New SSPX Rosary Crusade

[pnewton]

Interpretation of a private revelation is not comparable to gay marriage or sedevacantism. This analogy would only fit if their intention were heretical, which it is not.

What you said was:

…“but really, attacking them for praying the rosary ”

Do you understand that no one has done? It is not the praying of the rosary, but rather the reason? Their reason is not heretical, but it can be construed as calling John Paul II a liar. That too is not a very good thing.

 

[LilyM]

…:coffeeread:

Not to mention causing enormous pain to our Russian and other Orthodox brothers, with whom Rome has been working very hard to try and achieve communion.

Imagine for one second that I started a campaign to offer Rosaries for the conversion of members of the SSPX

How would that make them feel? Do you think there would be no ulterior agenda behind such a campaign, even if I cloaked it in platitudes such as 'well, we’re ALL sinners in need of conversion, so what harm … '?

Would I not be pointing a very big unflattering finger in the direction of the SSPX by offering my rosaries for them in particular ‘not that they’re in any particular need of conversion or anything …’

 

[I_Believe]

Good point. I will offer a rosary for an end to abortion and return of morality to America.

There you go. A very worthy intention.

12 million wouldn’t hurt

 

[LilyM]

There you go. A very worthy intention.

12 million wouldn’t hurt

How many babies have been aborted in the US since Roe v Wade? I thought it was somewhere between 40 and 50 million? Why not be ambitious and aim for that many Rosaries.

 

[UnusMilitum]

Did our Blessed Lady give a set form of words - a set text - to Sr Lucia that MUST be used in order for the consecration to be validly done?

Did our Blessed Lady mention a specific country? If so, why did the consecration not mention any specific country?

If Mary appeared to you and asked you to pray one rosary for the conversion of your protestant friend Jenny, would you not mention “For the conversion of Jenny” as your rosary intention, or would you simply say “For the conversion of all protestants”? Seriously, If Mother Mary came to me and asked something of me I’d do what I’m told like an obedient son…Something about the 4th commandment. If she wants me to pray one single solitary rosary for Jenny, I’ll pray for Jenny. I can always pray other rosaries for the conversion of all protestants at a different time, but I’ll definitely single Jenny out in my intentions.

Did Our Lady state that the Orthodox would ever cease to be Orthodox?

Well, I’m no Fatima scholar (I’ll probably say that a lot here), but IMHO they don’t need to cease to be Orthodox as long as they cease to be schismatic. I mean, there are other orthodox groups in communion with Rome.

Did she state that the conversion of Russia (assuming she meant Russia would become Catholic) was going to happen within a set timeframe - within ten, fifty, a hundred or a thousand years of the consecration occuring, for example?

LOL

Let us not presume to expect God to work to whatever timetable you’ve planned for Him

I’d accept an apology right about now if you’re willing to give one for this comment.

And even more let us not presume to take any alleged failure of quick results (although I’d say the fall of Communism is hardly insignificant if one IS looking for results) to mean that the consecration has not occurred.

I’m sorry, did I miss something (such as communism falling)??? So communism is dead then, or is it more like, “I’ve fallen and I can’t get up but I can still beat on you with my cane and make you fall as well”? Are you saying that Russia has ceased spreading her error throughout the world?

Might I point out that America has been consecrated to her Immaculate Conception twice in the last fifty years - the consecrations did NOT result in a mass conversion of all Americans to Catholicism.

Wait, America has been consecrated twice, but we can’t even mention “Russia” in the consecration asked for by Mary?

 

[UnusMilitum]

Sister Lucy always insisted that the Consecration of the World (not Russia) to the Immaculate Heart by John Paul II did not fulfill our Lady’s request. Then, out of nowhere, she supposedly reversed all that she ever said on the subject and claim that it did fulfill this request.

Wow, that’s weird. Do you have a reference for that? Thanks.

 

[UnusMilitum]

It’s more fun to believe gloom, doom, and rumors of boom, isn’t it?

