New ‘Declaration of Truths’ Affirms Key Church Teachings

[billsherman]

The Church has never sanctioned slavery.

The Church has owned slaves. I think that counts as sanctioning.

For just one of thousands of examples start reading on page 12:

Georgetown Reflects on Slavery, Memory, and Reconciliation - Georgetown University

Home Georgetown Reflects on Slavery, Memory, and Reconciliation Georgetown Reflects on Slavery, Memory, and Reconciliation Georgetown is engaged in a long-term and ongoing process to more deeply understand and respond to the university’s role in the injustice of slavery and the legacies of...

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[KMG]

The Church has never sanctioned slavery.

 

[Emeraldlady]

If something is not spoken ex cathedra and is not supported by doctrine and Tradition, I believe that it is reasonable to use a well formed conscience to evaluate for yourself.

Humanae Vitae was not an ex cathedra statement. There is nothing explicitly in Scripture prohibiting contraception. Their was uncertainty among theologians about whether the new drugs were technically different to natural methods of avoiding pregnancy. The literature from the Church is abundant now supporting prohibition but not back in the 60’s, 70’s and even in the 80’s there was enough doubt from individual theologians to feel justified in using it. I chose not to use contraception when I got married in the 80’s solely because that was the teaching of Pope St Paul VI. And today, I choose solely to accept the teaching of Pope Francis solely because I trust in the authority of the Church to lead over individual theologians.

 

[13pollitos]

Humane Vitae is one of many statements made on contraception throughout history. It was not anything new or different. It was a confirmation of Truth. It was supported by both Tradition and doctrine. It was confirming that the Church DID NOT change anything whatsoever, regardless of the changes other denominations were making.

At one time, ALL Christian churches spoke against birth control. That started changing. Some Catholic bishops were wanting the change as well and some even told their flocks that it was changing soon. Some Catholic priests told their parishioners that it was a matter of conscience. Pope Paul VI issued Humane Vitae which confirmed no changes to the forever teaching against contraception was changing.

It is supported by doctrine (contraception is an intrinsic evil) and Tradition (the Church always taught that). Even if Humane Vitae was never issued, the Church would still teach contraception is intrinsically evil. It was issued as a way to ease the confusion of the time period. It would be nice if the Pope would do something like that for us today. We need the clarity. Pope Paul VI delivered clarity.

 

[AlbMagno]

So it is a case of hypocrisy in the Church?

 

[billsherman]

The Church has never sanctioned slavery.

I think the thousands and thousands of slaves owned by the Church would disagree, but believe whatever makes you happy!

 

[Emeraldlady]

Humane Vitae is one of many statements made on contraception throughout history. It was not anything new or different. It was a confirmation of Truth. It was supported by both Tradition and doctrine. It was confirming that the Church DID NOT change anything whatsoever, regardless of the changes other denominations were making.

At one time, ALL Christian churches spoke against birth control. That started changing. Some Catholic bishops were wanting the change as well and some even told their flocks that it was changing soon. Some Catholic priests told their parishioners that it was a matter of conscience. Pope Paul VI issued Humane Vitae which confirmed no changes to the forever teaching against contraception was changing.

It is supported by doctrine (contraception is an intrinsic evil) and Tradition (the Church always taught that). Even if Humane Vitae was never issued, the Church would still teach contraception is intrinsically evil. It was issued as a way to ease the confusion of the time period. It would be nice if the Pope would do something like that for us today. We need the clarity. Pope Paul VI delivered clarity.

No you are not representing the trajectory of events accurately. At the time that the new drugs came about there was uncertainty among theologians about what they technically qualified as prohibited considering that the only previous forms of contraception were barrier type methods that were associated with the sin of Onan (Gen 38.9)

Conservative theologians who also rejected natural methods of avoiding pregnancy such as counting days and abstaining, regarded the new pill as of the same nature as natural family planning methods. This was not just a case of a Church verses progessives issue. There was work needed to fully understand the difference between the pill and natural methods.

With the environment that some theologians were for the pill and other theologians against any kind of birth control even natural observations, there was a lot of confusion among ordinary Catholics as to what constituted tradition and continual teaching and what didn’t. It was definitely not a case of black vs white. Even after Humanae Vitae it has taken many years of study within the Church to get to a clarity that can form a solid philosophical and theological defense for ordinary Catholics.

