New SSPX Rosary Crusade

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Dempsey1919 said:
I can’t understand why Bishop Fellay has initiated a Rosary Crusade for this purpose. He’s asking his followers to pray for an optional private revelation to come true.
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Again, in their defense, we all do this. Most of the time we pray there are better things we could ask God for. In fact, it is part of being a Christian that we pray always and for everything. It is not a balance to pray only for the critical thing. Since we do not agree with their premise, there is good reason not to mess with this whole affair. If it is a waste of time, it is their time to waste.
 
pnewton said:
At least with this rosary the SSPX is not claiming conspiracy and cover-up.
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Not in so many words, of course - they wouldn’t be game.

As you’ve said, though, there’s no way this could be taken as anything other than an insult to JP2 (an accusation of either incompetence or laziness) and/or his officialdom (whether through the same, or because they outright lied), not to mention Sr Lucia as well.
 
Dempsey1919 said:
I can’t understand why Bishop Fellay has initiated a Rosary Crusade for this purpose. He’s asking his followers to pray for an optional private revelation to come true. There are far better things he could have asked us to pray for, such as an end to abortion, the full reunion of the SSPX with the Church, a better interpretation of Vatican II etc.
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There are so many things wrong with this. Do you typically judge people’s prayer intentions to decide whether or not they’re praying for the most important thing they could be? Do you critique the selections for the Prayers of the Faithful at Mass and make suggestions about what they should pray for instead? What makes you think they aren’t praying for the other issues you mentioned anyway?
As you’ve said, though, there’s no way this could be taken as anything other than an insult to JP2 (an accusation of either incompetence or laziness) and/or his officialdom (whether through the same, or because they outright lied), not to mention Sr Lucia as well.
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Right, as before, when the SSPX does it, it’s an “insult” to JP2. But when Mother Angelica says exactly the same thing, it’s perfectly acceptable. A public television interview broadcast to the whole world is less insulting than leading a rosary crusade. I give up, don’t know how else to explain this :confused:
 
Again, in their defense, we all do this. Most of the time we pray there are better things we could ask God for. In fact, it is part of being a Christian that we pray always and for everything. It is not a balance to pray only for the critical thing. Since we do not agree with their premise, there is good reason not to mess with this whole affair. If it is a waste of time, it is their time to waste.
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If Fellay’s prayers are granted and the Holy Father consecrated Russia to the Immaculate Heart, what does he think will happen? What will the “triumpth of the Immaculate Heart” bring about? Fellay must have a reason for wanting to pray 12,000 Rosaries for this intention.
 
LilyM said:
Not in so many words, of course - they wouldn’t be game.

As you’ve said, though, there’s no way this could be taken as anything other than an insult to JP2 …
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There is no other answer that I see so far. I am curious if anyone has any alternatives. I have been wrong once this thread. I also know that as much as the SSPX had conflict with John Paul II (I will stop short of saying animostiy), I have great admiration for the man I call John Paul the Great.
 
BrendanD said:
Right, as before, when the SSPX does it, it’s an “insult” to JP2. But when Mother Angelica says exactly the same thing, it’s perfectly acceptable. A public television interview broadcast to the whole world is less insulting than leading a rosary crusade. I give up, don’t know how else to explain this :confused:
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And Bishop Fellay’s statement is no less public.

You’re reading things into my post that aren’t there. Perfectly acceptable? I didn’t say that at all. I didn’t even think it. I wouldn’t find any disagreement of hers with the Vatican a laudable quality in one vowed to obedience as she is.

Again, though, they are NOT exactly comparable situations.

Put it this way - imagine someone telling you they think you’re wrong. Which is essentially what Mother Angelica did.

Then imagine that same person telling you ‘not only do I think you’re wrong, I’m going to pray real hard, and get a million Rosaries prayed by people around the world for you, with the intent that you REALISE you’re wrong and come around to my way of thinking’. Which is essentially what Bishop Fellay is doing.

There’s a big difference in the level of arrogance and insult - much more in the second as opposed to the first.
 
LilyM said:
Put it this way - imagine someone telling you they think you’re wrong. Which is essentially what Mother Angelica did.

Then imagine that same person telling you ‘not only do I think you’re wrong, I’m going to pray real hard, and get a million Rosaries prayed by people around the world for you, with the intent that you REALISE you’re wrong and come around to my way of thinking’. Which is essentially what Bishop Fellay is doing.

There’s a big difference in the level of arrogance and insult - much more in the second as opposed to the first.
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Sorry, I guess I just don’t think that praying for an intention is so insulting. “Let’s pray for the consecration of Russia” does not translate to “let’s pray for everyone to point out how wrong the pope is.” There’s no need to change the bishop’s words into something he did not say, that is no way to treat a clergyman. When it comes down to it, they are free to disagree with Vatican about this issue.

People are saying “they should stop praying for this intention and pray for abortion instead.” I could equally say, why are we discussing SSPX’s “disobedience” about a private revelation, when we have bishops preaching that Christ did not die for our sins? It goes both ways.
 
