New Catholic Cardinal: Catholics Can’t Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

[CMatt25]

“You can’t be Catholic and Pro Choice. Get it straight once and for all”,FatherJohnCorapi. Good questions all,but there area few faithful leaders in existence.

If Fr Corapi wants to “get it straight once and for all” he probably shouldn’t phrase his statement in such a manner. Because surely he knows when someone is baptized or received into the Catholic Church they are members of the Catholic Church.

1. It remains clear, in any event, that the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection.

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20060313_actus-formalis_en.html

So yes they can be pro choice and Catholic.

 

[rlg94086]

If Fr Corapi wants to “get it straight once and for all” he probably shouldn’t phrase his statement in such a manner. Because surely he knows when someone is baptized or received into the Catholic Church they are members of the Catholic Church.

1. It remains clear, in any event, that the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection.

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20060313_actus-formalis_en.html

So yes they can vote for pro choice candidates and be Catholic.

I thought we covered this semantic ground. Your point is meaningless. It is the same as saying that an unrepentant mass murderer or serial rapist is still Catholic. The baptismal state of an unrepentant mortal sinner is not going to save them from the fires of hell. They still have to repent and receive absolution.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

It’s technically possible to get a pro-choice candidate who is 100% incompetent and will run the country into the ground financially, militarily, etc. Being pro-life is not the only achievement a candidate must have. And there are several factors to take into when voting. The abortion issue is definitely weighed higher at the presidential level and senatorial level but in other offices not as much. I’m not going to just give my vote to someone because they are pro-life. They need to have talent, intelligence, constitutional comprehension, a prudent agenda to govern, and fit other qualifications I have. I put my career, my family’s best financial and social needs first, look at the widespread social and moral ramifications of the person, foreign policy, economics, views on lots of other issues, etc. into the mix. One-issue voting is not for me. I voted for six Republicans and six Democrats on our California ballot in my absentee ballot. My wife did as well. I’m fine with that…

If Fr Corapi wants to “get it straight once and for all” he probably shouldn’t phrase his statement in such a manner. Because surely he knows when someone is baptized or received into the Catholic Church they are members of the Catholic Church.

1. It remains clear, in any event, that the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection.

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20060313_actus-formalis_en.html

So yes they can be pro choice and Catholic.

 

[CMatt25]

I thought we covered this semantic ground. Your point is meaningless. It is the same as saying that an unrepentant mass murderer or serial rapist is still Catholic. The baptismal state of an unrepentant mortal sinner is not going to save them from the fires of hell. They still have to repent and receive absolution.

Yes I would have thought we had covered it enough too by now. It is not meaningless when people incorrectly say someone is not a Catholic. And only God knows the heart and only He will know it at the moment of death. Thus no one can judge who is in hell. Not me. Not Fr Corapi. Not you nor anyone else. But God. And may He bless you along your journey. Peace.

 

[Elizabeth502]

The most important thing about post 99 is the avatar.



Take Sunday’s game, Bumgardner.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I think we will. I knew we’d drop today’s game. I predicted it on here. Sanchez’s pitching has been ratty. He’s all nerves. Colby’s numbers were better going in period. Plus Texas has been getting creamed so hard that SF had to get a bit winded and tired. Sooner or later those Texas bats had to kick in. but honestly I’m still not impressed with them. Their bullpen blows. Their pitching is mediocre except for tonight, and the bats have been a bit quiet. I think we’ll win the Series. It will go to a sixth game IMO. I love Bumgarner too. He’s a studly kid. Cool, calm, lights-out, and killer to lefties. I like the Giants in six. If we can beat Atlanta and Philly, we can knock off these guys.

The most important thing about post 99 is the avatar.



Take Sunday’s game, Bumgardner.

 

[RobbyS]

If Fr Corapi wants to “get it straight once and for all” he probably shouldn’t phrase his statement in such a manner. Because surely he knows when someone is baptized or received into the Catholic Church they are members of the Catholic Church.

