Neo-Paganism Q&A

[Eris_Discordia]

Monica, I know this wasn’t directed at me, but I figure I’ll give my answer, anyway.

Pagans in general think that yes, our natural state is good. We don’t believe in a fallen state, or original sin- that’s a Christian concept. Without that idea in there, it makes absolute sense that pagans would see natural as good–there’s no reason for it not to be.

Personally, I think pain and sickness is as natural as health and joy. Without one, we would have no basis of comparison for the other–how do I know what I’m feeling is joy, when I’ve never known or seen sorrow? Obviously, one is preferable to the other, but I don’t think there will ever be a world where pain and sickness don’t exist. Such a world would be without joy, also, and most likely without feeling entirely. Positive and negative emotions and physical feelings must exist together–not necessarily simultaneously in the same person, but the amount of any sensation is relative to the experience of other, opposing sensations. I might say a toothache is the worst pain I’ve ever felt, but that might just be because I’ve never known the pain of a missing limb. These sensations are relative, on a scale, and you have to have both sides of the scale to know which side you’re on, if that makes sense.

If you’ve read the book The Giver, it’'s kind of the same principle. There is no bad emotions, no real pain, no real sorrow, but at the same time, there was no true joy and happiness. Everything was hollow. It’s an empty existence without pain and suffering. Even though it is horrible to suffer and feel pain, it helps us appreciate all of the good in your life. Everyone has had hard times, and no one can say that they’ve never experienced any hardship. Emotions are what make us human, both good and bad ones. There is always darkness in light, and light in darkness.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Come on now, the Giver is a sixth grade/seventh grade book. In fact, we’ll be reading it in about a month. We have a whole unit around that book. It’s pretty tripped out. Honestly it’s poorly-written (Lois Lowry is a trip!) at times but overall I like the dystopian 1984 style of it and the kids learn a lot from it. Crazy book though!

If you’ve read the book The Giver, it’'s kind of the same principle. There is no bad emotions, no real pain, no real sorrow, but at the same time, there was no true joy and happiness. Everything was hollow. It’s an empty existence without pain and suffering. Even though it is horrible to suffer and feel pain, it helps us appreciate all of the good in your life. Everyone has had hard times, and no one can say that they’ve never experienced any hardship. Emotions are what make us human, both good and bad ones. There is always darkness in light, and light in darkness.

 

[Eris_Discordia]

Come on now, the Giver is a sixth grade/seventh grade book. In fact, we’ll be reading it in about a month. We have a whole unit around that book. It’s pretty tripped out. Honestly it’s poorly-written (Lois Lowry is a trip!) at times but overall I like the dystopian 1984 style of it and the kids learn a lot from it. Crazy book though!

That’s when I read it. I loved it a lot. Sure it’s not a book for older people, but it has a lot of good things to think on. I love dystopian books. I’ve read Fahrenheit 451 and Brave New Worlds. They were amazing. Yes, it is a crazy book that’s why I love it. I can relate a lot to it.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I still think Lois Lowry is smoking the pizipe! She must be smokin’ catnip. Her books are tripped out. Number the Stars is a good one, too.

Don’t you think The Giver is a bit of a rip-off of George Lucas’ first movie, “THX-1138?” No love, no sexuality, no true family, drones in a big hive type thing? It’s a hybrid of 1138, 1984 and Aldus Huxley with a pinch of Blade Runner lol…

There was some lame stuff in that book though, too. Like the parts bathing the old people, awwwwwwkward!

That’s when I read it. I loved it a lot. Sure it’s not a book for older people, but it has a lot of good things to think on. I love dystopian books. I’ve read Fahrenheit 451 and Brave New Worlds. They were amazing. Yes, it is a crazy book that’s why I love it. I can relate a lot to it.

 

[Eris_Discordia]

I still think Lois Lowry is smoking the pizipe! She must be smokin’ catnip. Her books are tripped out. Number the Stars is a good one, too.

Don’t you think The Giver is a bit of a rip-off of George Lucas’ first movie, “THX-1138?” No love, no sexuality, no true family, drones in a big hive type thing? It’s a hybrid of 1138, 1984 and Aldus Huxley with a pinch of Blade Runner lol…

There was some lame stuff in that book though, too. Like the parts bathing the old people, awwwwwwkward!

