NEW YORK: Lesbian [Episcopal ] Priest Nominee on List to be Next Bishop of New York

  • Thread starter Thread starter 1holycatholic
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
CMatt25 said:
According to Her and how She traces and interprets the time. And even if that were so, there are some who might believe Christ needed to reform so as to keep the gates from prevailing. It is all comes down to a matter of faith and belief. One must even first place a faith and belief in God and the NT Jesus to even begin to reach your conclusion.
Click to expand...
Reform doesn’t come in the form of schism. St. Paul warned of this.
 
CMatt25 said:
According to Her and how She traces and interprets the time.
Click to expand...
No, according to historical fact.
CMatt25 said:
And even if that were so, there are some who might believe Christ needed to reform so as to keep the gates from prevailing. It is all comes down to a matter of faith and belief. One must even first place a faith and belief in God and the NT Jesus to even begin to reach your conclusion.
Click to expand...
Knowledge of the existence of God can be known with certitude from human reason. You can’t have faith in the New Testament without having faith in Christ’s Catholic Church from which it proceeds.
 
1holycatholic said:
There can’t be more than one true faith.
Click to expand...
i am not sure i can agree with that statement. i see Judaism as a true faith. Christianity as a true faith. and i feel that Catholics and protestants are part of the true faith - Christianity.
 
Answers from the Catechism of the Catholic Church
scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
7_Sorrows said:
i am not sure i can agree with that statement.
Click to expand...
"CCC:
816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter’s pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."267

The Second Vatican Council’s Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ’s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation,** that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained.** It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."268
Click to expand...
7 Sorrows said:
i see Judaism as a true faith.
Click to expand...
40.png
CCC:
839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
Click to expand...
7_Sorrows said:
Christianity as a true faith. and i feel that Catholics and protestants are part of the true faith - Christianity.
Click to expand...
40.png
CCC:
838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 **Those “who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.”**323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324
Click to expand...
 
1holycatholic said:
It’s not a horrible argument. I have physical certitude, historical certitude and metaphysical certitude regarding the Catholic Church. Protestants do not have certitude.

Even if you had mentioned the right country in your argument, dissident priests do not invalidate the Church or negate Church teaching.
Click to expand...
I meant to say Austrian, pardon me. I think you proved my point with “Even if you had mentioned the right country in your argument, dissident priests do not invalidate the Church or negate Church teaching”

One Methodist Church that hang gay pride banners don’t reflect the entire Methodist church.
 
SpeakInSilence said:
I meant to say Austrian, pardon me. I think you proved my point with “Even if you had mentioned the right country in your argument, dissident priests do not invalidate the Church or negate Church teaching”

One Methodist Church that hang gay pride banners don’t reflect the entire Methodist church.
Click to expand...
Where does the authority for Methodist teaching come from and who gets to decide what represents the entire Methodist Church?
 
rlg94086 said:
Answers from the Catechism of the Catholic Church
scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
Click to expand...
Why did the true Church say in the original creed that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, then later on the true Church changed its teaching and declared that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and from the Son? How do you apply the principle of noncontradiction to that case? Or when the true Church taught in favor of burning heretics at the stake, to which the true Church is now opposed?
 
louis91766 said:
So there you have it. We don’t have a yes or no answer in some cases.
Click to expand...
No. The answer is yes or no. We just don’t know what it is. Does this teaching contradict something that the non-Catholic congregations teach? Children automatically go to heaven regardless? That is nothing that has been historically taught by the Church.

“And they shall baptise the little children first. And if they can answer for themselves, let them answer. But if they cannot, let their parents answer or someone from their family.”
Hippolytus of Rome, Apostolic Tradition, 21(c. A.D. 215)

“For this reason, moreover, the Church received from the apostles the tradition of baptizing infants too.”
Origen, Homily on Romans, V:9(A.D. 244)

“But in respect of the case of the infants, which you say ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, and that the law of ancient circumcision should be regarded, so that you think one who is just born should not be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day…And therefore, dearest brother, this was our opinion in council, that by us no one ought to be hindered from baptism…we think is to be even more observed in respect of infants and newly-born persons…”
Cyprian,To Fidus, Epistle 58(64):2,6(A.D. 251)

