Neo-Pagan views of the Christian God

[dzheremi]

Yeah the soviets… Where are they now?

Sure. They get murdered. Since when has God ever put a bullet proof shield around his followers? The thing is. it’s still there. Sorry but you fail hard on that statement.

I dunno, Latin Rite…the Popemobile…

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Some where punished TEMPORARILY for there actions.

Punishment in the Outer Darkness/Lake of Fire and punishment in Tartarus is not temporary (unless, in the case of Egyptian mythology, you believe that being tortured into a state of non-existence is temporary). You could end up there for a variety of reasons; some just and some unjust. I’m not sure about Hel.

 

[cyberwolf001]

Punishment in the Outer Darkness/Lake of Fire and punishment in Tartarus is not temporary (unless, in the case of Egyptian mythology, you believe that being tortured into a state of non-existence is temporary). You could end up there for a variety of reasons; some just and some unjust. I’m not sure about Hel.

Did you read the source material? Or did you read those books that try to shoehorn everything into a Christian context?

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Did you read the source material? Or did you read those books that try to shoehorn everything into a Christian context?

It can be found in the source material. For example, the Book of the Dead.

 

[latin_rite]

But did I say it?

AWWW So you don’t think that christianity stole from the pagans. About time one of you ppl faced up those facts. Good on you:thumbsup:

extra ecclesiam nulla salus, of course it has been changed now, or the prefered term come to a fuller and more complete understanding. Main reason above all others I left, the Church changes her supposeld unchangeable doctrines. But this thread isn’t about why I left OR the infallible teachings of the Church.

extra ecclesiam nulla salus. So you get up set when we say ya all are going to hell. then cry around when we say ya all aren’t going to hell?

it happened last time there is a list I am putting together of Pagans maryred for there faith.

Ian already addressed these and I am putting together a list of Pagan Martyr’s.

And he failed

Some where punished TEMPORARILY for there actions.

Explain temporarily

You said the relationships where like friendships. I pointed out they can very from worshipper to worshipper and diety to diety. What point did I miss?

The point that i was responding to a joke from someone who said God had so few friends. And i said that Gods friends might be fewer but more meaningful. Where as budda etc friends were more like the friends u get on face book.

 

[GeorgeSword]

All of the sources you listed for the ‘death camps’ are clearly either anti-Christian or anti-religion. Just read a few of thew names for yourself. Provide me with a single, unbiased source (I.E. encyclopedia, reputable history book).
You still did not answer my question. Where were the Pagan gods when their monuments were thrown down, when their last priests turned their backs from them?

 

[cyberwolf001]

AWWW So you don’t think that christianity stole from the pagans. About time one of you ppl faced up those facts. Good on you:thumbsup:

Stole everything? Nope. Stole some things and others got carried over in a cultural transfer? Yes.

extra ecclesiam nulla salus. So you get up set when we say ya all are going to hell. then cry around when we say ya all aren’t going to hell?

No just named the teaching on hell. Then I gave a bit more about why I left the Church, i.e. it claims to be unchanging and yet alters in unalterable teachings constantly.

And he failed

I think he did rather well.

Explain temporarily

Um your kidding right? Link to Webster’s dictionary on temporarily

You have got to be kidding me man.

The point that i was responding to a joke from someone who said God had so few friends. And i said that Gods friends might be fewer but more meaningful. Where as budda etc friends were more like the friends u get on face book.

An I gave a response and pointed out it varies. What point did I miss explaining how your statement is rather wrong on a few levels.

 

[latin_rite]

Pope Liberius building Pagan death camps? Now that’s a new one. Got any sources to back it up?

Every single web site that is listed as his source shows this text​

314
Immediately after its full legalisation, the Christian Church attacks the Gentiles: The Council of Ancyra denounces the worship of the Goddess Artemis.

324
Emperor Constantine declares Christianity the only official religion of the Roman Empire. At Dydima, Asia Minor, he sacks the Oracle of God Apollo and tortures its Pagan priests to death. He evicts the Gentiles from Mt. Athos and destroys all local Hellenic Temples.

326
Emperor Constantine, following the instructions of his mother Helen, destroys the Temple of the God Asclepius in Aigeai of Cilicia and many Temples of the Goddess Aphrodite in Jerusalem, Aphaca, Mambre, Phoenice, Baalbek, etc.

330
Constantine steals the treasures and statues of the Pagan Temples in Greece to decorate Nova Roma (Constantinople), the new capital of his Empire.