Of course not, but it’s always important to continue to search for the truth. In history and science experts are constantly coming up with new and contrary conclusions because they continue to question. Is not the business of this consecration a matter of history?

Communism was cooked up by a German Jew living in England.

It’s not a “Russian” error.

But in a very real way, it is indeed.

 

[I_Believe]

We are so missing the point here.

Any Rosary prayed for souls or the good of the Church is not wasted. Even if one were to pray with an intention born of ignorance, sincere intent itself would deliver Our Lady her bouquet. A prayer for the fulfillment of Our Lady’s request is a prayer for peace. Even if the request has been fulfilled, would it not please Our Lady to know these Rosaries are offered by those who love Holy Mother Church enough to offer them ?

Again, even if those with devotion to Fatima are mistaken, this crusade remains a prayer for peace. Not a single Ave will be in vain.

So please, to the naysayers I must ask

-Do you think these Rosaries prayed will build Faith in those who pray them ? Yes or No ?

-Do you have any doubt they will please Our Lady ? Yes or No ?

Looking forward to your honest answers

 

[LilyM]

If Mary appeared to you and asked you to pray one rosary for the conversion of your protestant friend Jenny, would you not mention “For the conversion of Jenny” as your rosary intention, or would you simply say “For the conversion of all protestants”? Seriously, If Mother Mary came to me and asked something of me I’d do what I’m told like an obedient son…Something about the 4th commandment. If she wants me to pray one single solitary rosary for Jenny, I’ll pray for Jenny. I can always pray other rosaries for the conversion of all protestants at a different time, but I’ll definitely single Jenny out in my intentions.

Firstly Mary didn’t appear to the Pope - in fact he was not bound to take any action whatsoever in regard to her requests. So no disobedience from him for not mentioning Russia specifically.

Secondly - I’m not a mother but I am an aunt - and I would not be the slightest bit upset if I asked my niece to pray for one person and she had the happy and pleasing (to me) thought of praying for others who also needed her prayers at the same time.

I certainly wouldn’t consider her as lacking in obedience if she didn’t mention the one person by name but prayed for them nonetheles. Big deal - it’s not like God’s going to purposely ignore the one person because they weren’t named specifically or anything.

Put it this way - Our Lady asked for a single rose, the Holy Father gave her a whole magnificent bouquet - with the rose she asked for featured in the centre. It’d be a pretty cold mother who’d be unhappy with that.

I’d accept an apology right about now if you’re willing to give one for this comment.

Why? Was it untrue? Do you deny saying in essence that because you think the promised conversion hasn’t happened in 25 years, that the consecration wasn’t effective? Aren’t you in effect setting a timetable for God?

I’m sorry, did I miss something (such as communism falling)??? So communism is dead then, or is it more like, “I’ve fallen and I can’t get up but I can still beat on you with my cane and make you fall as well”? Are you saying that Russia has ceased spreading her error throughout the world?

Are you saying that Our Lady promised that it would cease within 25 years of the consecration being done?

Wait, America has been consecrated twice, but we can’t even mention “Russia” in the consecration asked for by Mary?

I think my other posts have made it clear it’s not the mention of Russia that’s the problem, it’s the second-guessing of the Vatican who have clearly stated that the consecration of 1984 was effective, that is incredibly problematic.

 

[LilyM]

We are so missing the point here.

Any Rosary prayed for souls or the good of the Church is not wasted. Even if one were to pray with an intention born of ignorance, sincere intent itself would deliver Our Lady her bouquet. A prayer for the fulfillment of Our Lady’s request is a prayer for peace. Even if the request has been fulfilled, would it not please Our Lady to know these Rosaries are offered by those who love Holy Mother Church enough to offer them ?

And praying for the Church to do something that, as it’s told u,s has already been done is for its good, or the good of souls, how, exactly? I’m not talking about ignorance, I’m talking about malicious and deliberate mistrust and refusal to accept the Vatican’s word as if they can’t possibly know whether they’ve done it right or anything.