1. It remains clear, in any event, that the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection.

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20060313_actus-formalis_en.html

So yes they can be pro choice and Catholic.

But if you eye offends you, pluck it out. So said our Lord.And if one reads the New Testament, there are in many places harsh words for defectors.At one point Our Lord says: I do not know you, speaking of false Christians. I do agree that we do not know the hearts of many pro-choice people, and there is that concept, invincible ignorance. Plus Catholics have been so poorly taught and led by false prophets: the blind leading the blind.

 

[rlg94086]

Yes I would have thought we had covered it enough too by now. It is not meaningless when people incorrectly say someone is not a Catholic. And only God knows the heart and only He will know it at the moment of death. Thus no one can judge who is in hell. Not me. Not Fr Corapi. Not you nor anyone else. But God. And may He bless you along your journey. Peace.

I’ve never said you weren’t Catholic, and I’ve never judged your eternal destination. I’ve just clearly stated that the semantics make no difference to your eternal destination. A mortal sinner who exclaims “I am Catholic” does nothing to prevent his final damnation.

So, keep up your emphasis on being Catholic without actually following Church teaching at your own eternal risk. A Catholic can still choose hell by separating themself from God through sin.

 

[StTommyMore]

Since I’ve recieved no feedback on my thoughts ,maybe I need to put it more Clearly.Archbishop Burke stated it Clearly, Catholics must be Pro-Life, and also Pro-Family. I wrote the above letter to show what must be done to revive our Catholic Identity. We must Remove Evil ( pro-abortion catholics,pro-homosexuality advocates) From Roman Catholicism? I’m a faithful Catholic,and I’m going to HEAVEN!

You can hope for heaven, but this is not something you can have absolute assurance of.

 

[Tom_8_0_0]

If Fr Corapi wants to “get it straight once and for all” he probably shouldn’t phrase his statement in such a manner. Because surely he knows when someone is baptized or received into the Catholic Church they are members of the Catholic Church.

1. It remains clear, in any event, that the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection.

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20060313_actus-formalis_en.html

So yes they can be pro choice and Catholic.

When people refer to themselves as Catholic, I’d like to think they are referring to the fact that they are regularly receiving Penance and the Holy Eucharist, and are living a holy life. If someone is pro-abortion (I refuse to say pro-choice), they are supporting ongoing sin and are thus living in sin, and are thus not Catholic insofar as the purity of their soul, which is stained by their refusal to oppose abortion.

 

[dpcurran]

When people refer to themselves as Catholic, I’d like to think they are referring to the fact that they are regularly receiving Penance and the Holy Eucharist, and are living a holy life. If someone is pro-abortion (I refuse to say pro-choice), they are supporting ongoing sin and are thus living in sin, and are thus not Catholic insofar as the purity of their soul, which is stained by their refusal to oppose abortion.

If any person regardless of religious persuasion favors abortion and they have knowledge that God is the author of life, then by supplanting God and choosing to end a life they commit a serious offense against God. We Catholics sometimes don’t know how lucky we are to have the love of God, and the Son of God who became human like us and tried to show us how to live, gave us the sacraments for our use, and established Himself as a present and everlasting memorial which we witness each time we attend Mass. Yes abortion violates the tenth commandment. Only Almightly God gives life and ought to have the right to change life to a better one. Abortion deprives a person created by God, with the help of a man and a woman, and who begins to exist as God’s creation at the moment of conception. Dr. Denis P. Curran

 

[CMatt25]

But if you eye offends you, pluck it out. So said our Lord.And if one reads the New Testament, there are in many places harsh words for defectors.At one point Our Lord says: I do not know you, speaking of false Christians. I do agree that we do not know the hearts of many pro-choice people, and there is that concept, invincible ignorance. Plus Catholics have been so poorly taught and led by false prophets: the blind leading the blind.

We’re also told to cut our hands and feet off, how many of us sinners are walking around without hands and feet?