Yeah, that freaked me out a weeeee bit. But it was still a good thing to read.

 

[cyberwolf001]

I fast FYI I just received word that Brotherhrolf has joined the Ancestors. So out of respect to his faith rosaries for him and if you don’t pray them ask your Catholic friends to do so.

I’ll be posting a pray request for him at the Adoration Shrine at my old Parish.

 

[IanCorrigan]

I fast FYI I just received word that Brotherhrolf has joined the Ancestors. So out of respect to his faith rosaries for him and if you don’t pray them ask your Catholic friends to do so.

I’ll be posting a pray request for him at the Adoration Shrine at my old Parish.

Sorry to hear it! Hrolf was a sensible and even-minded fellow, as far as I can tell from several conversations here.
May he be received among his people with joy.
Ian

 

[lil_flower_luv]

I fast FYI I just received word that Brotherhrolf has joined the Ancestors. So out of respect to his faith rosaries for him and if you don’t pray them ask your Catholic friends to do so.

I’ll be posting a pray request for him at the Adoration Shrine at my old Parish.

Thank you for letting me know. He is already in my prayers.

 

[cyberwolf001]

It makes one wonder if paganism was such a great religion why it didn’t lay dormant in any significant numbers and make a good comeback in Europe?

Well it actually is making a comeback now. There has also been an ongoing revival for centuries. In the far North of Europe in remote and isolated areas we have even found some Pagan groups that survived all this time.

Would this count?

Hi

just a question for you, - do you think our natural state is good? why do you think so?

Easy Paganism doesn’t have a “Fall” in it. As Christianity does. That’s really all there is to it.

I’m just wondering, why do you think that our natural state is what it’s supposed to be?

You can learn it just be observation. Outside of Israel and attempts at revisionist History all Cultures are Pagan. An Christianity got to wear it is by being in the right place at the right time and now continues on mainly via inertia and force.

However as the laws past to outlaw rival religions are repelled and many Churches can no longer make use of force (still done in some parts of the World just look at the brutal oppression of Hellenic Pagans in Greece by the Orthodox) the Pagan faith is springing back just as it did in days past.

 

[NoWings]

Easy Paganism doesn’t have a “Fall” in it. As Christianity does. That’s really all there is to it.

As far as I can tell, paganism believes that we’re mixtures of light and dark and embrace both because that’s what is reflected in nature.

 

[cyberwolf001]

As far as I can tell, paganism believes that we’re mixtures of light and dark and embrace both because that’s what is reflected in nature.

Exactly

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I’ve gone to Star Trek conventions where people were dressed in $10,000 Klingon suits, beards, make-up and fake teeth talking in a fake Klingon language created by Marc Okrand. Doesn’t mean it’s a real culture! Growing numbers playing dress up doesn’t do it for me.

Well it actually is making a comeback now. There has also been an ongoing revival for centuries. In the far North of Europe in remote and isolated areas we have even found some Pagan groups that survived all this time.

Would this count?

Easy Paganism doesn’t have a “Fall” in it. As Christianity does. That’s really all there is to it.

You can learn it just be observation. Outside of Israel and attempts at revisionist History all Cultures are Pagan. An Christianity got to wear it is by being in the right place at the right time and now continues on mainly via inertia and force.

However as the laws past to outlaw rival religions are repelled and many Churches can no longer make use of force (still done in some parts of the World just look at the brutal oppression of Hellenic Pagans in Greece by the Orthodox) the Pagan faith is springing back just as it did in days past.

 

[kenofken]

You’ll never catch a pagan spending $10,000 on just about anything, let alone a Klingon suit!

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

What are pagans cheap skates? lol…How about for a Romulan suit!? Come to think of it, those druid robes and witchy wicca getups that look like a Stevie Nicks album cover are pretty cheap!

You’ll never catch a pagan spending $10,000 on just about anything, let alone a Klingon suit!

 

[cyberwolf001]

I’ve gone to Star Trek conventions where people were dressed in $10,000 Klingon suits, beards, make-up and fake teeth talking in a fake Klingon language created by Marc Okrand. Doesn’t mean it’s a real culture! Growing numbers playing dress up doesn’t do it for me.

What does Star Trek have to do with this?

We have Federal Recognition in an ever growing number of nations.