“Have you an infant child? Do not let sin get any opportunity, but let him be sanctified from his childhood; from his very tenderest age let him be consecrated by the Spirit. Fearest thou the Seal on account of the weakness of nature?”
Gregory Nazianzen,Oration on Holy Baptism,40:17(A.D. 381)
 
louis91766 said:
Why did the true Church say in the original creed that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, then later on the true Church changed its teaching and declared that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and from the Son? How do you apply the principle of noncontradiction to that case? Or when the true Church taught in favor of burning heretics at the stake, to which the true Church is now opposed?
Click to expand...
False dichotomy. The Pneumatomachi denied that the Holy Spirit proceeded from the Father. Creeds address particular heresies, they aren’t exhaustive dogmatic declarations. The statement: “the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father” is true and does not deny the doctrine of double Procession.

Likewise, the statement “Jesus is God.” is true and does not deny that the Holy Spirit is God, or that the Father is God. There are plenty of examples of this statement made alone, even by Benedict XVI, yet nobody is claiming that the pope denies that the Father is God or that the Holy Spirit is God.

I’d like to see documentation of Church teaching about burning heretics at the stake.
 
louis91766 said:
Why did the true Church say in the original creed that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, then later on the true Church changed its teaching and declared that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and from the Son? How do you apply the principle of noncontradiction to that case? Or when the true Church taught in favor of burning heretics at the stake, to which the true Church is now opposed?
Click to expand...
Are you trying to claim that everything the Church teaches is changeable and/or optional?
 
rlg94086 said:
Are you trying to claim that everything the Church teaches is changeable and/or optional?
Click to expand...
Some teachings have changed. For example, the teaching that heretics should be burned at the stake. Or that slaves should obey their earthly masters. It is now taught that slavery is wrong.
 
louis91766 said:
Some teachings have changed. For example, the teaching that heretics should be burned at the stake. Or that slaves should obey their earthly masters. It is now taught that slavery is wrong.
Click to expand...
Are you trying to claim that everything the Church teaches is changeable and/or optional?
 
rlg94086 said:
Are you trying to claim that everything the Church teaches is changeable and/or optional?
Click to expand...
Another change in teaching concerns whether or not women are to wear headcovering in Church. Previously it was taught that women are to wear headcovering in Church, but now I see women giving out Holy Communion and yet their heads are uncovered.
 
louis91766 said:
Another change in teaching concerns whether or not women are to wear headcovering in Church. Previously it was taught that women are to wear headcovering in Church, but now I see women giving out Holy Communion and yet their heads are uncovered.
Click to expand...
Are you trying to claim that everything the Church teaches is changeable and/or optional?
 
1holycatholic said:
There can’t be more than one true faith.
Click to expand...
Sure there can. While I am not sure I could agree there is more than one ultimate truth, I am quite sure there are many true faiths. 7 Sorrows even listed some other faiths for you that are truly faiths besides the Catholic faith for those who abide by them. Just as you would say you abide by the Catholic faith.

True faith is the understanding of what one believes the one truth to be. The Catholic faith has its understanding. Episcopalians and Methodists as it is with other Christians, have their faith. The Jewish faithful have their faith. Muslims theirs. And as it goes for Buddhists and so on. We might not all have the understanding of truth exactly right. But these are all true faiths. That is why they’re all called faith.
 
CMatt25 said:
Sure there can. While I am not sure I could agree there is more than one ultimate truth, I am quite sure there are many true faiths. 7 Sorrows even listed some other faiths for you that are truly faiths besides the Catholic faith for those who abide by them. Just as you would say you abide by the Catholic faith.

True faith is the understanding of what one believes the one truth to be. The Catholic faith has its understanding. Episcopalians and Methodists as it is with other Christians, have their faith. The Jewish faithful have their faith. Muslims theirs. And as it goes for Buddhists and so on. We might not all have the understanding of truth exactly right. But these are all true faiths. That is why they’re all called faith.
Click to expand...
There can’t be more than one true faith.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top