New SOLT Statement re: Father Corapi

[mom4mary]

The head of a monastery is frequently called an abbot, which comes from the word abba, which means father.

I understand this, Lucy. In using the term “parent”, based on the analogy I have seen used several times in many posts here (and I have read the entire thread), I am referring to personal culpability for one’s own actions here as a mature adult vis-a-vis as a child who cannot be held accountable for their actions. Certainly, it is unrealistic to think, at least to me, that a religious superior should literally hover over each of his priests/brothers every move like a parent does a child. There must exist some level of trust that the person is going to execute his priestly ministry in a faithful way, as he vowed and promised he would. There is a difference between adults and children in their intellect and ability to be held accountable for their decisions. Surely, and adult man who has completed his priestly formation and is ordained should be able to be trusted to keep his word regarding his vows/promises.

I’m sorry, but Fr. Corapi is an adult, and at least at the time of his ordination, was judged to be cognitively capable of making sound decisions. He is primarily the one responsible for breaking HIS vows. His order is not responsible for HIS decision to disobey and persist in disobedience.

 

[chuey55]

I don’t understand why people are saying we have been deceived by Father Corapi because he is so called “guilty” of these accusations. Regardless of whether he did it or not, what he preached was straight from the catechism. He had his opinions of course but he never made up his own teachings like some people are trying to say. I just don’t get it. I as a father(shepherd of my home) try to preach/lead my family(wife-4 kids) the best way I can concerning faith and morals using the catechism/scripture according to Church teaching. I struggle and sometimes commit mortal sins against my family. Does this mean that everything I taught them before is wrong?!? Am I now a deceiver?!? No, I am a sinner who picks my butt up and runs to confession to ask God for help in overcoming these struggles. Sometimes I’ll go months without reverting back to these same mortal sins. I often fall again due to spiritual weakness from failing to ask for God’s help. Should I stop leading my family in the right path because I struggle with sins myself?!? I know once I go down, my whole family is sure to follow. This reminds me of the Protestant who says, well, if your priest are commiting sins like child molestation, then that PROVES the Catholic Church is NOT the Church founded by Jesus Christ. I forgive Father Corapi if he is indeed guilty and I will continue to hear him preach if he ever gets that opportunity again. He has alot of guts and proves that the Holy Spirit is not a cowardly one. Our worst enemies are the ones within the Church. Where is the thread with 50+ pages of prayers offered up for Father Corapi and his accusers?!? All all find are Prideful threads with brothers and sisters who fail to understand the TRUE meaning of Forgiveness.
Mother, please pray that Father Corapi will receive the graces needed to overcome this trial and that he may humble himself to receive and seek forgiveness. We ask this through Christ our Lord, Amen.

 

[valient_Lucy]

I understand this, Lucy. In using the term “parent”, based on the analogy I have seen used several times in many posts here (and I have read the entire thread), I am referring to personal culpability for one’s own actions here as a mature adult vis-a-vis as a child who cannot be held accountable for their actions. Certainly, it is unrealistic to think, at least to me, that a religious superior should literally hover over each of his priests/brothers every move like a parent does a child. There must exist some level of trust that the person is going to execute his priestly ministry in a faithful way, as he vowed and promised he would. There is a difference between adults and children in their intellect and ability to be held accountable for their decisions. Surely, and adult man who has completed his priestly formation and is ordained should be able to be trusted to keep his word regarding his vows/promises.

I’m sorry, but Fr. Corapi is an adult, and at least at the time of his ordination, was judged to be cognitively capable of making sound decisions. He is primarily the one responsible for breaking HIS vows. His order is not responsible for HIS decision to disobey and persist in disobedience.

Ok. I thought you were saying that Fr. Corapi doesn’t have to obey his superiors because he’s an adult.

Obviously he should be held responsible for his actions, I hope that goes without saying.

