New Morality Clause Ends One Teacher's Career at Fatima school in Louisiana

[Corki]

That’s a nice idea, but I’m not aware of any Catholic schools that require their teachers to be Catholic.

Some do. The school where my children first were had only Catholic teachers and only one non-Catholic on staff at all (in a non-teaching position). It was a requirement for thier accredidation that all the teachers be Catholic.

When we moved, the kids new school had one teacher who was Orthodox and all of the rest were Catholic (PK-8 school). They were very strict on thier morals clause too.

On to high school and I think there are 3 non-Catholic teachers and one or two non-Catholic staff members. The teachers are in subjects where religion is very unlikely to come up such as technology. As mentioned earlier, for older kids, it’s less confusing but also easier to monitor.

 

[kotim]

I get sickened when I see people try to say that homosexuals are not riskier than heterosexuals to kids. I t is a simple fact that homosexuals are statistically dozens of times more likely to abuse a child than a heterosexual is on the basis of a per capita of population.

In fact when I see people argue otherwise in the face of clear evidence available to all, I simply place them on my child sex offender risk.

Are all homosexuals child sex offenders, well of course not but the odds are relatively speaking, so high that anyone who lets their kids be in the care of homosexuals needs to be looked at as someone who may not warrant having possession of children

 

[Digitonomy]

Some do. The school where my children first were had only Catholic teachers and only one non-Catholic on staff at all (in a non-teaching position). It was a requirement for thier accredidation that all the teachers be Catholic.

Interesting. What was the accrediting organization?

 

[Corki]

Interesting. What was the accrediting organization?

Now, you are testing my memory. I am pretty sure it was NAPCIS, the National Association of Private Catholic and Independant Schools. One of thier requirements is that all facutly be practicing the Catholic faith.

 

[Digitonomy]

Now, you are testing my memory. I am pretty sure it was NAPCIS, the National Association of Private Catholic and Independant Schools. One of thier requirements is that all facutly be practicing the Catholic faith.

Here are the Accreditation Criteria for that group, exactly as you said.

I’m a little surprised, as my understanding had been that religious discrimination in hiring of teachers, and certainly staff, was not permitted unless they had a specific religious ministry, as discussed in the Tabor decision last year. I wonder if there are ways around that where even the janitors are required to rotate through certain duties at masses, etc.

 

[Corki]

Here are the Accreditation Criteria for that group, exactly as you said.

I’m a little surprised, as my understanding had been that religious discrimination in hiring of teachers, and certainly staff, was not permitted unless they had a specific religious ministry, as discussed in the Tabor decision last year. I wonder if there are ways around that where even the janitors are required to rotate through certain duties at masses, etc.

Religious schools have always used religion as a hiring criteria, even if it’s not strictly required, it is almost always a “preferred” qualification. In a Catholic school, where every teacher should at the very least be involved in leading the students in prayer, being a non-Catholic would be a serious handicap in the teachers abiltiy to do all of his/her job.

The Tabor case, if I remember correctly, was about the school defining who was considered a minister and covered under the clergy exemption.

 

[jwinch2]

catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=17511

The number of students enrolled in Catholic primary and secondary schools in the United States has fallen by 1.5% in the past year to 2,001,740, according to data released by the National Catholic Education Association.

More than 5.2 million students were enrolled in Catholic schools in the early 1960s, with 2,647,301 enrolled in 2000.

148 Catholic schools have closed or consolidated in the past year, while 28 have opened. There are now 6,685 Catholic schools, down from almost 13,000 in the early 1960s and 8,146 in 2000.

The average parish school tuition is now $3,673, while the average high school tuition for a freshman is $9,622.

75% of teachers in Catholic schools are laywomen, 22% are laymen, 2% are sisters, and 1% are priests, deacons, or brothers.

This is related to our topic at hand I fear. Many parents, particularly when economic times are tough (when aren’t they for most parents?), are not going to shell out the money to send their kids to Catholic schools when they do not see the benefit. One of those benefits has to be the knowledge that you are placing your child into an authentically Catholic environment that is going to nurture their souls and help them grow into faithful adults who are ready to take their place in society and live their Faith. If that isn’t happening, why in the world would any parent send their kid there?