Since the consecration has already been done, to ask that it be done would be about as pleasing to Our Lady as it would for you to be told to wash again a shirt that you’d just freshly washed.

Again, even if those with devotion to Fatima are mistaken, this crusade remains a prayer for peace. Not a single Ave will be in vain.

So please, to the naysayers I must ask

Do you think these Rosaries prayed will build Faith in those who pray them ? Yes or No ?

Since they’re doing so because they doubt the word of the Vatican, no it won’t necessarily build their faith. And certainly not their obedience, which is a fundamental element of faith.

-Do you have any doubt they will please Our Lady ? Yes or No ?

As I said before, if the consecration has already been done why would praying for it to be done please her? It would be like the grumbling of the Israelites in the desert when God gave them food but not the meat they were used to in Egypt.

 

[UnusMilitum]

Again, what exactly will this triumph look like?

Well, we’re supposed to get some peace…I’m pretty sure that’s part of it. Instead, the world is continuously sliding down a dangerously slippery slope away from peace.

And how do we know it hasn’t already begun

YES or NO question: Do you believe that it has begun?

Extra credid: Why?

(ie with the fall of Communism, the resurgence of Orthodoxy in Russia and so on)? And how do we know how long it’s supposed to take, or that more prayers will ‘speed it up’ so to speak?

You keep making this wild claim about the “fall of communisim”. You also keep refering to doubters of the consecration as “conspiracy theorists”. What type of theories have you been reading to come to the conclusion that communism has fallen? It’s embarrassing, really. It’s kind of like that GINORMOUS sign that said “MISSION ACCOMPLISHED” on the USS Abe Lincoln. When did that happen again??? Oh yeah, in 2003…on MAYDAY, MAYDAY…

Did Sr Lucy provide any details of exactly what would happen - ie that the ‘conversion’ of Russia would mean that the Russians would become Catholic?

Not to my knowledge, but this would be a good and safe guess! Just sayin’…

And when these things would happen?

No, but it would stand to reason that after fulfilling the BVM’s request things in the world would get BETTER (!!!) and not worse

I find it interesting that no-one has bothered to answer this question.

And yet you find it convenient not to answer ones pointed in your direction.

Clearly it must be more pleasant to buy into conspiracy theories.

Clearly…

…But it must be almost as pleasant not to question the authorities, cuz, you know, they’ve never been wrong before.

 

[LilyM]

…But it must be almost as pleasant not to question the authorities, cuz, you know, they’ve never been wrong before.

Sr Lucia certainly didn’t question the Church authorites - not because it was more pleasant, but because it was more obedient, which is in fact UNpleasant. It’s pleasant to fight for what you believe in and puff yourself up with the pride of being right. Not so easy to think you’re right but stick your neck in His yoke of obedience.

She didn’t even question when they refused to believe that she’d really seen Our Lady, which on the contrary must have been very painful and difficult for her. And in that instance they were palpably wrong and she certainly knew she was right.

How much less would she have questioned them on an issue like this if she’d been in the position you and I are in of not even having that personal knowledge to tell us that they are wrong!

 

[Dempsey1919]

Why has Bishop Fellay asked the Catholic world to pray for this intention?

This has nothing to do with the situation that the SSPX finds itself in. I don’t know much about Fatima because I don’t bother much with private revelations.

**Can someone please explain why Fellay has chosen this intention? **

 

[BrendanD]

They have a different interpretation of an optional private revelation than the Pope. Somehow, this becomes disobedience and disloyalty just because it’s the SSPX involved. I have a feeling that if it were anyone else, all the comments would just be that apparitions are of optional belief, they are not doctrinal, nobody is required to have any certain beliefs about them, etc.

Many, many people on this site have stated that they don’t believe in Fatima at all. Why aren’t they chastised for “calling the Pope a liar”

 

[LilyM]

They have a different interpretation of an optional private revelation than the Pope. Somehow, this becomes disobedience and disloyalty just because it’s the SSPX involved. I have a feeling that if it were anyone else, all the comments would just be that apparitions are of optional belief, they are not doctrinal, nobody is required to have any certain beliefs about them, etc.

