NEW YORK: Lesbian [Episcopal ] Priest Nominee on List to be Next Bishop of New York

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1holycatholic said:
Fideism is antithetical to Catholicism, but it was a lynchpin for Luther and his Protestant rebellion.

If Protestants have certitude that their particular denomination is true then the Church and all other Protestant denominations are necessarily false.
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Just to jump in where “angels fear to tread” (I love that expression)…it is not “certitude” in any religious denomination or insitution…it is certitude in Christ that we have…I am a Friend because for me Quakerism embodies the best expression of what Christianity is and calls us to a holiness of life and fellowship with Christ and His People I just don’t find anywhere else…not to say that kind of fellowship is not available anywhere else…in my own fiinite experience of life…I haven’t found it any where else. It is Christ and Christ alone that we have “certitude”.
 
1holycatholic said:
Fideism is antithetical to Catholicism, but it was a lynchpin for Luther and his Protestant rebellion.

If Protestants have certitude that their particular denomination is true then the Church and all other Protestant denominations are necessarily false.
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That makes no sense to me. If they are sure they are right, then we must be wrong and vice versa? In my experience, lots of people have certitude about lots of things, and many of them turn out to be wrong. Having certitude does not guarantee that one is correct, it just means one is sure he is correct. If you are using “certitude” to mean “is correct,” then you would be right, but certitude means “the state of being or feeling certain” not “the state of being correct.”
 
TMC said:
That makes no sense to me. If they are sure they are right, then we must be wrong and vice versa? In my experience, lots of people have certitude about lots of things, and many of them turn out to be wrong. Having certitude does not guarantee that one is correct, it just means one is sure he is correct. If you are using “certitude” to mean “is correct,” then you would be right, but certitude means “the state of being or feeling certain” not “the state of being correct.”
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I’m speaking of certitude as a matter of philosophy which I assumed was obvious by the terms used: metaphysical certitude etc…
 
TMC said:
That makes no sense to me. If they are sure they are right, then we must be wrong and vice versa? In my experience, lots of people have certitude about lots of things, and many of them turn out to be wrong. Having certitude does not guarantee that one is correct, it just means one is sure he is correct. If you are using “certitude” to mean “is correct,” then you would be right, but certitude means “the state of being or feeling certain” not “the state of being correct.”
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:confused:
Do you deny the law of non-contradiction?
 
1holycatholic said:
I’m speaking of certitude as a matter of philosophy which I assumed was obvious by the terms used: metaphysical certitude etc…
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So this whole drill has been just a semantic game? I am using the ordinary english language meaning of the term. I am not aware that it has a significantly different meaning in the field of philosophy. If you want to use it in a different way you should say that. Even if you are using it that way, I don’t know how you can say that adherents to other faiths can’t possibly believe they are experiencing certitude.
 
TMC said:
So this whole drill has been just a semantic game? I am using the ordinary english language meaning of the term. I am not aware that it has a significantly different meaning in the field of philosophy. If you want to use it in a different way you should say that. Even if you are using it that way, I don’t know how you can say that adherents to other faiths can’t possibly believe they are experiencing certitude.
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I’m using the Christian understanding of the term. I wouldn’t be so careless to think of the term in the vernacular where cars have “soul” etc., after all this is a Christian forum.

What historical certitude do Protestants have that Christ established tens of thousands of ever fragmenting Protestant denominations with contradictory doctrines?
 
louis91766 said:
Yes, I would deny that it applies to some questions.Something may not be either 100% right or 100% wrong, but partially right and partially wrong.
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Is the Catholic Eucharist the True Body and Blood of Christ?

Is Baptism essential for salvation?

Is marriage an unbreakable covenant between a man and a woman?

Is the Pope the Vicar of Christ?

Is the Catholic Church the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church?

These are yes or no questions. You cannot be 95% on them. They are all hotly disputed between our version of Christianity and other versions of Christianity. Either they are right, which necessarily makes us wrong, or vice versa.
 
1holycatholic said:
I’m using the Christian understanding of the term. I wouldn’t be so careless to think of the term in the vernacular where cars have “soul” etc., after all this is a Christian forum.

What historical certitude do Protestants have that Christ established tens of thousands of ever fragmenting Protestant denominations with contradictory doctrines?
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You would have to ask a Protestant that question. My only point in this conversation is that it is both uncharitable and incorrect for you to suggest that only Catholics can truly have faith. The implication of that position is that Protestants, Jews, Muslims and others are all either fools or charlatans, and that is neither a Catholic nor a Christian approach.
 
TMC said:
You would have to ask a Protestant that question. My only point in this conversation is that it is both uncharitable and incorrect for you to suggest that only Catholics can truly have faith. The implication of that position is that Protestants, Jews, Muslims and others are all either fools or charlatans, and that is neither a Catholic nor a Christian approach.
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There can’t be more than one true faith.
 
TMC said:
You would have to ask a Protestant that question. My only point in this conversation is that it is both uncharitable and incorrect for you to suggest that only Catholics can truly have faith. The implication of that position is that Protestants, Jews, Muslims and others are all either fools or charlatans, and that is neither a Catholic nor a Christian approach.
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It is not “certitude” in any organization…it is certitude in Jesus Himself that our trust is placed…it is certitude in the grace and mercy of God found in Jesus of Nazareth.
 
Publisher said:
It is not “certitude” in any organization…it is certitude in Jesus Himself that our trust is placed…it is certitude in the grace and mercy of God found in Jesus of Nazareth.
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Jesus of Nazareth established the Catholic Church and no others. Of that we have certitude.
 
Publisher said:
It is not “certitude” in any organization…it is certitude in Jesus Himself that our trust is placed…it is certitude in the grace and mercy of God found in Jesus of Nazareth.
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Catholics trust in the Church Jesus started, which is the pillar of Truth, which they gates will not prevail against. One Holy Catholic & Apostolic.
 
TMC said:
So this whole drill has been just a semantic game?
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Yeah seems to be pretty much. It’s like when Catholics here say another Catholic is not Catholic or can not identify as one. I think what they really mean is someone might not be as faithful or as practicing a Catholic. But in fact if they know Church teaching and Catholic Church answers like they say they do, they know who is a Catholic.
 
1holycatholic said:
Jesus of Nazareth established the Catholic Church and no others. Of that we have certitude.
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Yes you trust and believe what the Church that claims to be His Church says. And the Catholic faith is what you believe the one true faith to be.
 
CMatt25 said:
Yes you trust and believe what the Church that claims to be His Church says. And the Catholic faith is what you believe the one true faith to be.
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The only Church to have existed since the time of Christ.
 
jam070406 said:
The only Church to have existed since the time of Christ.
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According to Her and how She traces and interprets the time. And even if that were so, there are some who might believe Christ needed to reform so as to keep the gates from prevailing. It is all comes down to a matter of faith and belief. One must even first place a faith and belief in God and the NT Jesus to even begin to reach your conclusion.
 
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