 

[valient_Lucy]

I don’t understand why people are saying we have been deceived by Father Corapi because he is so called “guilty” of these accusations. Regardless of whether he did it or not, what he preached was straight from the catechism. He had his opinions of course but he never made up his own teachings like some people are trying to say. I just don’t get it. I as a father(shepherd of my home) try to preach/lead my family(wife-4 kids) the best way I can concerning faith and morals using the catechism/scripture according to Church teaching. I struggle and sometimes commit mortal sins against my family. Does this mean that everything I taught them before is wrong?!? Am I now a deceiver?!? No, I am a sinner who picks my butt up and runs to confession to ask God for help in overcoming these struggles. Sometimes I’ll go months without reverting back to these same mortal sins. I often fall again due to spiritual weakness from failing to ask for God’s help. Should I stop leading my family in the right path because I struggle with sins myself?!? I know once I go down, my whole family is sure to follow. This reminds me of the Protestant who says, well, if your priest are commiting sins like child molestation, then that PROVES the Catholic Church is NOT the Church founded by Jesus Christ. I forgive Father Corapi if he is indeed guilty and I will continue to hear him preach if he ever gets that opportunity again. He has alot of guts and proves that the Holy Spirit is not a cowardly one. Our worst enemies are the ones within the Church. Where is the thread with 50+ pages of prayers offered up for Father Corapi and his accusers?!? All all find are Prideful threads with brothers and sisters who fail to understand the TRUE meaning of Forgiveness.
Mother, please pray that Father Corapi will receive the graces needed to overcome this trial and that he may humble himself to receive and seek forgiveness. We ask this through Christ our Lord, Amen.

I think, when people say they feel deceived, they are saying that they believed him to be someone that he was not. It’s not about what he said; it’s about they type of person he is.

 

[Robertanthony]

I think, when people say they feel deceived, they are saying that they believed him to be someone that he was not. It’s not about what he said; it’s about they type of person he is.

Bingo. I’m no expert, but I don’t hink he ever taught doctrinal errors, theologically speaking, he was an orthodox speaker.

 

[mom4mary]

Here is a very good article on this topic by Deacon Greg Kandra a.k.a. “The Deacon’s Bench”:

patheos.com/community/deaconsbench/2011/07/08/the-corapi-case-what-was-said-and-what-wasnt/

 

[vz71]

The level of support on both of his FB pages is astounding to me.

And the level of open animosity to anyone that is not firmly in support of Corapi.

I’m not talking negativity to detractors, I am seeing absolute hatred at even the nuetral.

Corapi’s fruit.

 

[JReducation]

. Now, this morning, you have the same people arguing with others who have posted saying things like “does Father really need a Church to minister to you?” or “we just have to trust Father no matter what the Church says”…

The problem with this is that it’s the same thing that happened with Archbishop Lefebvre and Father Martin Luther and a few others. Those stories are still haunting us to this day. Do people really want to go there?

I’m actually getting to the point where I think Rome may have to get involved in some way. Things seem to be spiraling out of control and there are thousands of souls at stake.

The Holy See only gets involved if the issue is catastrophic. This is not the case here. As far as moral theology and moral theologians are concerned, there are no more souls at risk here than there would be if the local witch doctor setup shop next door. Father always taught what the Church believes. Therefore, what he tuaght has not stopped being true. As far as following him out of the Church, that’s a choice that people make on their own. Father does not make that choice for them. Those who leave the Church because they’re disappointed by Father are also making a choice on their own. Moral theology looks a these things very coldly. The question on the table is whether the souls are going to be lost because the Church is not teaching truth or because people are making poor choices, despite the Church’s teaching. If the reason is the latter, there is nothing for the Vatican to do here. Besides, that’s why each diocese constitutes an independent Church, so that the local bishop can deal with this. These are clled local Churches.

Bro. JR,

As always, thank you. Giving us the facts on how religious life works, is governed etc etc has been invaluable to many of us in understanding this and keeping the right perspective.