Many, many people on this site have stated that they don’t believe in Fatima at all. Why aren’t they chastised for “calling the Pope a liar”

I repeat, this is not about the SSPX. Neither is it about whether Fatima is true or not, but whether certain Cardinals lied in claiming things were done and said re Fatima that they knew were not.

As an analogy, you can’t be a liar if you don’t believe that Our Lady appeared at Guadalupe (as long as you allow others the right to believe), but you can be a liar if you claim that a church was never built there in accord with Our Lady’s alleged instructions, when that church very clearly was built, and can still be visited there to this day. The first is a matter entirely of opinion, the second much more a matter of fact. See the important difference?

Have you read the threads on here about Fr Gruner, of fatima.org fame, who to my knowledge is unaffiliated with the SSPX? They are about as vitriolic as anything I’ve seen here and on very much the same theme - and, shockingly, don’t mention the SSPX at all!!

 

[BrendanD]

I repeat, this is not about the SSPX. Neither is it about whether Fatima is true or not, but whether certain Cardinals lied in claiming things were done and said re Fatima that they knew were not.

You can’t be a liar if you don’t believe in Fatima, but you can be a liar if you deny that the Pope approved it when he very clearly did. See the important difference?

Have you read the threads on here about Fr Gruner, of fatima.org fame, who to my knowledge is unaffiliated with the SSPX? They are about as vitriolic as anything I’ve seen here and on very much the same theme - and, shockingly, don’t mention the SSPX at all!!

I know a little bit about the Fatima theories, not a whole lot. I also know that Mother Angelica believes that the third secret of Fatima has not been released. But nobody here would dare call her a malicious, disobedient, disloyal, conspiracy theorist for it. Those lovely comments are reserved for SSPXers.

 

[pnewton]

Many, many people on this site have stated that they don’t believe in Fatima at all. Why aren’t they chastised for “calling the Pope a liar”

I haven’t done it because I haven’t seen it.

I do not know what you mean by not believe in Fatima. That it doesn’t not exist? That it is not an approved revelation? Neither makes any sense. Also, I need to retract my statement. The thought did not occur to me, because it seemed so foreign to what I think, but the statements made by the SSPX do not have to mean that John Paul II was a liar. It could also mean that he was just wrong when he said the consecration had been done. Of course since he is the one who did it, it would also mean he was incompetent, lazy or somehow messed up. I do not get it, but yes there exists another possibility. Since I was wrong once, I could be wrong again and there could be another explanation I do not see. Either way, I will decline from joining in this effort.

 

[Dempsey1919]

They have a different interpretation of an optional private revelation than the Pope.

I can’t understand why Bishop Fellay has initiated a Rosary Crusade for this purpose. He’s asking his followers to pray for an optional private revelation to come true. There are far better things he could have asked us to pray for, such as an end to abortion, the full reunion of the SSPX with the Church, a better interpretation of Vatican II etc.

 

[LilyM]

I know a little bit about the Fatima theories, not a whole lot. I also know that Mother Angelica believes that the third secret of Fatima has not been released. But nobody here would dare call her a malicious, disobedient, disloyal, conspiracy theorist for it. Those lovely comments are reserved for SSPXers.

Of course they’re not reserved for the SSPX - much worse has been said about Fr Gruner, as you can see by searching any thread about him on here.

As for Mother Angelica, she certainly hasn’t been starting up Rosary crusades for the intent of having the Third Secret revealed or Russia consecrated, so it’s hardly a fair comparison. Has she even made any comments about the matter since the Cardinals spoke out?

 

[pnewton]

I repeat, this is not about the SSPX. Neither is it about whether Fatima is true or not, but whether certain Cardinals lied in claiming things were done and said re Fatima that they knew were not.

At least with this rosary the SSPX is not claiming conspiracy and cover-up.