NEW YORK: Lesbian [Episcopal ] Priest Nominee on List to be Next Bishop of New York

[ProVobis]

Old Catholic, Orthodox, Polish Catholic, all believe that the bread is tranformed into the actual body of Christ and the blood is actually transformed into the blood. Anglicans believe in a form of consubstantiation, in which the bread is still present, but Christ “becomes one with it”. If the priest believes that he is simply calling on Christ to become present in the bread and wine, then the Eucharist is not consecrated.

During the 60’s there were growing doubts about the validity of the Mass as it was being translated, especially at the consecration. One problem was the “for all” translation which is being fixed. The other problem was that in the English “This is my body,” the ambiguous “this” appears to be referring to the bread, which justifies a heretical consubstantiation belief. Catholics, of course, believe in the transubstantiation and the Latin “Hoc est enim Corpus Meum” places no doubt that the “Hoc” (being in the same gender and number) is the “Corpus Meum” of Christ and not the “panem” (bread) which would have led to “Hic est enim corpus Meum” which it definitely isn’t. There is very little the English (or any language which has vague demonstrative pronouns) can do to express that bread becomes not bread any more but the body of Christ. Just saying.

 

[nightranger]

Really, this whole thread just confirms that the Roman Catholic church is the “One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.”
The Episcopal church is just another spin-off Protestant religion, still using the trappings of the catholic church, still using the same apostle’s creed, still claiming valid sacraments, still calling their religious service a “mass.”
All the while openly flaunting the sacraments of marriage, holy orders and the Eucharist, to suit their own tastes. Doesn’t surprise me at all.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I don’t know what Episcopal Church you’ve been taking Communion at, but in my parish we use wafers and wine.

thank you gamewell!! i was waiting for someone else to notice her mistake. evidently she doesn’t know as much about the episcopal church as she thinks because all i have known the episcopal churches to use in holy communion are wafers and wine. i have never ever seen crackers and grape juice!

 

[7_Sorrows]

They have crackers and grape juice, not the Blessed Sacrament.

i am sorry 1holycatholic, but you really shouldn’t make comments like this if you don’t know what you are talking about. you are totally incorrect that the episcopal church has crackers and grape juice.
perhaps someday, you will be able to visit a parish that uses the anglican use mass and see how beautiful it is. you are very uncharitable with your posts and i can only imagine any episcopalian reading this thread would think twice about converting to the Catholic church because of how mean spirited some of the posts in this thread are. i am a Catholic of only 3 years, but i hope i am learning a lesson the type of Catholic i don’t want to become.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Really, this whole thread just confirms that the Roman Catholic church is the “One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.”
The Episcopal church is just another spin-off Protestant religion, still using the trappings of the catholic church, still using the same apostle’s creed, still claiming valid sacraments, still calling their religious service a “mass.”
All the while openly flaunting the sacraments of marriage, holy orders and the Eucharist, to suit their own tastes. Doesn’t surprise me at all.

if i read one more post like this, i might truly regret being Catholic. i didn’t attend church for 25 years because of disagreements like this.

 

[1holycatholic]

i am sorry 1holycatholic, but you really shouldn’t make comments like this if you don’t know what you are talking about. you are totally incorrect that the episcopal church has crackers and grape juice.
perhaps someday, you will be able to visit a parish that uses the anglican use mass and see how beautiful it is. you are very uncharitable with your posts and i can only imagine any episcopalian reading this thread would think twice about converting to the Catholic church because of how mean spirited some of the posts in this thread are. i am a Catholic of only 3 years, but i hope i am learning a lesson the type of Catholic i don’t want to become.

Catholics that have Anglican Use Mass are in fact Catholic and they receive the Blessed Sacrament.

It doesn’t matter what Anglicans and Episcopalians use, or what they call it, they do not receive the Blessed Sacrament.

I’m sorry to hear that you have trouble with the Catholic teaching regarding the Blessed Sacrament the very source and summit of the faith.

 

[ringil]

if i read one more post like this, i might truly regret being Catholic. i didn’t attend church for 25 years because of disagreements like this.