More of our members are entering government. Dan Halloran for example is said to be considering running for congress on the GOP ticket and is getting support from the local Tea Party of all things!.

In Scotland Pagan Police officers get the Eight High Days off. An Druids are a majority in some sectors of the government.

We are building churches, worship centers and organizations of the local and national level.

Our numbers double every year and have been doing so ever since the 80s.

What more need we do?

 

[Belathene]

I’ve gone to Star Trek conventions where people were dressed in $10,000 Klingon suits, beards, make-up and fake teeth talking in a fake Klingon language created by Marc Okrand. Doesn’t mean it’s a real culture! Growing numbers playing dress up doesn’t do it for me.

Cultures rise and fall all the time. They blend; they merge; they separate. Why is a pagan culture so hard to accept? I’ll point you to the dictionary definition, from dictionary.com:

cul·ture
   /ˈkʌltʃər/ Show Spelled [kuhl-cher] Show IPA noun, verb,-tured, -tur·ing.
–noun
1.
the quality in a person or society that arises from a concern for what is regarded as excellent in arts, letters, manners, scholarly pursuits, etc.
2.
that which is excellent in the arts, manners, etc.
3.
a particular form or stage of civilization, as that of a certain nation or period: Greek culture.
4.
development or improvement of the mind by education or training.
5.
the behaviors and beliefs characteristic of a particular social, ethnic, or age group: the youth culture; the drug culture.
6.
Anthropology. the sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and transmitted from one generation to another.

I’d say Pagan culture fits the bill for most of that, particularly definitions 1, 4, 5, and 6. And even those who revolve their lives around star trek (or any other fictional pursuit) are said to have their own culture, and it is legitimate by sociological standards.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Cultures rise and fall all the time. They blend; they merge; they separate. Why is a pagan culture so hard to accept? I’ll point you to the dictionary definition, from dictionary.com:

LOL:whacky:
I’d say Pagan culture fits the bill for most of that, particularly definitions 1, 4, 5, and 6. And even those who revolve their lives around star trek (or any other fictional pursuit) are said to have their own culture, and it is legitimate by sociological standards.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Anyone can cook up a religion. Ask L. Ron Hubbard. If Tom Cruise wants to join up and jump on Oprah’s couch, no skin off my nose. If you guys want to dress up like Druids and celebrate solstices and visit monoliths, I’m fine with it. I just don’t take that stuff seriously. There are people who think they can make a religion out of Harry Potter or Twilight. Whatever floats their boats! I think you hit the nail on the head though…“in an ever-growing number of religions” you say. You’re right. People in this country are, all the time, trying to make sense of the world and fall for fads that they’re not accustomed to like yoga or feng shui or the occult, wicca, objectivism, etc. I’m sure there’s a Liza Minneli cult somewhere. I’m satisfied to continue to walk in Christ Jesus and the Catholic faith that helped shape this judeo-christian nation and western civilization we live in. I’m satisfied to take up my Cross and walk down the tough road with the Lord, not walking in fads to satisfy my urges or lower base self. I find all this stuff tedious and corny. Sorry. They should add “Oprahism” to the catalog too because more women are brain-washed by that media mogul than any religion anywhere…

What does Star Trek have to do with this?

We have Federal Recognition in an ever growing number of nations.

More of our members are entering government. Dan Halloran for example is said to be considering running for congress on the GOP ticket and is getting support from the local Tea Party of all things!.

In Scotland Pagan Police officers get the Eight High Days off. An Druids are a majority in some sectors of the government.

We are building churches, worship centers and organizations of the local and national level.

Our numbers double every year and have been doing so ever since the 80s.

What more need we do?

 

[lil_flower_luv]

How right you are gurney! I believe we were all created to have a desire to know who our Creator is…and always search for some meaning in our lives. A lot of people like to give it a fancy name (atheism, agnosticism, paganism) but no matter what, as St. Augustine said, "We will be restless until we rest in Christ."

 

[cyberwolf001]

Gurney you seem determined to keep calling Paganism a fad dispite the fact even the Neo-Pagan faith is anywhere from 60 to a couple of hundred years old.

You say there was no resistance or attempted revivals of Paganism, when I mentioned some survived you just claimed it didn’t count.

It’s like your trying your best to only believe the sterotypes of the Faith instead of looking at it for what it is.