There are so many things wrong with this. Do you typically judge people’s prayer intentions to decide whether or not they’re praying for the most important thing they could be? Do you critique the selections for the Prayers of the Faithful at Mass and make suggestions about what they should pray for instead? What makes you think they aren’t praying for the other issues you mentioned anyway?
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Firstly, I am not judging the personal prayer intentions of Bishop Fellay. I am questioning his reasons for asking the SSPX and the Catholic world to offer 12,000 Rosaries for his intention. Afterall, Russia was consecrated to the Immaculate Heart by John Paul II and this was attested to by Sr. Lucia herself! By instituting this prayer intention, Bishop Fellay is calling John Paul’s consecration into question, and he is calling Sr. Lucia a liar. Perhaps most importantly, he is showing his support for conspiracy theories.

Secondly, I never question the Prayers of the Faithful at Mass. The prayer intentions at Mass are chosen by the celebrant and by people within my parish. These are the prayers of my entire parish, they are not the prayer intentions of the priest alone. We all participate. The third Rosary Crusade revolves around the prayer intentions and personal beliefs of one man. These beliefs concern a private revelation and call into question the acts of both John Paul II and Sr. Lucia. They also show support to conspiracy theories. Furthermore, this prayer intention puts pressure on Pope Benedict to do another consecration, which could be interpreted as official support for people such as Fr. Gruner and other conspiracy theorists within the Church.

Lastly, this Rosary Crusade has one intention, not several. While the SSPX may be praying for the other issues I mentioned, Bishop Fellay has not included these in his intention for the Third Rosary Crusade. Bishop Fellay has requested 12,000 Rosaries for one intention only: the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

Why has Bishop Fellay requested 12,000 Rosaries for this intention? What does he think a further consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart will achieve?

Nobody seems to have an answer to this question. I want to know why I should pray the Rosary for this intention.
 
How was John Paul II consecrating Russia not an insult to Pius XII who already consecrated Russia?
 
BrendanD said:
I’m deleting my response to this…it’s just too ridiculous to discuss. I know it won’t go anywhere.
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It won’t let me edit that, but what I mean is, I end up getting angry every time I post here, so I’d rather just leave it alone.
 
It won’t let me edit that, but what I mean is, I end up getting angry every time I post here, so I’d rather just leave it alone.
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I don’t want to make you angry. I just want an answer to my question:

What does Bishop Fellay think a re-consecration of Russia will achieve? What does he think the triumph of the Immaculate Heart will bring about?

If I knew the answer to this question, I’d probably pray my Rosary for this intention. As I said, I don’t really bother with private revelations. For this reason, I know very little about the Fatima apparitions.
 
Dempsey1919 said:
I don’t want to make you angry. I just want an answer to my question:

What does Bishop Fellay think a re-consecration of Russia will achieve? What does he think the triumph of the Immaculate Heart will bring about?

If I knew the answer to this question, I’d probably pray my Rosary for this intention. As I said, I don’t really bother with private revelations. For this reason, I know very little about the Fatima apparitions.
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I can answer that. My understanding is that he thinks the consecration requested at Fatima has not been done yet, and that finishing it will bring about conversion of many people and peace in Russia.
 
I can answer that. My understanding is that he thinks the consecration requested at Fatima has not been done yet, and that finishing it will bring about conversion of many people and peace in Russia.
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Thanks Brendan.

Lets hope that this brings about the conversion of many souls within the Church! We all could do with grace from God to help us continually accept the faith in it’s entirety. I hope that this brings about the conversion of those who openly disobey the Holy Father, and dissent from the teachings of the Catholic Church, especially the teachings on abortion and artificial contraception.
 
Dempsey1919 said:
Thanks Brendan.

Lets hope that this brings about the conversion of many souls within the Church! We all could do with grace from God to help us continually accept the faith in it’s entirety. I hope that this brings about the conversion of those who openly disobey the Holy Father, and dissent from the teachings of the Catholic Church, especially the teachings on abortion and artificial contraception.
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Amen
 
BrendanD said:
It won’t let me edit that, but what I mean is, I end up getting angry every time I post here, so I’d rather just leave it alone.
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If it makes you feel better, you helped me out today by showing me an error I had. Nothing is worth losing one’s peace, but it should be comforting to know when one helps bring peace.
 
pnewton said:
If it makes you feel better, you helped me out today by showing me an error I had. Nothing is worth losing one’s peace, but it should be comforting to know when one helps bring peace.
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Thank you 🙂 The problem with internet debates is that they tend to keep going on and on without resolution even after everyone has made their point. I feel better just leaving it alone instead of going through that 🙂
 
abirdrrl said:
How was John Paul II consecrating Russia not an insult to Pius XII who already consecrated Russia?
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Neither Sr Lucia nor the Church hierarchy of his time appear to have considered Pius XII’s attempt at a consecration to have fulfilled Our Lady’s request. I don’t think even Pius XII claimed afterwards that it had. It’s no more an insult to say he tried but didn’t succeed than to say that the crew of Apollo 13 tried but didn’t succeed in their mission (ie do all the stuff on the moon that had been planned before it left the ground).

Quite the contrary - there was a sense of urgency in John Paul II’s efforts to get it done (two attempts in three years) that suggest that he knew full well that both Pius’ efforts and his own first effort hadn’t fulfilled it.
 
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