Esp those of us who, being American, tend to try and put an over-lay of American justice and “rights” over everything. We tend to forget, that is not the case in so many things

You’re welcome. I lived through the years of Post Vatican II reform of religious life. There were many communities that got it right. There were many who got it wrong. Almost 95% of those that got it wrong, were American. The problem was that they tried to incorporate the American concept of self-determination, constitutional rights, freedom of speech, choice, and freedom from government into religious life. The result was horrible. We had religious communities where people did what they wanted, lived where they wnated, worked where they wanted and came and went as they pleased. The superior was simply the financial manager. Some were no longer superiors. Now they were presidents or coordinators. By 1980, it became very clear to religious communities that this was not what the Dessert Fathers had in mind when they founded religious life. That’s how new religious communities came into existence and older ones began the process of return to the roots. Those communities that stayed the course of employing some form of “federal government” in religious life have lost their identities.

One thought about obedience. I think people bring this up because, quite frankly, the (apparent) disobedience is far more upsetting to us than the allegations of sexual impropriety or drug abuse, if that makes any sense.

Of course it makes sense. We expect our priests, brothers and sisters to be obedient. We must also remember that human beings are stained by Original Sin. Even after Baptism, the sin is washed away, but the human condition remains. Submission is painful. Obedience is the hardest of the Evangelical Counsels.

Thank you Brother. Would you mind if I were to share your thoughts on this?

Peace,

As long as you share my first paragraph, it’s OK. My greatest concern in any such case is the perfection of charity. We must never forget that the other person is human. He has feelings, strengths and weaknesses just like the rest of us. The erros may be different, but they are still errors. None of us can say “I will never do such a thing.” We can say, “I have never done such a thing” or “I don’t know if I could do such a thing.” The good thing here is that our sins are a single drop in the ocean of God’s infinite mercy which is for the taking, if we simply ask for it. We can ask for it for us and for others. But we must also be merciful as God is merciful. If we become too intellectual about how we deal is an alleged sinner, we become cold and defensive. Siuddenly, we’re hyper vigilant, watching out for any sign of sin or error. God does not want us to live in a constant state of anxiety. St. Peter tells us to be awake and alert. He does not tell us to be paranoid. He’s referring to watching over our choices and our temptations. We can and should help each other, but we cannot and shouldnot make the other person’s choices so important that we are unable to be merciful.

 

[JReducation]

Brother,

I just want to focus on this bit of your post, but first let me say that the entire thing was very useful and I think I join others when I say that we value your expertise in these matters.

I also think that your point is broader than what I am focusing on – as you are focusing on the virtue of obedience qua obedience. But, you did bring up this idea, in passing, of a concern about the superior as a sinner, or wrong.

I think that the reason 20th century catholics often voice these concerns is simply due to the weight of recent history. And to put it in one word: Nuremberg. The defense of the guilty that they had orders to commit crimes reverberates through the 20th century conscience. It makes us suspicious. . . of orders, laws, decrees that might be commanding evil. Now, you didn’t mention an immoral order, only a wrong one or one that came from a sinner (it is a huge distinction!) but I think the reason that there is concern about lawful authority being wrong or a sinner is because of the underlying trepidation of being ordered to do something not just imprudent but rather immoral. Anyone who has been in a position where commanded by lawful authority (boss, officer, priest, etc) to do something immoral can tell you how great a struggle of conscience ensues between one’s duty and one’s moral sense.

This is why I always tell 21st century Catholics that if they want to understand obedience, go to the master. Read the Rule of St. Benedict. All religious orders, religious congregations, societies of apostolic life and secular orders take their understanding of obedience from Benedict. They may write rules that are different from Benedict. For example, my community does not have a rule about hospitality and Benedict does. But when it comes to obedience everyone uses him as the reference point.

Benedict makes it very clear that authority may never command what is sinful. Augustine comes along and adds that authority must be loved, not just obeyed… Francis of Assisi added that authority can be in error, foolist and even mean, but it must be obeyed with love. The question one must ask when commanded to obey is whether something is a sin or not. Benedict, Augustine and Francis already made it clear that the superior can be a fool and totally wrong. However, being a fool or being wrong does not disqualify one from being a spiritual leader. If that were the case, none of the Apostles would have been hired.