335
Constantine sacks many Pagan Temples of Asia Minor and Palestine and orders the execution by crucifixion of “all magicians and soothsayers". Martyrdom of the neoplatonist philosopher Sopatros.

341
Emperor Constas, son of Constantinus, persecutes “all the soothsayers and the Hellenists”. Many Gentile Hellenes are either imprisoned or executed.

346
New large-scale persecutions of the Gentiles in Constantinople. Banishment of the famous orator Libanius, who is accused of being a "magician​

I could go on…But it is so long. The claims don’t change. In fact it looks like They were cut and pasted from one web site.And spread like a virus from one anti Christian web site to the next. I’ve tried to research the claims but didn’t come up with much. Not saying nothing happened on those days. But i think there is a lot of personal spin on it.

 

[GeorgeSword]

Furthermore, I might add that in the time if Lberius, and of Constantine, Christianity was not the official religion of Rome. Paganism was frowned upon, and admitedly did suffer some persecutions, but nothing compared to what the Christians had gone through earlier. It was not until Theodosius that Paganism was banned entirely.

 

[cyberwolf001]

All of the sources you listed for the ‘death camps’ are clearly either anti-Christian or anti-religion. Just read a few of thew names for yourself. Provide me with a single, unbiased source (I.E. encyclopedia, reputable history book).

Why? You’ll just dismiss them as biased too.

You still did not answer my question. Where were the Pagan gods when their monuments were thrown down, when their last priests turned their backs from them?

Between me and Ian this has been answered a few times now. Oddly a Christian even gave the same answer as Ian and myself when asked where was God when the communist came and destroyed Churches.

I’ll repeat it now. Did God’s did not abandon us. We abandoned them, they have no interest in forcing people to follow them. Here and there libations where poured to them even after the conversion and now we have a full on revival going.

 

[GeorgeSword]

Why? You’ll just dismiss them as biased too.

No, do show me. Show me something without ‘End Religion’ or ‘Jesus Never Existed’ in the title and I might take it seriously. And preferably a source that knows basic Roman history, such as when and when not Christianity was the official religion.

Between me and Ian this has been answered a few times now. Oddly a Christian even gave the same answer as Ian and myself when asked where was God when the communist came and destroyed Churches.

The difference is, is that we do not expect God to magically make everything alright. Temples have fallen, but to us, He is not the magical vending machine in the sky. Don’t get me wrong, in times of great need He is always there, but He understands that we do not need these grand temples and holy sites to worship at. All we need is our faith, and that has never fallen. The Pagan faith did fall. If it had survived underground, why is it that modern ‘Pagans’ such as yourself have ended up making up their own rituals and beliefs due to the lack of them?

 

[latin_rite]

Stole everything? Nope. Stole some things and others got carried over in a cultural transfer? Yes.

So you do say that we stole from you?

I think he did rather well.

Well you have too. Doesn’t mean he did.

.

your kidding right? Link to Webster’s dictionary on temporarily

You have got to be kidding me man.

No i’m not kidding. You know in what context i asked you to explain the meaning of the word temporarily. Now can you do so. In the context of the question.

.

i gave a response and pointed out it varies. What point did I miss explaining how your statement is rather wrong on a few levels.

SIGH. Ok Someone said in joke… ok? That a woman said to God no wonder you have so few friends… ok? And i said…That Gods friends are meaningful …ok? and buddas etc friends Are more like the friends you have on face book… ok? What i’m saying is that people who could be counted as Gods friends Are more meaning-ful loyal firends ok?
ANd all people like budda and pagan gods can muster up are friends like you find on face book…OK?

 

[cyberwolf001]

No, do show me. Show me something without ‘End Religion’ or ‘Jesus Never Existed’ in the title and I might take it seriously. And preferably a source that knows basic Roman history, such as when and when not Christianity was the official religion.

Several of the links didn’t have that. Your just focusing on two of them.

The difference is, is that we do not expect God to magically make everything alright.

Neither do we.

The Pagan faith did fall. If it had survived underground, why is it that modern ‘Pagans’ such as yourself have ended up making up their own rituals and beliefs due to the lack of them?

The beliefs and the Gods survived and more is being uncovered. Why is it so important to have the righ rituals? This isn’t the Catholic Church you know, a prayer and pouring out drink is all you reall need.

