sharing stories of Eucharistic miracles, sins I’ve been discovering, and some of the fundamentals of Catholicism).

This morning while we were in church she suddenly broke down and revealed to me she wants to know God better. She’s been feeling numb (like me) for several years (like me too!) She asked if I would read the bible with her and help her to know more (a desire I too share!!) and I suggested she study the Catholic Church with me. She agreed so…

I really need some prayer! I’ve never been very good at understanding written word (I have a lazy brain that only processes part of what I read - and write for that matter!) so I’m worried she’ll ask me questions and I won’t be able to help her properly. This is VERY delicate because she was Mormon and a lot of what she knows comes from the Mormon teachings. AND because I’m new to this as well! Like her I have very little idea what I’m doing! Haha.

Thanks guys! Yikes! The Spirit moves and all fall at God’s feet!!

 

[JRKH]

Okay guys! More prayers are needed. I’ve been sharing some of my journey with my roommate (mostly sharing stories of Eucharistic miracles, sins I’ve been discovering, and some of the fundamentals of Catholicism).

This morning while we were in church she suddenly broke down and revealed to me she wants to know God better. She’s been feeling numb (like me) for several years (like me too!) She asked if I would read the bible with her and help her to know more (a desire I too share!!) and I suggested she study the Catholic Church with me. She agreed so…

I really need some prayer! I’ve never been very good at understanding written word (I have a lazy brain that only processes part of what I read - and write for that matter!) so I’m worried she’ll ask me questions and I won’t be able to help her properly. This is VERY delicate because she was Mormon and a lot of what she knows comes from the Mormon teachings. AND because I’m new to this as well! Like her I have very little idea what I’m doing! Haha.

Thanks guys! Yikes! The Spirit moves and all fall at God’s feet!!

This will be an intention on my next rosary.

For the biggest impact read the Gospels first. My favorite is Matthew. The Gospels giv eteh core of our hope in Christ’s teachings and example. Just the antidote for feeling “numb”.

Peace
James

 

[nickybr38]

Do you think it’s okay to teach her the rosary? I was doing it LONG before I decided to come to the Catholich Church - long before I even accepted intercessory prayer. Haha. Anyway, she’s seen me doing it so I took her through it tonight.

If it’s not recommended, which prayers would you suggest I teach her? Since at this point she’d like specific prayers to say rather then speaking with her own words.

 

[JRKH]

Do you think it’s okay to teach her the rosary? I was doing it LONG before I decided to come to the Catholich Church - long before I even accepted intercessory prayer. Haha. Anyway, she’s seen me doing it so I took her through it tonight.

If it’s not recommended, which prayers would you suggest I teach her? Since at this point she’d like specific prayers to say rather then speaking with her own words.

If she is so inclined to accept and properly pray the rosary - then by all means pray it with her. It is indeed a very uplifiting prayer.

As for “Formulaic Prayers” It will depend on what you wish to pray for.
The “our Father” is, of couse the “perfect prayer” having been give to us by Jesus Himself, and can easily lead to some pretty deep and profound contemplation on each of it’s praises and requests. (I’ve divided them up into 5)

It’s just hard to suggest without knowing really the person and having talked to them.

Perhaps you could go to a Catholic book store and purchase a small prayerbook for her, and then you and she could look through it together and pick out prayers that you both like. you should be able to get a small one for less than $10. Acouple years ago, I got a nice one for my wife for about $8.

Peace
James