 

[meltzerboy]

Some do. The school where my children first were had only Catholic teachers and only one non-Catholic on staff at all (in a non-teaching position). It was a requirement for thier accredidation that all the teachers be Catholic.

When we moved, the kids new school had one teacher who was Orthodox and all of the rest were Catholic (PK-8 school). They were very strict on thier morals clause too.

On to high school and I think there are 3 non-Catholic teachers and one or two non-Catholic staff members. The teachers are in subjects where religion is very unlikely to come up such as technology. As mentioned earlier, for older kids, it’s less confusing but also easier to monitor.

I believe this is most likely the case. However, aren’t there some Catholic schools in which there are non-Catholic STUDENTS, particularly Protestants, whose parents prefer to send their children to Catholic schools due to the perception of better discipline, stricter morality, and smaller classes? Maybe the topic of a different thread, but I wonder how this situation works in terms of prayer and instruction.

 

[kwitz]

I believe this is most likely the case. However, aren’t there some Catholic schools in which there are non-Catholic STUDENTS, particularly Protestants, whose parents prefer to send their children to Catholic schools due to the perception of better discipline, stricter morality, and smaller classes? Maybe the topic of a different thread, but I wonder how this situation works in terms of prayer and instruction.

At the catholic high school where I teach, non-Catholic students are expected to take the same four years of theology, attend all of our services (Mass, reconciliation, etc) and participate on retreats. I know of several of these students who get straight A’s in their theology classes because they can explain Catholicism better than their Catholic counterpoints.

Kris

 

[meltzerboy]

At the catholic high school where I teach, non-Catholic students are expected to take the same four years of theology, attend all of our services (Mass, reconciliation, etc) and participate on retreats. I know of several of these students who get straight A’s in their theology classes because they can explain Catholicism better than their Catholic counterpoints.

Kris

That’s interesting, and I suppose the parents are all right with their children attending Catholic services. Thanks for the information.

 

[Corki]

I believe this is most likely the case. However, aren’t there some Catholic schools in which there are non-Catholic STUDENTS, particularly Protestants, whose parents prefer to send their children to Catholic schools due to the perception of better discipline, stricter morality, and smaller classes? Maybe the topic of a different thread, but I wonder how this situation works in terms of prayer and instruction.

At the schools my kids have attended, there have been Protestant, Jewish and Muslim students as well as atheists. They have the same expectations as any other student with regard to religion class (theology in high school), Mass attendance, daily prayer and activities such as retreats and service projects.

A good example is Mass day. A non-Catholic wouldn’t be expected to make the responses but is expected to stand, sit and kneel at the right times and maintain a respectful demeanor at Mass. (Same for any non-Catholic teachers).

 

[Lucky7]

My child had a teacher in 3rd grade who was not even Catholic at a Catholic school! So I thought, hum . . .maybe my kid made a mistake . . . but sure enough, the teacher told the children that she “use to be Lutheran and then became Methodist.” My kid asked, “So when did you become Catholic?” The teacher said they were “basically the same” and my daughter said, “Oh no they are not! Why do you think we come to a Catholic school instead of a Methodist school?” She got sent to the principal and I was called. Of course, I took the side of my child. Non-Catholics should not be teaching religion in Catholic schools and that includes members of other faith traditions as well as those who show by their lifestyle that they are not living in accord with the Faith.

Wait, so your child spoke the truth and she got in trouble? What about the teacher for saying the two faiths are “basically the same”?

This is the sort of stuff that, as Peter Griffin would say, grinds my gears. Leaders in our church, whether in schools or parishes or dioceses make it seem like all religions are “basically the same”. Why would anyone feel like they need to be Catholic?

The confusion in our Church continues…stay tuned.

 

[fix]

Only if blinded by prejudice.

Common sense is now prejudice ?

 

[Tigg]

However, activities such as being a pedophile, viewing child porn, or using crack cocaine may pose a danger to the children she is teaching, whereas same-sex relations with an adult most likely would not unless she talks about her sex life in class.

If I were this teacher, I would find it a bit hypocritical of myself to know and identify my being with a certain lifestyle while simultaneously realizing it is morally contrary to the reason parents send their kids to Catholic school.

 

[Tigg]

StaTeresita;10580591:

So, you would only ask her to leave her “homosexual mindset” at home? I would be very curious as to how many active homosexuals would not be offended (and even outraged) by this…

Living a homosexual lifestyle does not advocate for the moral values that we want to instill in our children in our Catholic schools.