Religious authority is not based on logic. It is based on the Gospel. God usually chooses the unfit to govern: Abraham, Moses, David and Peter. Good grief! If we were having a election none of them would have been elected.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[joanofarc2008]

My greatest concern in any such case is the perfection of charity. We must never forget that the other person is human. He has feelings, strengths and weaknesses just like the rest of us. The erros may be different, but they are still errors. None of us can say “I will never do such a thing.” We can say, “I have never done such a thing” or “I don’t know if I could do such a thing.” The good thing here is that our sins are a single drop in the ocean of God’s infinite mercy which is for the taking, if we simply ask for it. We can ask for it for us and for others. But we must also be merciful as God is merciful. If we become too intellectual about how we deal is an alleged sinner, we become cold and defensive. Siuddenly, we’re hyper vigilant, watching out for any sign of sin or error. God does not want us to live in a constant state of anxiety. St. Peter tells us to be awake and alert. He does not tell us to be paranoid. He’s referring to watching over our choices and our temptations. We can and should help each other, but we cannot and shouldnot make the other person’s choices so important that we are unable to be merciful.

Actually Brother if you would not mind I would like to quote you on the aobve on a wonderful group named Catholics ARE Christians on facebook. Not necessarily in reference to anything but as a stand alone quote. This is absolutely beautiful.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I don’t understand why people are saying we have been deceived by Father Corapi because he is so called “guilty” of these accusations. Regardless of whether he did it or not, what he preached was straight from the catechism.

But do you not see the harm when one preaches one thing but then lives another?

He had his opinions of course but he never made up his own teachings like some people are trying to say.

Yes he may have had his own opinions and lifestyle but the teachings he taught before this came up where what the Church Teaches. Now he has gone off on his own and seems to be, if not teaching, at least leading away from the Church.

Even if he gets his wish and is laicized he will never be allowed to preach or teach again. That is if he states a faithful Catholic. As part of the process of laicizition for a priest is that they are never allowed to act in a ministerial function (even as a lector or EMHC) nor are they allowed to teach. Now if he decides to do so in opposition to the Church then he will have separated himself from the Church to do his own thing and faithful Catholics should not follow him.

 

[valient_Lucy]

And the level of open animosity to anyone that is not firmly in support of Corapi.

I’m not talking negativity to detractors, I am seeing absolute hatred at even the nuetral.

Corapi’s fruit.

The harvest is starting to smell pretty rancid.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Of course it makes sense. We expect our priests, brothers and sisters to be obedient. We must also remember that human beings are stained by Original Sin. Even after Baptism, the sin is washed away, but the human condition remains. Submission is painful. Obedience is the hardest of the Evangelical Counsels.

I’m glad it makes sense to you. You’re right, obedience is incredibly difficult, and I don’t know what I would do in his situation. I still think he’s making the wrong decision though, and I hope he changes his mind.

 

[brumano]

@brumano
I admire your resolved. I’m sure Bl. Pope JPII did not say to him, do anything you want to do.

Thanks and I agree with you I’m very sure the Pope did not tell him to go do anything you want to do, he told him to do what he told him to do under the same established guidelines and limitations under which anyone in the hierarchy tells anyone else in the hierarchy to do anything, and that is the overarching rule of obedience to the Faith and Morals of The Roman Cathoilc Church.

 

[valient_Lucy]

This is why I always tell 21st century Catholics that if they want to understand obedience, go to the master. Read the Rule of St. Benedict. All religious orders, religious congregations, societies of apostolic life and secular orders take their understanding of obedience from Benedict. They may write rules that are different from Benedict. For example, my community does not have a rule about hospitality and Benedict does. But when it comes to obedience everyone uses him as the reference point.

Benedict makes it very clear that authority may never command what is sinful. Augustine comes along and adds that authority must be loved, not just obeyed… Francis of Assisi added that authority can be in error, foolist and even mean, but it must be obeyed with love. The question one must ask when commanded to obey is whether something is a sin or not. Benedict, Augustine and Francis already made it clear that the superior can be a fool and totally wrong. However, being a fool or being wrong does not disqualify one from being a spiritual leader. If that were the case, none of the Apostles would have been hired.