That’s how the Church works. We trust that the Pope is guided by the Holy Spirit and that in time fullness is revealed through the work of the Church.

 

[13pollitos]

The Church has always spoken against contraception. At one point in time even protestant churches did as well. The fact that some within the Church were attempting to change that was clarified by Humane Vitae, which is rooted in doctrine and Tradition.

There are older documents that also speak against contraception. It wasn’t anything new.

 

[Emeraldlady]

The Church has always spoken against contraception. At one point in time even protestant churches did as well. The fact that some within the Church were attempting to change that was clarified by Humane Vitae, which is rooted in doctrine and Tradition.

There are older documents that also speak against contraception. It wasn’t anything new.

No. You are misrepresenting the discussion, debates, uncertainty and confusion that the Church encountered among theologians in the 60’s with the advent of the chemical pill. Did you know that some conservative theologians regarded it to be of the same nature as natural family planning?

 

[13pollitos]

You do realize that the “conservative theologians” opposed to NFP also opposed to contraception, right? And that there are historical writings from saints and previous popes that have always said contraception is wrong. You do know that right? Nothing was changed by Pope Paul VI, despite the fact that many Catholics (including theologians, bishops and priests) pushed for allowing contraception. Many were positive Pope Paul VI would allow contraception. He didn’t.

If Paul VI opted to allow contraception, that would have been a change. It would not be supported by either doctrine or Tradition. Catholics would be free to dissent, and truthfully would be called to dissent. Every piece of Humane Vitae confirms the past writings and teachings of the Church, though. Therefore, Catholics are called to accept it.

The Church has allowed NFP to be used. There are also older documents and writings as well that say NFP is allowed. Once again, Humane Vitae made no changes. It was issued and provided clarity at a time that needed it. It is rooted in Tradition and doctrine.

 

[13pollitos]

Did you know that some conservative theologians regarded it to be of the same nature as natural family planning?

You are correct. Some progressives did as well. Today, you will see both groups still feel the same way. You will still meet people on both sides that believe there is no difference. Conservatives that will avoid NFP at all costs and progressives that use contraception.

 

[Emeraldlady]

You do realize that the “conservative theologians” opposed to NFP also opposed to contraception, right?

I stated as much in post 248. You are presenting Church teaching on this matter as if it were as black and white as murder has always been. On the other hand the teaching on contraception has been debated and developed with time and in the light of new innovations in the field.

The point is that those of us who did not use contraception even though we didn’t really understand why it was so bad, did so because we believed in the authority of the Pope to decree such things. Not because we fully understood. You and others here no longer agree with the principle of that authority. You state that if you don’t understand something, you are free to reject it even if a Pope decrees it.

 

[13pollitos]

You and others here no longer agree with the principle of that authority. You state that if you don’t understand something, you are free to reject it even if a Pope decrees it.

That is not what I stated. I said

If something is not spoken ex cathedra and is not supported by doctrine and Tradition, I believe that it is reasonable to use a well formed conscience to evaluate for yourself.

This is not anti catholic. This is not going against the church. This is exactly what most of us who attended catholic schools were taught by the good sisters so we would not fall into idolizing the papacy.

You brought up Humane Vitae. I stated that it follows both doctrine and Tradition. We don’t have to understand 100% any and all doctrines and Traditions. How can we understand the Trinity, the Real Presence, God’s Grace in the Confessional and much more. But they are all part of doctrine and Tradition. When a pope speaks ex cathedra we also must accept it if we don’t understand. It become part of our doctrine and Tradition.

In cases where neither doctrine nor Tradition are being followed, and the Pope has not spoken ex cathedra, we must reason things out. God gave us that ability. If clarification is needed and asked for, it would make things easier if we would receive it.

 

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

You and others here no longer agree with the principle of that authority. You state that if you don’t understand something, you are free to reject it even if a Pope decrees it.

That is not what I stated. I said

If something is not spoken ex cathedra and is not supported by doctrine and Tradition, I believe that it is reasonable to use a well formed conscience to evaluate for yourself.

This is not anti catholic. This is not going against the church. This is exactly what most of us who attended catholic schools were taught by the good sisters so we would not fall into idolizing the papacy.