The point I’m making is that she is not necessarily instilling homosexual moral values in her students so long as she does not discuss the topic of homosexuality with them and advocate in favor of it.

There are certain subtle characteristics that necessarily manifest themselves when gay - some visible, some aren’t, but discernable, nonetheless. How does one separate their identity and personal choice from who they are just because they happen to be at work?

 

[meltzerboy]

There are certain subtle characteristics that necessarily manifest themselves when gay - some visible, some aren’t, but discernable, nonetheless. How does one separate their identity and personal choice from who they are just because they happen to be at work?

Therefore, do you believe that one has to be 100% in sync with the beliefs of the Catholic Church in order to be a teacher in a Catholic school? Perhaps you do. My feeling though is that a teacher is not a priest, and even the latter commits sins and may have doubts about specific issues of Catholic teaching from time to time.

You also mention “subtle characteristics.” What would those be? I understand what you are saying about a certain degree of hypocrisy, however. When I taught in a Jewish yeshiva (for Orthodox Jews), I felt a little hypocritical sometimes eating non-kosher food for lunch (I am a Reform Jew). Still, this behavior did not, to my knowledge, influence the content or method of my teaching since I was conscious and respectful of Orthodox Jewish beliefs and practices.

 

[Lucky7]

Therefore, do you believe that one has to be 100% in sync with the beliefs of the Catholic Church in order to be a teacher in a Catholic school? Perhaps you do. My feeling though is that a teacher is not a priest, and even the latter commits sins and may have doubts about specific issues of Catholic teaching from time to time.

Doubts are different than dissent and living in obstinate, manifest grave sin.

 

[fix]

Doubts are different than dissent and living in obstinate, manifest grave sin.

Amen.

 

[Tigg]

Therefore, do you believe that one has to be 100% in sync with the beliefs of the Catholic Church in order to be a teacher in a Catholic school? Perhaps you do. My feeling though is that a teacher is not a priest, and even the latter commits sins and may have doubts about specific issues of Catholic teaching from time to time.

Doubts are not the same as a self-proclaimed “identity.”

You also mention “subtle characteristics.” What would those be?

Tendencies, reactions, behavior and personality traits. We recently had a discussion at our parish – a spin-off from an adult ed class. Parents were alarmed at the exposure their kids might have because of the gay crowd. Their question of course was, how can our kids learn to draw the fine line and be charitable to the friends who are displaying homosexual tendencies, yet firmly reject any sexual suggestions. A mother related how she was clueless to the fact that her son’s cousin was gay, yet her son instantly recognized it. I think of the teachers I had in school who unwittingly influenced me a great deal – most often in a positive manner. Art class or not, the teacher is the figure head and one who can impact on a psychological level.

 

[meltzerboy]

Doubts are not the same as a self-proclaimed “identity.”

Tendencies, reactions, behavior and personality traits. We recently had a discussion at our parish – a spin-off from an adult ed class. Parents were alarmed at the exposure their kids might have because of the gay crowd. Their question of course was, how can our kids learn to draw the fine line and be charitable to the friends who are displaying homosexual tendencies, yet firmly reject any sexual suggestions. A mother related how she was clueless to the fact that her son’s cousin was gay, yet her son instantly recognized it. I think of the teachers I had in school who unwittingly influenced me a great deal – most often in a positive manner. Art class or not, the teacher is the figure head and one who can impact on a psychological level.

Thanks for the clarification. Regarding the “self-proclaimed ‘identity’ ,” I’ve read other threads in which gays are criticized for this since being homosexual does not define who one is. So what if this person does not think of himself in terms of his sexual orientation and behavior but instead considers this only one feature of his total being. When he teaches, he is doing his job as a teacher, not there to indoctrinate his students into accepting his lifestyle. Why should he be faulted for this?

Of course, teachers bring their whole personality to their students, a personality which undoubtedly includes many more features than their sexual “identity.” Some of those other features may also not be in accord with Catholic beliefs. And I’m sure that some of the teachers who influenced you in a positive manner were gay and you just didn’t recognize it because they didn’t behave in a stereotypical gay manner and weren’t there to promote their lifestyle. They were “merely” great teachers.