Oh don’t go there 7 Sorrows. The tone expressed on CAF in no way resembles the Church in real life. I have never met Catholics who express themselves like some on this forum.

CAF is not the Catholic Church.

God Bless.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Catholics that have Anglican Use Mass are in fact Catholic and they receive the Blessed Sacrament.

It doesn’t matter what Anglicans and Episcopalians use, or what they call it, they do not receive the Blessed Sacrament.

I’m sorry to hear that you have trouble with the Catholic teaching regarding the Blessed Sacrament the very source and summit of the faith.

again, you are out of line 1holycatholic. i do not have trouble with the Catholic teaching regarding the Blessed Sacrament.

yes, the Anglican Use Mass will have anglicans who have converted to Catholicism.
and they will receive the Blessed Sacrament.

i don’t believe that the Pope would have offered an Anglican Use Mass if he did not feel that the Anglicans have much in common with the Catholics. i for one, do not beleve in the ordination of women as priests or bishops and i defiinitely don’t agree with men or women in same sex relationships to be ordained as priests or bishops and those were 2 big reasons why i could not remain in the Episcopal church.
however, there were also many good things about the Anglican communion or i don’t believe that the Pope would have approved of and permitted the Anglican Use Mass.
i don’t have a problem with the Catholic teaching regarding the Blessed Sacrament, but i do have a problem with someone making inaccurate statements about a church that they really don’t know anything about.
maybe it is good there will be a separate Anglican Use Mass because i wonder the reception the Anglicans would receive once they have converted and were to attend a regular parish. if other Catholics feel like you do, my thought is that they would be looked down on and never accepted as a true Catholic, but as an anglican or episcopal convert.
be careful, because the person sitting beside you on Sunday or behind you could be an episcopalian or an anglican visiting the Catholic church or even someone who has recently converted. and believe me, i feel more Catholic than many of the Catholics who i have met since joining the church who DO NOT agree with many of the teachings of the Catholic church.
this will be my last post on this thread.

 

[CMatt25]

Oh don’t go there 7 Sorrows. The tone expressed on CAF in no way resembles the Church in real life. I have never met Catholics who express themselves like some on this forum.

CAF is not the Catholic Church.

God Bless.

I sometimes wonder though how many who come here to observe and read, realize CAF is not owned by the Catholic Church and is instead a private internet forum business.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8199777&postcount=2

 

[nightranger]

if i read one more post like this, i might truly regret being Catholic. i didn’t attend church for 25 years because of disagreements like this.

Then what do you attend church for? If you regret being catholic when others (Episcopalians in this case) try to pervert the true church, and you have no problem with that, i wouldn’t go to the catholic church either. Perhaps you will be happier at a Protestant church where you are free to choose which doctrines you believe in, and those you don’t.

 

[CatholicBoy1957]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7 Sorrows

New International Version (©1984)
Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.

It’s not hard to lose your faith when there’s not much to lose.

That goes for everyone, of course, including the Episcopalians that we discuss.

 

[centurionguard]

:coffeeread:

I wouldn’t be surprised within a few years down the road you see a separation in there ranks with the Episcopals Faithful breaking off into separate churches with some even possibly joining the Catholic Church.

Just look at other divisional Anglican and United Church associations over the past two decades and what has happen in their ranks with homosexual and lesbian clergy leaders.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

thank you gamewell!! i was waiting for someone else to notice her mistake. evidently she doesn’t know as much about the episcopal church as she thinks because all i have known the episcopal churches to use in holy communion are wafers and wine. i have never ever seen crackers and grape juice!

They’re pretty common in Baptist congregations. They hand out oyster crackers and little plastic thimbles of grape juice.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

I sometimes wonder though how many who come here to observe and read, realize CAF is not owned by the Catholic Church and is instead a private internet forum business.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8199777&postcount=2

That is owned by a very down-the-line Catholic apologist who’s work caused me to come “home to Rome”.

Thank you Karl.