 

[GeorgeSword]

I was just using two of those as an example. They all seem to be pretty unreliable, though. I wouldn’t use the Catholic Encylopedia for information on Paganism, or Chick.com for information on Catholicism. Even Wikipedia, freely open to all the editing you like, makes no mention of this. Neither does Britannica.

 

[cyberwolf001]

So you do say that we stole from you?

I said the same thing happens when two cultures clash. There is a see change. Some things orignal, some transfered and some stole. To be counted as stolen the Holiday/ritual/or what have you has to be protrated as having always belonged to the group that took it.

The majority of items however where simply transfered over.

Well you have too. Doesn’t mean he did.

Why do I have to.

No i’m not kidding. You know in what context i asked you to explain the meaning of the word temporarily. Now can you do so. In the context of the question.

Really don’t get what you want here. Temporarily as in not forever, not perminate and so on.

SIGH. Ok Someone said in joke… ok? That a woman said to God no wonder you have so few friends… ok? And i said…That Gods friends are meaningful …ok? and buddas etc friends Are more like the friends you have on face book… ok? What i’m saying is that people who could be counted as Gods friends Are more meaning-ful loyal firends ok?
ANd all people like budda and pagan gods can muster up are friends like you find on face book…OK?

An I’ll repeat: That is not true. Many of these friendships are intimate and close, others very buisness like and still others you could call a facebook friendship.

 

[cyberwolf001]

I was just using two of those as an example. They all seem to be pretty unreliable, though. I wouldn’t use the Catholic Encylopedia for information on Paganism, or Chick.com for information on Catholicism. Even Wikipedia, freely open to all the editing you like, makes no mention of this. Neither does Britannica.

I am trying to track down a book in current print. Difficult as a lot of info on Skythopolis isn’t in English.

 

[GeorgeSword]

Thank you. I’m not trying to be a jerk about it, I’d just like to see some reputable info on it. If you have something in another language that is online, I should be able to get it roughly translated in Babelfish.

 

[GeorgeSword]

I said the same thing happens when two cultures clash. There is a see change. Some things orignal, some transfered and some stole. To be counted as stolen the Holiday/ritual/or what have you has to be protrated as having always belonged to the group that took it.

I’m not going to deny that we ‘borrowed’ a few symbols and dates used by Pagans, since it does admitedly make the conversion easier for some if a few of their traditions survive, but we didn’t simply just take them. We gave them new meaning. Perhaps Christmas is at the same time as winter Solstice and Saturnalia, but we are celebrating something entirely different.

 

[cyberwolf001]

I’m not going to deny that we ‘borrowed’ a few symbols and dates used by Pagans, since it does admitedly make the conversion easier for some if a few of their traditions survive, but we didn’t simply just take them. We gave them new meaning. Perhaps Christmas is at the same time as winter Solstice and Saturnalia, but we are celebrating something entirely different.

The few things I consider stolen are Briget’s flame. The temple taken over my force and rededicated to a Saint that the Church is no long sure really existed, which is actually fine as some Pagan pilgrims got hold of the flame (The Nun’s there will light a candle with it and from there on that candle is considered the flame lit or not) and have retaken the devotion.

A few other temples taken via force and the had stories added on saying it was always Catholic. Again it works out for us as these sites are become pilgrimage destinations for the new Paganism. To be honest George to me it almost feels like the God’s prepared a time capsule of stuff for us for when a revival could occure.

 

[latin_rite]

The few things I consider stolen are Briget’s flame. The temple taken over my force and rededicated to a Saint that the Church is no long sure really existed, which is actually fine as some Pagan pilgrims got hold of the flame (The Nun’s there will light a candle with it and from there on that candle is considered the flame lit or not) and have retaken the devotion.

Wow a flame dating all the way back to 1993. Well i suppose that is old comapred to how old this neo paganism is.

A few other temples taken via force and the had stories added on saying it was always Catholic. Again it works out for us as these sites are become pilgrimage destinations for the new Paganism. To be honest George to me it almost feels like the God’s prepared a time capsule of stuff for us for when a revival could occure.

I can just imangine a convo between two pagans at those Catholic places.
Pagan1: What are doing here again?
pagan 2" I don’t know for sure. But someone said on the internets this used to be a pagan temple.
pagan1. Cool who’s?
pagan2 i don’t know
pagan1 what do we do?
pagan2 i don’t know…Just look religous.
pagan1: well the Catholics pray and drink from the cup. Shall we do that?
pagan2 : ok.lets do that. Did you know pagans also drunk from cups? So the Catholics must have stolen that from us too.