Religious authority is not based on logic. It is based on the Gospel. God usually chooses the unfit to govern: Abraham, Moses, David and Peter. Good grief! If we were having a election none of them would have been elected.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Once again, great post.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Thanks and I agree with you I’m very sure the Pope did not tell him to go do anything you want to do, he told him to do what he told him to do under the same established guidelines and limitations under which anyone in the hierarchy tells anyone else in the hierarchy to do anything, and that is the overarching rule of obedience to the Faith and Morals of The Roman Cathoilc Church.

He didn’t just have to show obedience regarding faith and morals; religious obedience goes beyond faith and morals. Check out JREducation’s posts on the subject. They’re very informative.

 

[chuey55]

I think, when people say they feel deceived, they are saying that they believed him to be someone that he was not. It’s not about what he said; it’s about they type of person he is.

“type of person he is” - do you mean a sinner? We’re all going to need a large pedestal to stand on…

 

[onenow1]

A PRAYER FOR ALL PRIESTS

KEEP THEM, I PRAY, THEE LORD, KEEP THEM, FOR THEY , ARE THINE–

THY PRIESTS WHOSE LIVES BURN OUT BEFORE THEYCONSECRATED SHRINE.

kEEP THEM FOR THEY ARE IN THE WORLD, THOUGH FROM THE WORLD APART;

WHEN EARTHLY PLEASURES TEMPT, ALLURE,

SHELTER THEM IN THY HEART.

KEEP THEM, AND COMFORT THEM IN HOURS OF LONELINESS AND PAIN,

WHEN ALL THERE LIFE OF SACREFICE FOR SOULS SEEMS BUT IN VAIN.

KEEP THEM AND O REMEMBER LORD, THEY HAVE NO ONE BUT THEE,

YET THEY HAVE ONLY HUMAN HEARTS, WITH HUMAN FRAILTY.

KEEP THEM SPOTLESS AS THE HOST,THAT DAILY THEY CARESS;

THERE EVERY THOUGHT AND WORD AND DEED,DEIGN DEAREST LORD, TO BLESS.

FROM: PIETA PRAYER BOOKLET.
IMPRIMATUR: CARDINAL DOUGHERTY,ARCHBISHOP OF PHILIADELPHIA

SAY 1 OUR FATHER HAIL MARY,QUEEN OF CLERGY PRAY FOR THEM.

“This has been devestating, to all take time out and pray.”

God Bless

 

[mom4mary]

“type of person he is” - do you mean a sinner? We’re all going to need a large pedestal to stand on…

I did not take Lucy’s comment to mean that. I think many people - including me - looked up to Fr. Corapi as a true spiritual mentor and we are left feeling very, very shell shocked to find out what has been going on. It isn’t about being a sinner. I think most of us here understand that we are all sinners. However, even Fr. Corapi himself acknowledged that priests and religious are held to a higher standard, and rightly so, given their position in the Church. It is only right and natural to feel a sense of betrayal and bewilderment when such shocking revelations are made. I think as time goes on, we will all move on from feeling anger to just feeling sorry for him and hoping and praying for the best where this situation is concerned.

 

[dfp42]

Yes he may have had his own opinions and lifestyle but the teachings he taught before this came up where what the Church Teaches. Now he has gone off on his own and seems to be, if not teaching, at least leading away from the Church.

Even if he gets his wish and is laicized he will never be allowed to preach or teach again. That is if he states a faithful Catholic. As part of the process of laicizition for a priest is that they are never allowed to act in a ministerial function (even as a lector or EMHC) nor are they allowed to teach. Now if he decides to do so in opposition to the Church then he will have separated himself from the Church to do his own thing and faithful Catholics should not follow him.

I do have a question about this though. Has he already walked away from his vows or promise he made with SOLT as a priest in good standing? It seems that SOLT has already warned faithful Catholics that from this point forward they are not to follow Corapi. Does that mean he’s been excommunicated automatically by virtue of his act? In other words, when SOLT issued the warning that he isn’t fit to minister as a priest, does that mean us lay people are not to follow him because he is outside the Church etc. Am I sinning if I were to continue following him since SOLT said this? I heard a priest called Fr. Bob on his blog stated that any Catholic who buys any of his materials from his website is participating in his sin and are sinning themselves. It’s this kinda confusion that is really making my head spin. Can you please explain this to me.
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