 

[estesbob]

It’s technically possible to get a pro-choice candidate who is 100% incompetent and will run the country into the ground financially, militarily, etc. Being pro-life is not the only achievement a candidate must have. And there are several factors to take into when voting. The abortion issue is definitely weighed higher at the presidential level and senatorial level but in other offices not as much. I’m not going to just give my vote to someone because they are pro-life. They need to have talent, intelligence, constitutional comprehension, a prudent agenda to govern, and fit other qualifications I have. I put my career, my family’s best financial and social needs first, look at the widespread social and moral ramifications of the person, foreign policy, economics, views on lots of other issues, etc. into the mix. One-issue voting is not for me. I voted for six Republicans and six Democrats on our California ballot in my absentee ballot. My wife did as well. I’m fine with that…

That is a very common misconception-that is that the Church is asking us to be one issue voters… The Church in no way shape or They do emphatically tell us, however, that we cannot vote for somebody who supports abortion. The only exception to this is where there is a race where both candidates are pro- abortion. You could vote for the candidate who was less pro-abortion than his opponent. I like the way the Archbishop Chaput put it phrased it when discussing this situation. It is a not or a matter of choosing between the lesser of two evils-it is a matter of choosing - is a matter of choosing the lessen evil.

In taking this stand the church is not endorsing a political party. Although I would personally not vote for a pro-life Democrat running against a pro-life Republican because of the way party politics work in the Congress, i.e. the Democrat will empower leaders who are adamantly pro-abortion, the Church does not have this stance. In the case where two candidates are both pro-life or are both equally pro-abortion the church says you can vote for either regardless of party affiliation.

 

[CMatt25]

I’ve never said you weren’t Catholic, and I’ve never judged your eternal destination. I’ve just clearly stated that the semantics make no difference to your eternal destination. A mortal sinner who exclaims “I am Catholic” does nothing to prevent his final damnation.

So, keep up your emphasis on being Catholic without actually following Church teaching at your own eternal risk. A Catholic can still choose hell by separating themself from God through sin.

You quoted Fr Corapi who said one can not be pro choice and Catholic. But whatever.

 

[estesbob]

I’ve never said you weren’t Catholic, and I’ve never judged your eternal destination. I’ve just clearly stated that the semantics make no difference to your eternal destination. A mortal sinner who exclaims “I am Catholic” does nothing to prevent his final damnation.

So, keep up your emphasis on being Catholic without actually following Church teaching at your own eternal risk. A Catholic can still choose hell by separating themself from God through sin.

Although probably the topic of another thread one wonders if a Catholic who rejects the Church is a greater risk than one who has not Catholic? The Church says that those who are outside the church can still be saved if their rejection as a result of i “nvincible ignorance”. One wonders how one who claims to be a member in good standing of the Catholic Church can claim invincible ignorance when rejecting core moral teachings.?

 

[StevenFrancis]

In my State, we have a senatorial race where if you stacked up the redeeming features of both candidates, you come up with a sum total of 1 redeeming feature for one of the candidates, and none for the other. The one redeeming feature that the two candidates have between them is that one of them is pro life. I will be voting for the pro-life candidate, and pray that that person wins, and we have another voice for life in the U.S. Senate. I have to say though, in all honesty, that apart from being pro life, I find this politician troubling in every other way. I do this only as an obedience to my faith and conscience.

I am coming to accept that being a faithful and obedient Catholic means that you no longer fit in United States society. It gets real lonely, real fast. I’m not complaining. I’m really not. I understand what I believe. I believe it is the truth. I have faith, and I love Christ and His Church above all else. I know that Jesus told us that the world would hate us, and that it hated Him first. I accept this as my life. A household will be divided 2 members against 3 etc… I get it now. But I can’t help but be a little disappointed to live in a state where our only two real choices for a U.S. Senator come down to the radical extremes of the left and right. There are a couple indie choices, but they’re also bundlers. Who take 1 or 2 Christian ideas, and mix them with a lot of very non-Christian ideas as well. Plus the indies won’t do anything but syphon votes from the pro-life candidate who has an honest chance at getting elected for once. I don’t know what I’m trying to say here. I guess I just wonder what we’ve come to. How did we get here? What can we do to change it? All we get to do is vote every couple years, and then our society feeds us a couple bad choices who we know in our hearts will both just be part of the whole increasingly toxic system when they actually get into office.