You brought up Humane Vitae. I stated that it follows both doctrine and Tradition. We don’t have to understand 100% any and all doctrines and Traditions. How can we understand the Trinity, the Real Presence, God’s Grace in the Confessional and much more. But they are all part of doctrine and Tradition. When a pope speaks ex cathedra we also must accept it if we don’t understand. It become part of our doctrine and Tradition.

In cases where neither doctrine nor Tradition are being followed, and the Pope has not spoken ex cathedra, we must reason things out. God gave us that ability. If clarification is needed and asked for, it would make things easier if we would receive it.

This is not what I was taught by the good sisters. Can you tell me how old you are and what order of nuns taught you?

 

[13pollitos]

I attended catholic school from first grade to 12th grade, with the exception of grades 3 and 4. I went to public school those years.

The orders depended on the school (we moved a few times) but one of the orders was Sisters of Notre Dame (grades 5 and 6 and I think 7 as well) and in high school we had diocesan priests teach our religion classes. We were taught to develop our minds and to fully form our consciences because God intended for us to think for ourselves, not just follow along. Fully developed consciences that are well formed in the Truths of our faith are meant to guide us on our journey through life.

Well formed consciences are different than just “following your own truth” like the world often tells us to do. A well formed conscience that is fully developed leads us to the real Truth, the Truth revealed to us by God and laid out in the teachings of the Church. Doctrines and Traditions are reconciled for us through scripture and cannot be changed. We were taught about the infallibility of the pope and what that really means, how idolizing the papacy is dangerous because the pope is human not divine, and to not be swayed into changing course when the world and Church are in turmoil. The Church has had some truly awful men become pope and it could happen again. If it does happen, we have been given the resources to ascertain what is and what cannot truly be Truth. Those resources are doctrine, Tradition, and infallible statements to help us navigate through confusion. Of course it would be helpful if clarification is asked for, we would receive it

 

[Emeraldlady]

We were taught about the infallibility of the pope and what that really means, how idolizing the papacy is dangerous because the pope is human not divine, and to not be swayed into changing course when the world and Church are in turmoil.

I’m finding that just too hard to believe unless you were being taught by the modern more progressive nuns who are iffy about submitting obediently to Papal authority. I grew up in a very conservative and traditional environment and can never remember being taught to follow my own conscience rather than follow the Pope. We come from very different worlds. I was taught that the Pope teaching in communion with the Bishops must be accepted as infallible in matters of faith and morals. What you are describing was taught to us as the Protestant church.

 

[Emeraldlady]

I attended catholic school from first grade to 12th grade, with the exception of grades 3 and 4. I went to public school those years.

The orders depended on the school (we moved a few times) but one of the orders was Sisters of Notre Dame (grades 5 and 6 and I think 7 as well) and in high school we had diocesan priests teach our religion classes. We were taught to develop our minds and to fully form our consciences because God intended for us to think for ourselves, not just follow along. Fully developed consciences that are well formed in the Truths of our faith are meant to guide us on our journey through life.

Well formed consciences are different than just “following your own truth” like the world often tells us to do. A well formed conscience that is fully developed leads us to the real Truth, the Truth revealed to us by God and laid out in the teachings of the Church. Doctrines and Traditions are reconciled for us through scripture and cannot be changed. We were taught about the infallibility of the pope and what that really means, how idolizing the papacy is dangerous because the pope is human not divine, and to not be swayed into changing course when the world and Church are in turmoil. The Church has had some truly awful men become pope and it could happen again. If it does happen, we have been given the resources to ascertain what is and what cannot truly be Truth. Those resources are doctrine, Tradition, and infallible statements to help us navigate through confusion. Of course it would be helpful if clarification is asked for, we would receive it

Could you cite documents to support rejection of papal authority by lay Catholics?

 

[13pollitos]

No, you are misinterpreting what I wrote.

 

[13pollitos]

Like I said, you are misinterpreting what I wrote. And it is getting hard to believe that it is not intentional.

 

[KMG]

Artificial contraception was always condemned by the Church. It wasn’t some novel idea of Paul VI in 1968. He merely affirmed perennial Catholic teaching.

The pope’s mission is to confirm the faithful in tradition.

Not to innovate.