 

[1holycatholic]

I see you have subverted God and assigned me a gender.

thank you gamewell!! i was waiting for someone else to notice her mistake. evidently she doesn’t know as much about the episcopal church as she thinks because all i have known the episcopal churches to use in holy communion are wafers and wine. i have never ever seen crackers and grape juice!

That’s not the point. The point is that Episcopalians don’t have Holy Communion. You want to play semantic games instead of addressing the painful truth.

 

[1holycatholic]

They’re pretty common in Baptist congregations. They hand out oyster crackers and little plastic thimbles of grape juice.

:yup:
And they throw the leftovers in the trash, because it’s not the Blessed Sacrament.

 

[ringil]

That is owned by a very down-the-line Catholic apologist who’s work caused me to come “home to Rome”.

Thank you Karl.

Well the owner may be mainstream but the views dominant on CAF do not accurately represent the larger Church population. Yes, CAF does hold true to views on abortion, contracention more than the Church in general, and this is very laudable, but there is much that CAF members put out there which is very fringe and makes the Church appear quite different than it actually is.

If a lurker was to think that by reading CAF posts they would have an accurate picture of their local parish- they would be very mistaken indeed.

THis post is meant for lurkers certainly. Check out your local parish- there you will get a real picture of the “people in the pews”.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Well the owner may be mainstream but the views dominant on CAF do not accurately represent the larger Church population. Yes, CAF does hold true to views on abortion, contracention more than the Church in general, and this is very laudable, but there is much that CAF members put out there which is very fringe and makes the Church appear quite different than it actually is.

If a lurker was to think that by reading CAF posts they would have an accurate picture of their local parish- they would be very mistaken indeed.

THis post is meant for lurkers certainly. Check out your local parish- there you will get a real picture of the “people in the pews”.

You mean that the bulk of the people here are not in line with Church teaching on embryonic destruction for stem cell harvestation? Cloning? Euthanasia? Any other type of marriage other than one man/one woman? Subsidiarity and the proper role of government? Collectivism?

 

[CatholicBoy1957]

In addition to abortion and contraception, you could also point out that those who actually attend Mass are on the fringe, the bottom 20 percent. If Catholics who believe the Church’s teaching on abortion and contraception are on the fringe, that would mean that those Catholics who actually believe in Catholicism, ie., Magisterium, not private interpretation, are on the fringe.

Well the owner may be mainstream but the views dominant on CAF do not accurately represent the larger Church population. Yes, CAF does hold true to views on abortion, contracention more than the Church in general, and this is very laudable, but there is much that CAF members put out there which is very fringe and makes the Church appear quite different than it actually is.

If a lurker was to think that by reading CAF posts they would have an accurate picture of their local parish- they would be very mistaken indeed.

THis post is meant for lurkers certainly. Check out your local parish- there you will get a real picture of the “people in the pews”.

 

[ringil]

Subsidiarity and the proper role of government? Collectivism?

Well you had me up until here. These issues aren’t cut and dry and surely you realize that. There is no one way to definitively apply these principles and say “this is the CATHOLIC” approach.

Indeed, you and I would likely differ a bit on what we see as the most “Catholic” application of these issues.

But yes, embryonic research, cloning, true marraige are essential Catholic issues as well. Still, that’s not the great divide in approach between CAF and the real time Church I am referring to.

Should I go there onto fringe issues-
Celebration of the Crusades- not historical analysis but glorification
Literal interpretation of Genesis
Attempts to even give serious discussion to geo-centrism
Puritanical clothing for women- not modest- I’m talking puritanical.
Frequent discussion of forumites feeling they are being attacked by demons
discussions of non-approved apparitions and visionaries
distrust of modern psychology

Yes, we may disagree on some of these issues but they are hardly the stuff to come up in a real life parish situation. They are fringe issues and odd fixations. The stuff of Catholic hobbyists not simple practicing Catholics.

Plus there is an undercurrent of anger and self-righteousness in discussions of many faith-based issues. Folks will say this is boldly proclaiming the truth but their words show anger and impetuousness.

CAF is not an accurate depiction of the average American parish.