I guess I know the answer. We pray. Please don’t stop praying for better candidates to emerge. Pray for the office holders we have to see the light. To change the hearts of our leaders. To inspire them to want to do what’s right. To inspire voters to see through all the rediculous campaign ads and make good, well informed choices. For the parties to run good, moral ethical candidates to begin with, and for people to want them when they DO appear on the scene.

In my heart, I know the U.S. is capable of so much more. We can do so much better. We just need to want to. We need that intangible American spirit that we read about in the early years of our nation. A nation of people who really care about LIFE, and hold it sacred, above all else. Without having the right to live, then the rights of liberty and the pursuit of happiness are a bit moot.

God bless us, every one, on Tuesday, and inform our hearts. Help us make the best choice we can no, and help us learn how to give ourselves much better choices in the future.

May the saints and angels pray for us, now, and always,

Blessed Mother of Jesus, ever virgin,

Please pray for us

 

[rlg94086]

You quoted Fr Corapi who said one can not be pro choice and Catholic.

I did?

Anyway, Fr Corapi wasn’t remarking on one’s baptismal state. That’s why your game playing is correctly referred to as “semantic.”

 

[rlg94086]

Although probably the topic of another thread one wonders if a Catholic who rejects the Church is a greater risk than one who has not Catholic? The Church says that those who are outside the church can still be saved if their rejection as a result of i “nvincible ignorance”. One wonders how one who claims to be a member in good standing of the Catholic Church can claim invincible ignorance when rejecting core moral teachings.?

I agree. Someone who grew up non-Catholic with those views probably has a better shot at heaven than a “Catholic” who rejects Church teaching.

 

[Tom_8_0_0]

If any person regardless of religious persuasion favors abortion and they have knowledge that God is the author of life, then by supplanting God and choosing to end a life they commit a serious offense against God. We Catholics sometimes don’t know how lucky we are to have the love of God, and the Son of God who became human like us and tried to show us how to live, gave us the sacraments for our use, and established Himself as a present and everlasting memorial which we witness each time we attend Mass. Yes abortion violates the tenth commandment. Only Almightly God gives life and ought to have the right to change life to a better one. Abortion deprives a person created by God, with the help of a man and a woman, and who begins to exist as God’s creation at the moment of conception. Dr. Denis P. Curran

Agreed!

 

[jackangelo1]

I would like to discuss the bolded parts of your post. The terms Pro-Life, Pro-Choice, Pro-Abortion, Anti-abortion, Anti-Choice are all terms that are used interchangeably from those on both sides of the issue. I have no problem calling a person Pro-Abortion even if they describe themselves Pro-Choice because what is the choice that they advocate that each woman should have? The right to an abortion. I could say that Pro-Lifers are Pro-Choice because they believe that a woman should have the option to either keep the baby or give it up for adoption. That’s in favor of being pro-choice. However, it wouldn’t be a good idea for those who are against abortion as an option to call themselves pro choice because of the confusion that would ensue.

Regarding capital punishment, I am probably not the biggest fan of it because like what you said, errors can be made during a trial, and once a person is executed, its final. However, I don’t like it when other people (not you) misrepresent Catholic teachings on it. In Catholic teaching, capital punishment can (not always but some) be morally licit (permitted).

Finally I do have to take you to task about abortion being a religious issue. I am Catholic, but even if I was atheist, I would still be against abortion. Is murder of a person a religious belief? I am sure atheists are against murder, stealing etc.

PRO-ABORTION people,pro-homosexuality people think the same,looking for a way to Legalize ,or make it sound good? Pro-abortion,partial birth abortion,pro-choice abortion, deadly drug abortion,elective abortions,the death penalty ,are ALL Murder!,Plaine and simple?